01:53hello welcome back to 2021 and ux
01:58evenings with google i'm so happy that
02:01you joined us here tonight
02:03tonight we've got a pretty cool setup in
02:05front of us that's going to talk about
02:08career development we're joined by three
02:11great ux leaders who are going to tell
02:13you about different perspectives
02:15about ux careers at different phases
02:19so i hope they'll be practical tips for
02:22and lots of opportunities at the end of
02:25our session of the lectures they'll also
02:27be a live question and answer with all
02:31so please drop in those questions and
02:35just as we're getting started though i'd
02:36love to see here in the comments
02:38tell us hello where you're from and
02:41maybe one thing you're hoping to get out
02:44we're really excited to get to know you
02:48i'm julie schiller i lead ux community
02:51and culture in asia pacific
02:53and this is a really great chance for us
02:55to share with you some insights and
02:58and we'll continue this series quarterly
03:01if you'd like to see past episodes you
03:03can go to our youtube channel
03:05and follow us there on google design
03:08our first presenter tonight is going to
03:11yeomans he is a director of research and
03:15here at alphabet at google and youtube
03:18he currently directs the user experience
03:21team for youtube's european offices
03:23and builds many youtube creative facing
03:27before he joined alphabet rob was the
03:29ceo of a small travel startup and
03:32a director of creative design and user
03:34experience at george mason university
03:37an assistant professor and he worked in
03:40different universities and authored over
03:4250 scientific articles on design
03:45cognition cognitive flexibility and ux
03:48education rob has a phd in cognitive
03:52psychology and a doctoral minor in
03:55from the university of illinois chicago
03:58and an m.a in experimental psychology
04:01and he was awarded in 2003 at wake
04:03forest university uh
04:04for his research on human decision
04:06making you can also follow rob if you
04:10robert j yeomans and i
04:14always you can hashtag us at hashtag ux
04:17ross going to talk to us a little bit
04:21senior part of his career how he made
04:24and also a little bit more about how you
04:26might be able to make that transition
04:29as always please put your comments in
04:32questions you'd like to hear from rob
04:34and the other presenters at the end
04:36we're really excited to get to hear from
04:39alright let's get rob on the line now
04:43hey julie thank you so much for inviting
04:46me to this event it's a real honor to be
04:49um my background well i have a
04:51background in design and psychology
04:54my phd is in experimental psychology and
04:58cognition specifically and i would say
05:01my background has had three distinct
05:05three phases if you will three three
05:08um i started out as a scientist and
05:12a professor and i spent almost all my
05:16writing papers like this one
05:20publishing book chapters and teaching
05:24and i loved it and i loved my students
05:26and that was a very exciting
05:28part of my life second phase of my
05:32has been in sort of entrepreneurship
05:35i started a ux consulting firm
05:40i i did a couple of startups a travel
05:44and i would if there's an object that
05:47encapsulates that period of my life it's
05:50i spent a lot of time on the design and
05:53of television remote controls
05:57third phase of my life has been where i
06:00at alphabet specifically i'm a ux
06:07here's some tube socks from youtube and
06:11i lead a design and research team that
06:14tools for creators youtube creators
06:18so tell us a little more about your
06:19current role and maybe how it's changed
06:21as a director from your pastorals
06:25hmm different from my past roles
06:29well in in a lot of ways i suppose
06:33i i guess i've come to look at my job as
06:36as kind of there's kind of three parts
06:40uh the first is the two the two v's
06:43vision and values that's something that
06:47a a leader needs to bring
06:49to an organization that's as complicated
06:52as as mine to be successful so
06:56by vision i mean i i spend a fair amount
06:59of my time reminding people that
07:03youtube is a force for good in the world
07:07firmly believe that to my core we do
07:10a lot of good in a lot of places
07:14and and setting that vision and
07:15reminding folks of that is important
07:19as for values go you have to
07:22as a leader think about what you want
07:24the values of your organization to be
07:27you know for me they are psychological
07:34entrepreneurship um and and
07:37and rigor so i suppose i've brought some
07:41my previous roles to this one in that
07:46second thing and this is going to sound
07:50but part of being a good director is
07:53letting go of skills
07:56oftentimes skills that you hold very
08:00i used to be a terrific statistician
08:03and now i've got 10 people on my team
08:06that are better at it than i am
08:08um i used to be pretty good with
08:10solidworks a design program
08:13same thing you know i'm probably the
08:16worst designer on my team at this point
