00:00the jogan experience and most people are
00:03just not that sophisticated when it
00:05comes to these things if they're betting
00:07using an app or something like that
00:08betting online they're just doing it for
00:10fun they think they could win they got a
00:12feeling they want to bet their team they
00:14want to make the game more exciting and
00:16so those people are basically like
00:21under they're very under research
00:24they're very they don't have like the
00:26full grasp of understanding of the
00:29complexities of Sports gambling cuz it's
00:31a lot more complex than I ever thought
00:33when I was going over your stuff I was
00:34like oh my goodness like this involves
00:36so much time so much time and read this
00:39is not a simple thing as like oh I
00:41follow Sports I think Kansas City's
00:43going to win it's it's not it's
00:45complicated very very complicated and to
00:48win at a level that you won at over your
00:51career and the the numbers like what is
00:53the biggest bet you ever placed I bet $4
00:55half million dollars on New Orleans to
00:58uh to beat the Indianapolis Colts in the
01:00Super Bowl uh that's the biggest bet I
01:02replaced did you win I I I did I won it
01:05I got lucky and I won it you got lucky
01:07on that one well yeah I mean anytime you
01:08win I mean I feel like I'm lucky I mean
01:11it Joe the the world's made up of a lot
01:14of different kind of people as we both
01:15know and uh the uh but no I feel like
01:19anytime I went a B I got lucky I mean
01:21because there's you know uh know I want
01:24to bet and and and the reason I had such
01:27a big bet is what I do Joe
01:30I'm I make a line on the game myself my
01:32prediction of what I feel like the
01:34differential should be independent of
01:35what the EXP completely independent I
01:37okay I don't even look at her line when
01:39I make my line really no that's that's
01:41high level well that's all they
01:43that's all I'm doing the same thing
01:44they're doing right I mean believe me
01:47the the principles that I'm following
01:49and making my line are the same
01:50principles that the handicapper is
01:52making but it's Jo is kind of like
01:54making a cake you know one guy might put
01:56a little bit more flour in than the
01:57other guy does and so that's how we end
02:00up with different you know lines
02:02different numbers so I make a line on
02:05each and every outcome of of the sport
02:08sports that I'm involved and you betting
02:10this on the individual players their
02:13overall career what age they are how
02:15they've been playing this season who the
02:18coaches all the different factors
02:20whether or not there's in inplayer
02:23disputes in between player like there's
02:25a lot of things to take into
02:27consideration again I put it all in the
02:30book and and you're right there's a lot
02:31of different factors that go into that
02:33uh some more important others but
02:35there's a lot of factors and uh and then
02:39is the larger the differential between
02:41the number they make and my opinion the
02:44larger bet I make there has to be a
02:47minimum of a certain amount
02:50of of separation or I won't make a bet
02:54but the larger the differen is between
02:57my opinion and their opin opinion the
02:59larger bet I'm make so I'll just give
03:01you a rough example let's say the NFL
03:05say let's say I would have to have a
03:07minimum of say a point and a half
03:08differential from the line they make
03:10from the line I I make point and half
03:13two points well that would I would make
03:16I would bet one unit okay that would be
03:18the smallest bet I would make but for
03:22each Half Point you would I so if if I
03:26made the line on a game six and they had
03:27it eight I would bet one unit
03:30if they made it 8 and A2 I would bet two
03:32units if they made it nine I would bet
03:33three units if they made it 9 and a half
03:36I would bet four units they made it 10 I
03:37would be five units well the New Orleans
03:39game you asked me about which I couldn't
03:41believe was a Super Bowl game and this
03:44type of year we never get this kind of
03:46differential uh but I had like a
03:48seven-point differential between the
03:50line I made and the line they made they
03:52made Indianapolis seven and I thought
03:55the game should be pick them and when I
03:58saw the last I couldn't believe it I
04:00went back I said well maybe haven't made
04:02a mistake here went back redid it redid
04:04it and I pick them so that's how I ended
04:06up with such a large bet when you go
04:08through something like how much time are
04:10we talking like if you're placing a $4
04:11million bet on a Super Bowl game how
04:15researching well but but that time of
04:18the year I mean all of our research is
04:19done I mean it's this last game here
04:23okay the only changes you're going to
04:24make from the last games that these two
04:26teams played or in the Super Bowl is
04:28okay are the any players injured that
04:30didn't you you which you have to account
04:33for and uh you know clearly if they're
04:37playing on a different surface or
04:39something maybe than you know than the
04:41teams normally do it's very small I mean
04:44the second the game's over uh we can
04:47have the line on the next game within 6
04:50hours it's not a problem or less I mean
04:53unless involves you know some injury or
04:55something that you know may take us