08:22letting things go it's important that
08:26you can do that as a leader and let you
08:27know let the folks that are
08:29the true professionals which are the
08:32do those roles and and not not not be
08:35tempted to to micromanage
08:38the third thing that i would say is
08:40different about being a director
08:42is uh related to the to the
08:46to the letting letting go of skills you
08:49really intimidating to be in a in a kind
08:52of a high level position at a company
08:55i was i was terrified of what i got when
08:57i got the role i thought i was in over
08:59and one of the things that i've returned
09:03that makes me feel better uh not
09:06you know not perfect but better when i
09:08feel oh my gosh what am i going to do is
09:11that uh above all the all other values i
09:15i feel that my role is one of a servant
09:18i'm here to make my team shine and the
09:22succeed and give them career paths and
09:25make them know that they're welcome on
09:29well i think the comments coming in
09:30really do show that people are excited
09:32about what you're talking about
09:34maybe tell us a little bit about um
09:36people have asked us in the past to
09:37think about how to grow
09:39into careers leading ux at their company
09:43so what are some key skills that someone
09:45should focus on when they're trying
09:47uh when they're currently maybe leading
09:49a smaller team and they want to move up
09:50to leading the whole organization
09:52could you name a few skills that you uh
09:54you think they could focus on
09:57skills for growth sure
10:00uh you know well one thing i would say
10:03is this reminds me of a study
10:04that me and a few other researchers
10:08ran a couple of years back and what the
10:10study did was it asked
10:12students in human factors programs you
10:14know theater programs for ux
10:17what skills they thought that they would
10:20at when they became a professional in
10:23and they'd say things like you know
10:26exotic statistics like bayesian
10:29or eye tracking or things like that
10:32you know things that basically nobody
10:34seems to ever actually use
10:36and and uh that was interesting but the
10:38most interesting finding
10:40was that between professionals and
10:44the thing that uh students got wrong the
10:48was they undervalued the importance of
10:51being able to communicate
10:54so you know i know students do
10:57talks at conferences and things like
11:01as an executive as you're growing really
11:04your communication skills are
11:05hugely hugely important and uh
11:09and i think people fail to realize just
11:12important actually that's true for
11:14students and i think that's true for
11:16ics uh in early career
11:20it's it's just true all the way up the
11:23one thing that i would stress is that
11:27uh the importance of being able to
11:28communicate wealth communicate research
11:30findings to communicate ideas
11:32to communicate about design um
11:36yeah just i can never stress that enough
11:40second thing uh i would say is
11:43you know you're wanting to grow your
11:44career you want to move up
11:46um it's learning quite frankly
11:50uh and you know because there's things
11:52that you're going to need to learn about
11:54uh that you desire to be in that
11:58you don't you probably don't currently
11:59have even if you're really anxious to
12:01get that next promotion or move into
12:04you really need to prepare well for that
12:06some of the things i would recommend
12:07are you know good old-fashioned reading
12:11actually a book i would recommend for
12:13for folks that are trying to climb
12:15is this one a book called liftoff which
12:19is about design leadership and elevating
12:23really good book by chris
12:26evor and russ unger highly recommended
12:31a third thing and maybe this is going
12:34back to my entrepreneurial
12:36days um but it's important as you're
12:39trying to grow your career to be able to
12:41a pitch um i got my current role
12:46by essentially pitching it to a vice
12:49at google um we were coming back from an
12:53and we were on a like a tour bus and i
12:56i've been thinking about the this office
12:59that i'm in now the zurich office and
13:02it needed i thought a strong leader here
13:07and so i i told him about my ideas and
13:09kind of pitched that to him
13:11and it wasn't right away that he said
13:14uh it it took actually probably six
13:17months and a lot of conversation and
13:18a lot of support from my then manager
13:22and other leaders in the company people
13:25to kind of make it work but
13:28it started with that pitch and that idea
13:32designers are good at this uh but um i
13:35i think i think being able to pitch a
13:38you know a realistic good idea is uh a
13:41real important skill
13:43as you grow your career and and i think
13:45that's something that when i was in the
13:46middle of my career i got better at
13:48and now that i'm you know more senior
13:52i find that very valuable thank you
13:55those are really great skills
13:56i'm i'm really grateful for also the
13:58examples about how to use them and why
14:00they matter for where you are right now
14:03um if you guys have any questions about
14:04that pop them in the chat
14:06um so i'll come back to one question i
14:10at the end of this but i did want to ask
14:12you a little bit about
14:13uh that's sort of what got you into the
14:16role but i'm curious to know for where
14:18you're sitting now as a director
14:20can you tell us more about how you think
14:23career growth what kind of problems
14:24you're focusing on what kind of skills
14:26you're trying to grow
14:29hey you want me to give away all my
14:32um sure uh i think some here's some of
14:35the things that i think about when i
14:38career growth the first one is the
14:40incredible importance of
14:42relationships and relationship building
14:45you know as an exercise if you're
14:47listening one of the one of the things
14:49take a spreadsheet or even just a piece
14:52and put your name in the center and then
14:56the people that are important in in your
14:58in your work around that circle
15:00and put a line between those to show the
15:03strength of that relationship you know
15:05is it is that a close relationship or is
15:07it someone that's pretty far away
15:09and and you know you do something like
15:12and then you have a little map that can
15:16more mindful about those relationships
15:20places where you want to strengthen them
15:23second career growth tip is uh
15:27i wonder how many of your listeners here
15:28have heard of the concept of of managing
15:31up you know the idea that it's important
15:35your manager and uh where you know where
15:39learn from uh her or him
15:42and uh so managing up is very important
15:46when i was getting to know my current
15:50i i asked him or he recommended i can't
15:52remember which we were having a
15:53conversation about career gut
15:55growth and i asked him you know what are
15:57some of his influences
15:58you know i had come from this academic
16:01um or startup background and he had he
16:05he had not come from that that
16:08and and it was really surprising one of
16:10the things that he talked to me a lot
16:13um coaching uh you know like in sports
16:16and he even recommended a book that had
16:20um this phil jackson book
16:27phil jackson was the famous basketball
16:31of the chicago bulls michael jordan's
16:35and it was so interesting to to hear him
16:38and it was very interesting to read that
16:40book and it gave me a perspective both
16:42my manager his style um
16:46and and so on and it also i just learned
16:49so kind of managing up and making the
16:51most out of your relationship that you
16:58is how would i put this to stay curious
17:03to stay curious about the world um i'll
17:07coming to my current role i didn't know
17:10as i wanted to about visual design
17:14i had studied industrial design and
17:18visual design is different and there is
17:20an outstanding visual designer on my
17:23a woman named veronica and i really
17:26made it uh i'm i'm busy guy but i really
17:29tried to make an effort to spend time
17:32to really learn more about that role
17:35that profession the things that make it
17:38the things that make her so good at that
17:40job and uh it paid off i mean i
17:43i still have a lot to learn but um
17:46staying curious and learning about
17:48new parts of of your organization
17:52is is key to i think
17:55my career development i love these
17:59i think it's things that everyone at
18:00home can also think about as well
18:03um maybe if i can have one can i have
18:07ask me anything so i want to hear a
18:10little bit about how you think about
18:12being in the right place at the right
18:14time it clearly sounds like you've put a
18:16lot of work and thinking and
18:18preparation into putting in uh your
18:21i know for a lot of people people put in
18:22the work but sometimes it's hard to kind
18:24of make your own luck
18:25so do you have any tips for any like
18:27last parting tips for people out here in
18:30as they think about their careers or
18:31around the world and growing into these
18:34well i i don't know about changing your
18:37but i can't think of a tip for people in
18:41or emea or really for someone anyone
18:44anyone that finds themselves in a place
18:46where they don't have
18:48a clear mentor someone
18:51something to look up to and model their
18:53their career path after
18:55you know in ux oftentimes um you might
19:00at that point in your career and you're
19:01trying to grow but there's no one out
19:04ahead of you to model
19:05yourself after and that's why i would
19:07you know again i spoke before about
19:10relationship building but the higher you
19:14the more you're going to find you
19:15actually have in common with other
19:18disciplines so if you if there's not
19:22another ux or that can be a mentor to
19:24you there might be someone from
19:26or business or even engineering you know
19:29in your career uh i've been
19:33surprised to find that a lot of the
19:34problems that i have are the same
19:37folks in other departments or
19:40professions have so uh a ux director
19:44might have a lot more in common
19:45with a product director than you might
19:47think and so my advice is if you don't