04:57until we get some more clarity on that
04:59but I'm going to know real close to
05:01where I'm at frankly as soon as the
05:03game's over almost within an hour or two
05:06now there's been some times over the
05:08years where referees specifically in
05:11basketball games have been caught doing
05:14things you know calling penalties trying
05:17to swing the game in favor of another
05:20team and they get caught for it and
05:22busted how much do you think that goes
05:24on today like how how much do you think
05:27like referees are bought off or maybe
05:29perhaps they're betting themselves I
05:31don't think that exists at all Joel
05:33really and if it does it's very very
05:35small but it has been right think have
05:37happened in the past and but but but but
05:39you know who uncovered each and every
05:41one of those gamblers people betting
05:43Sports and and bookmakers they're the
05:45ones that made law enforcement aware of
05:47these things uh because at the end of
05:50the day whether you're a casino or
05:52whether you're better the Integrity of
05:53sports is the most important thing in
05:55the world to you a good thing about
05:57what's going on today there's probably
06:00uh more transparency and betting today
06:02than there ever has been all all of the
06:05legalized gamblings taking place they
06:08have everyone's account information they
06:10know everything you're doing and the
06:12other thing about betting on sports Joe
06:14unlike say Wall Street it is a small
06:17Market much much smaller Market than
06:19Wall Street so if you go out and you
06:21make a sizeable bed in
06:23sports uh the line's going to move and
06:27uh it's it's impossible to hide it okay
06:31now there's people such as myself and
06:33I'm not the only one there's a lot of
06:35people in the sports business if they
06:37see a line on the game move a half a
06:40point a point or whatever they know who
06:43caused that line to move 99% of the time
06:46okay I give you an example the Arizona
06:48State situation that came up years ago I
06:51don't if you remember that one or not it
06:52was their basketball team and they were
06:55fixing games and then what
06:58happened um there was a bunch of guys
07:00that came to Las Vegas and uh they bet
07:03on one of these games the line moved six
07:05or seven points I bet on the other side
07:08of it because you know uh the line I
07:11make and of course I had no idea that
07:13you know they were shaving points and I
07:16lost the bet well they came back to town
07:19a little bit later and they brought six
07:21seven guys and they were going to all
07:23the different sports books so they were
07:25betting and the line moov six or seven
07:26points again game line on games don't
07:28move six or seven points points well the
07:30second time I didn't bet uh because and
07:33sure enough they won a game by like 20
07:35again they came back the third time and
07:39but now I'm taping the games I'm looking
07:40at the games they came back the third
07:42time and they did the same thing well uh
07:46I called uh uh Steve dearm who was the
07:50head of game and control uh for the game
07:53and control board he was the the law
07:56enforcement part of game and control and
07:58told him what was going on and uh they
08:02dispatched some agents they tried to get
08:05these people to talk to them they left
08:07Las Vegas went back to Arizona and then
08:10later on I think one of them got kind of
08:12caught up in a drug deal and uh then it
08:14came out they were fixing games and
08:17there were a couple players that were
08:19intentionally throwing off and uh they
08:22were fixing games and that's how that
08:24Scandal came out you know I guess so it
08:26was exposed by gamblers Oh by gamblers
08:28and and how did you know that something
08:30how did you know it wasn't just luck
08:32well I mean Joe look this would be like
08:34tracking an elf in the snow I mean you
08:36got you got guys who no one's ever laid
08:39eyes on and they come to to Las Vegas
08:42and they bet they bet on a game and they
08:44move at six or seven points you know if
08:47you're a handicapper you know anything
08:48at all about betting Sports if the line
08:54uh it it's and you're laying a second to
08:57third point what you know you you better
09:01you better have a really strong opinion
09:04because they mve this line for one
09:06reason uh it it's it's it's to make it a
09:10lot less appealing to the person betting
09:12on on that team so when somebody comes
09:14to town and they move a line six or
09:16seven points no better in the world is
09:18going to do that and in order to do that
09:20they they went to every sports book in
09:21town and they just you know they laid
09:24you know 6 6 and 1/2 7 7 and 1/2 8 8 and
09:271/2 9 9 and 1/2 10 okay okay well
09:31because they were new to betting okay
09:32they knew they had they had an edge
09:34because of what they were doing but they
09:35didn't know anything about betting as a
09:37result you know they created something
09:40that was easy for anyone to see I saw it
09:42again the first time I didn't know you
09:45know the exact uh uh you know I didn't
09:49know exactly who was doing it and I I I
09:52bet on the other side of course I lost
09:53my money and of course I came back the
09:55second time I've seen these things
09:57before and I didn't bet and then of
10:00course you know we taped the game we