19:50a clear mentor in ux uh in your area or
19:53or company um ask for mentorship from
19:57someone outside your discipline
19:58um because i think that this especially
20:01as you grow into a senior role
20:03the skill set that you're going to need
20:04to succeed in that role
20:06there's a lot of commonalities that
20:10so that's my advice my tip
20:13thanks rob i really enjoyed hearing
20:16about that and it was a pretty handy
20:18exercise you suggested i think i'm going
20:22all right drop in your questions for rob
20:25and i want to tell you a little bit
20:26about our next presenter
20:28our next presenter is
20:31she is the head of product design and
20:34at ne digital and ntuc enterprise
20:38the fair price group so yanqua is the
20:42head of this group and she's in charge
20:43of digital transformation
20:45thinking about leading digital change
20:47across all of ntuc enterprise and fair
20:51using her leadership and design user
20:55they adopted a lot of user-centered
20:58problem framing statements and she even
21:01qa into the development cycle recently
21:05ux scorecards that measure design and
21:08research impact within the organization
21:11young is passive passionate about arts
21:14design and technology
21:16believing design can change people
21:17improve lives by designing good
21:20with human-centered design methodologies
21:24moved by a deep commitment for
21:25human-centered design and a desire
21:28to create value that drives growth and
21:32we're really excited to hear from young
21:34she's going to talk to us a little bit
21:35about uh different phases of our career
21:38particularly focused on the
21:40introduction and getting into different
21:44all right with no further ado over to
21:49hi i am most people call me young for
21:54i'm joining in today to talk about how
21:58in ux from starting out to growing your
22:01skills to become a leader in your
22:05one of the most common statements i hear
22:07from designer after being
22:09njro for four to six years they start
22:12asking themselves what's next
22:14should i become elite should i becomes a
22:20very often when i ask them what makes
22:24a good lead the answers are not as clear
22:27as we all like it to be
22:30if you are at this similar position
22:34using similar challenges i like you to
22:40out to pause and think and ask yourself
22:43these questions right in the working
22:47context so what are the things that
22:51excited what are the things right that
22:55gets more attention that makes you sing
22:58and listen what are the things that
23:02you enjoy doing over and over
23:05again is it moving the pistol to that
23:10is it getting that positive energy from
23:13running design screen with your looking
23:16at the same time what are the things
23:19hated doing and you try to avoid
23:23at all costs and also it's also
23:26important for you to find out what are
23:28the things that you don't enjoy doing
23:31don't mind doing it and most important
23:36and last of all is ask people
23:39for feedback ask people what you are
23:42and what you sucks at it is really
23:46important to find out more about ourself
23:49because it will help you to know where
23:52are the areas that you want to build
23:55later on be it for individual
23:58or be it as a people's manager
24:02at the same time i also like you to
24:06start being aware of the various
24:08business setup that you are working
24:10in are you working in agency or
24:14where work is project based in this case
24:18might or might not have close contact
24:21business stakeholders decision makers
24:23and you might not have
24:24access to developers whenever
24:27that you like or are you working in a
24:32a one-man team or a moment in the big
24:35enterprise where you
24:36are required to do everything from
24:39interpreting requirements user stories
24:44or if you you're lucky you're in a team
24:48where there are some form of process
24:51and specialization of roles are in place
24:55being aware of all this is really
24:58important because it will help you to
25:00identify the skill sets you need in
25:04to be successful in the various type of
25:09at this moment it might sound pretty
25:13you might want to know more about the
25:17to think about to add on so to make it
25:21i'm going to use my own journey as an
25:23example hopefully this can be
25:25food for thoughts for you and help you
25:29journey so for me i took the
25:33classic path right and what do i mean by
25:37so it means that i spent a large part of
25:42as an individual contribute about 12 to
25:4430 years before moving on to becomes a
25:48and the challenge of canon drum for me
25:52there is very little clarity in terms
25:56of how one might progress in their
26:00what means a good leadership what
26:03it means to be a people's manager
26:07there is very little combination of
26:10around that so moving on to look at
26:15my early career back in those days uh
26:18in digital ad agency the most important
26:22is really to understand to bring to
26:25make the perfect pitch and do the
26:29and as a designer in an agency it's so
26:32important to be able to find inspiration
26:35from physical objects to
26:37music to design publication and
26:40one of my favorite design publication is
26:43called creative review where i
26:44love the cover design this magazine
26:48has some of the best collection of top
26:52the covers visual concentrative media to
26:55art and it's being one of the best way
26:57inspired and in the early part of the
27:02advise strengthening your craft skills
27:06really being able to execute
27:09visual design being able to execute
27:13being able to execute branding
27:17conceptualization and brainstorming
27:19well this will set a good foundation for
27:23hate as a designer right of course
27:27agency has its big force right one of it
27:31the agency are far away from the
27:34team there is a clear lack of product
27:37ownership and of course you don't get to
27:40end design and you don't get to
27:43participate in continuous
27:45improvement and this also is one of the
27:49that leads me to my next journey
27:52with an in-house development team
27:56so i joined creative tech technology as
28:00they designed and built mobile and
28:04working in creative tech exposed me to
28:08think stick and work you know for
28:10example i learned to work with
28:13tech constraints i learned to appreciate
28:17developers to work with constraints and
28:21timeline and also it is also here that
28:24saw my growth as a us designer in
28:27applying human factor design principle
28:31use it today for those of you who are
28:38human factors it's pretty much rooted in
28:41it focuses on human behaviors on how
28:45with the physical world as well with the
28:49and also focus on making the system safe
28:54so in fact human factors is a large part
28:58customer experience i definitely
29:01recommend you as designer to a good gap
29:04human factors knowledge and this
29:07particular book has a huge influence on
29:10my uni module course book it's called
29:12introduction to human factors
29:14engineering it basically covers the
29:16capabilities and limitations
29:18of the human operator both physical and
29:21and how right we can design
29:24system to help people to interact and
29:27this book also covers the
29:29general principles of human system
29:33uh design right and it's an excellent
29:36reference so to cover some key concepts
29:39that is relevant to the u.s designer
29:41the first one is physical ergonomics
29:43right physical economics basically
29:46the human body interacts uh
29:49responses to physical work demands for
29:52example there is a huge
29:54design implications uh from using one
29:58hold your mobile phone versus two hands
30:01to hold your mobile phones and
30:02also one of the key principles in
30:06is really to design for context of
30:09use right it is very different
30:12when a user uses the mobile device uh
30:16in-house versus uh uses it outside
30:20right and the other principles that i'd
30:22like to share is about consistency
30:26how a system should look and work the
30:28same throughout consistency plays a
30:31key role in helping the user to transfer
30:34and learn skills to the other
30:36parts of the product or even platform as
30:40um designing for ipad
30:43so some of the schemes that the users
30:46have learned can be transferred to
30:49right the next point is about efficiency
30:52in tech speed is basically about
30:54reducing friction in human factors
30:57perspective is it is about reducing the
31:01load so some of the tips these books
31:04is you know breaking down complex tasks
31:07are in two simple steps because by doing
31:11reduce complexity you also have to
31:14the decision making process and this in
31:17a way reduce the cognitive
31:19load it also emphasize heavily on
31:23making the interface making the design
31:26easy to understand easy to
31:29learn and make the interface
31:32design guiding the user how to learn
31:36all right and the other important
31:39is about error management the most
31:42important part of error management is
31:44actually error prevention and error
31:47error preventions error corrections and
31:51service recovery and very often
31:54doesn't spend enough time on this
31:57some of the tips these books uh covers
32:01you know uh how do we identify um
32:05possible points where a user might face
32:08so across the user journey what are the
32:10areas that users might face are
32:12troubles and how do we protect users or
32:15prevent users from fatal errors and
32:18some example of discount design is like
32:20the undo functions that we see very
32:22in digital and also having clarity
32:26uh in messages helps customers to do uh
32:30error recovery and moving on to my next
32:34uh role after uh creative technology
32:38joined uh ucbc the bank
32:42as part of a newly formed design team
32:46and this is a milestone because the way
32:49the culture is completely different from
32:53roles here i get to work with the uh
32:57business owner very closely they are
32:59subject matter experts so i mean they
33:03explaining how credit loans are might
33:06however they are have difficulty in
33:11their business requirements to uh design
33:15to uh digital or requirements and
33:18with this i find myself lacking the soft