10:02looked at it it was pretty easy to see
10:03who was doing what they were doing they
10:05came back the third time did the same
10:06thing frankly you know to give you I
10:09mean these guys were trying to break in
10:11jails what they were trying to do
10:12anybody I mean they were anybody would
10:14do what they were doing was just stupid
10:16I mean anyone could see what they were
10:18doing the only thing surprised me it it
10:20took three games for someone to finally
10:22turn them in and I don't Sports books I
10:25don't think ever turned them in I mean I
10:26called the sh myself because again any
10:29thing that involves Integrity of sports
10:31they're affecting my business if people
10:33get to where they don't trust betting on
10:34sports then the limits are going to go
10:36down and it's going to reduce my ability
10:38to be able to bet on Sports uh you the
10:41other one you know with a referee the
10:43the NFL referee gamblers knew about that
10:47eight months before he got busted by law
10:49enforcement people quit betting on the
10:51games really well sure I mean it wasn't
10:54like they just suspected that the call
10:57no well no what H anytime again Ino
10:59because the Market's so small okay think
11:02about the the New York Stock Exchange or
11:05or think about Apple stock you could
11:09buy $500 million with Apple stock and
11:14and the price on Apple stock would would
11:16barely move okay on on a NF
11:21NFL on an NBA basketball game if you
11:27$250,000 on an NFL basketball game it
11:30would probably move a point and a half
11:33points so and again the people taking
11:36the bat people such as myself and others
11:40if a line moves on a game and it moves
11:42like that and okay I want to do better
11:44on that game if it's another handicapper
11:46or there's an injury out or there's
11:47something there that makes sense as to
11:49why that game moved then okay I
11:51understand it but if there's some
11:53mysterious person that's bet a lot of
11:54money on a game that hasn't been doing
11:56this for a period of time and then I
11:58looking at an outcome of a game that
12:00doesn't make sense uh if I tape it and
12:03and I see you know something that's out
12:05of the ordinary about the way the gamees
12:07being officiated or some players
12:08performance it this is this stuff is
12:11easy Joe to see and you're not dealing
12:14with exactly you're not dealing here
12:17with Master criminals you're dealing
12:18with people that frankly aren't very
12:21smart and number very smart to be doing
12:24what they're doing and the way they go
12:25about it they're even you know about you
12:28know I if you remember the thing years
12:30ago with hot rod Williams I mean there's
12:32the ones what was that thing well it was
12:34it was an NBA thing also but all the
12:37ones if you go back and you look at the
12:39last five sports deals whatever they
12:42were small or big every one of them were
12:45uncovered like that and uh so you know I
12:50did a I did a pro I did an interview on
12:52time on 60 Minutes in 2011 and I was
12:55asked at the end of the interview which
12:58I had the most confidence in betting on
13:00sports uh or investing uh in stocks and
13:03my answer was I have a lot more
13:05confidence in betting on sports uh for
13:07the reason I pointed out uh it's it's a
13:10much smaller Market but as far as as far
13:14as things being on the up and up I have
13:16a lot more confidence than that and I
13:17way more confidence in that than I do
13:19the other well obviously you know it
13:21well well and not only know it well but
13:23also if I didn't know it well I I know
13:25how small the market is I know how
13:27transparent the market maret is and and
13:31if someone goes if someone goes in to
13:33try to bet on Sports and you're trying
13:35to fix a game it's going to be so
13:37obvious it's so easy to detect and it's
13:40so easy to and today it's even easier
13:43and the good thing about legalized
13:44sports betting is it's so transparent
13:46everybody who has an account you know
13:48you take all of these young players that
13:50haven't you know they haven't been uh uh
13:54I'll call it school correctly they
13:55haven't been they haven't you know
13:57whether it be their teams or or whomever
13:59they haven't explained to them you know
14:01the repercussions about betting on
14:02sports if they're a professional athlete
14:04you we've had some here recently that
14:06you know basically these guys are kids
14:08Joe they're kids they don't know any
14:10better and and someone should have sat
14:12down with them and explained to them the
14:14ramifications of what they were doing
14:16maybe they did maybe they didn't but the
14:18one we've had a few of them out there
14:19now but you know you've seen how quick
14:22they catch them because it's all
14:23transparent they go in and make these
14:24bets it doesn't take them any time at
14:26all to figure out who they are if
14:28they're a football player or whatever
14:29they're doing and it's been brought to
14:31the Public's attention so you know if if
14:33it's that easy to catch them somebody
14:35out there making large bets on something
14:38substantially uh and you don't know who
14:41this person is and you're looking at and
14:44they do this more than one time or two
14:46times and you're seeing an outcome of a
14:48game that doesn't make sense it ain't
14:51going to take long to figure this