33:20skills to work effectively and today
33:23i want to share with everyone some of
33:25the key skills that you should also
33:28adopting or acquiring right
33:31so first one is asking good question
33:36asking good questions helps you to think
33:40help the other party to think deeper in
33:42a way it helps to get
33:44more clarity the next one is about
33:48acquiring problem solving techniques
33:51um design thinking designing it is a
33:54toolkit to help you know over not only
33:57to do diverging thinking but also to
34:00right it helps to move project forward
34:04instead of spending time on opinions on
34:09use problem solving technique right to
34:12team to convert to help the team to come
34:17and mix skill sets stakes holders
34:20are mapping stakeholders mapping is
34:22really about knowing who they are
34:24what are the rules what are their
34:26concerns in regards to the context of
34:29the work who they report to this is
34:32a really useful when it comes to
34:36getting project and stuck because having
34:40uh mapping allows you to know how to
34:43navigate the organizations
34:45a lot easier and lastly
34:48learning to speak business right a lot
34:52is about alignment a lot of work is also
34:55buy-ins it is crucial for people to
34:58and also for you to help them to
35:02work so it is important to speak their
35:04language we need to articulate
35:06how design whatever impact how design
35:09will improve their business
35:10will improve the customers experience
35:14are the business and customer matrix
35:16that we are looking to
35:18improve or to make an impact
35:21so the ability to speak business will
35:24help us in creating that mutual
35:26understanding and at this
35:30point you could probably be thinking and
35:32being overwhelmed with
35:34all the various skills that you need to
35:38the good news is that you don't have to
35:41right what i would encourage uh you
35:45to do is to be a t-ship designer
35:48so if you recall earlier on i was asking
35:51what are your strengths what are your
35:52weaknesses what you get a lot of energy
35:56the activities that um drain your energy
36:00use this you know as a guiding about
36:03where you want to grow your skills
36:05what does it mean for you uh when you're
36:09yourself uh this industry
36:12right so what i'd like you to consider
36:15is that when you're considering rules
36:18learn to look for and recognize your own
36:21maturity level as well as the
36:23organizational maturity level which
36:26you are currently working for or looking
36:30with so i like to end off saying that
36:34that works for you and always remember
36:37it is okay to switch path it's okay to
36:41focus it is okay to try out another
36:44and it's definitely okay to come back to
36:48where you are from so with this
36:51um i thank you for your time i hope
36:54something useful from the talk and thank
36:57you so much for staying with me
36:59thank you thank you so much young for
37:03talk i really enjoyed hearing a lot of
37:07our last presenter for tonight is going
37:11randy hunt randy is the head of design
37:15where he's leading teams of designers
37:18writers and researchers who are creating
37:20a southeast asia super app he grabs
37:23broad design practice which includes
37:25service design product design ux
37:28design operations design systems
37:30illustrations and more
37:32the team is striving to use design to
37:36serve the needs of customers and lift
37:39he has previously served as head of
37:43and the vp of design at etsy in 2014
37:46etsy was honored with the cooper hewitt
37:49national design award for corporate and
37:52institutional achievement
37:54randy is an author of product design for
37:57so please check out his book which
38:00some of the evolving discipline of
38:02product design for today's connected
38:05he also co-founded supermark a curated
38:08marketplace founded citizen scholar
38:12and worked at milton glaser inc he is an
38:15writer lecturer critic visiting designer
38:18at many colleges and universities
38:20he's originally from orlando florida and
38:22spent 15 years working and living in new
38:25before moving out here to singapore in
38:29he also co-founded a record label he ran
38:32a design firm in brooklyn
38:34and co-founded an e-commerce marketplace
38:37he spent nearly eight years leaving over
38:39at etsy and he really knows a lot about
38:41scaling businesses and leading large
38:44i so i hope you'll welcome help me
38:47randy to the conversation tonight as we
38:50a last piece of understanding i ux
38:54development over to you randy
38:58hello there hey so excited to be here
39:03today and to get the chance to share
39:06a bit of perspective and what i'd like
39:10to talk with you about
39:11is coming to careers in ux
39:15and design from different backgrounds
39:19from backgrounds that might look
39:20unconventional not coming from
39:22traditional training
39:23and design user experience
39:27human computer interaction interaction
39:31product design whatever the terminology
39:35i think we all have a sense of which
39:36ones feel like they're at the center of
39:39in the center of the profession and
39:43if you haven't passed through the the
39:45center of the profession before
39:47or the educational establishment you
39:51yourself or people around you in that
39:54feeling sometimes you know imposter
39:58a bit uncomfortable not quite sure
40:01if or how um to sort of leverage their
40:06make themselves relevant in the context
40:11practice so i just want to share with
40:13you a few thoughts about that today
40:15now why do i think that's important i'm
40:18you know overeducated i suppose
40:22particularly in design i studied design
40:25in undergraduate school i studied design
40:29and i'll tell you what i don't think
40:32either of those things are necessary
40:34for the career i've had or the work that
40:39now were they helpful i think they
40:41definitely were helpful
40:43but i don't think they were absolutely
40:47and one of the reasons why i believe
40:50is the nature of the world that we live
40:51and work in today i'll speak to that for
40:56and the other is the experiences i've
40:59seen and observed as i've
41:01hired and built teams mentored designers
41:04early in their careers and
41:07seeing what's possible with people with
41:10backgrounds and experiences and
41:14really not only what's possible maybe
41:16what's required or what it
41:18what it takes to put together uh diverse
41:22and the benefit you have from people's
41:24diverse experience yeah
41:25so i've often held this belief i'm not
41:27even sure where this originated from
41:29but just follow me here i think it holds
41:32the way that we're taught you know our
41:36in primary education or something is
41:39super foundational important
41:42learning how to speak
41:46how to read how to write and
41:50some of us are more proficient at or
41:52more comfortable with those things than
41:55but i think we could all agree that it's
41:56a foundational and important skill
42:02you know someone may be a poet laureate
42:04someone might be a professional editor
42:06and you may write paragraphs of words to
42:09communicate your ideas in a
42:11google doc but we're all
42:14building from the same core foundational
42:17and i think that design
42:20is also a language like this and we
42:22should think about it like this
42:25that everyone should have that may sound
42:28you know utopian or something i don't
42:30mean like everyone's a designer
42:32even though i do think that um what i
42:34mean is that the basics
42:36of even ux thinking you know
42:40good typography visual communication
42:43pacing and time it relates to
42:47i mean imagine what happens in the quick
42:48storytelling in a you know tick-tock
42:52these are actually how we communicate
42:55today in large part probably an
42:57extension of other language
42:59but these are all a language
43:02which means we can have a capability in
43:05that language at various
43:07levels and still put it to good use so
43:12you know authoring the encyclopedia
43:16you know writing an email to a co-worker
43:19writing skill to work i think the same
43:22so why does this matter if you're coming
43:24from an unconventional background well
43:25what you feel may be
43:28you know these really high level
43:31advanced skills that you somehow need to
43:34you know to be a you know qualified
43:39i think are actually just fundamental
43:40skills that everyone should have around
43:42you so it means they're not that
43:43special but they are very important
43:48and so you know go after them and it
43:50also means like a lifelong
43:52practice of making those things better
43:55you have to learn the language though
43:57and you can continuously learn the
43:58language and get better at it like any
44:00other language reading it
44:02speaking it writing it
44:05continually will make you better which
44:08designing and communicating and thinking
44:10about users like frequently
44:14it's also important i was talking with
44:15my friend about this concept the other
44:18and he reflected back to me that you
44:21what he said is design isn't the
44:22solution it's a language to express the
44:26and i think that's right so you got to
44:30but the thinking uh about what the
44:34is different and separate and just the
44:36better you exercise that language the
44:38you'll have a greater ability to express
44:41that solution over time
44:42right so you got to work on that design
44:44language but there's so much of it
44:46like what if you start to learn you know
44:48in one area like you're learning about
44:50research or human centered design
44:52methods maybe from a
44:53ux course you took or something or you
44:56come from graphic design
44:58interest and you start on ui design uh
45:02or maybe you're interested more in like
45:03collaboration methods and workshops
45:07these are all great things to have
45:10more helpful to have them than not have
45:13are not the defining characteristics
45:17because even having all of those things
45:20the people you might work with people
45:22you aspire to work with
45:24having those skills is insufficient
45:29and being insufficient not having enough
45:32information or not knowing well enough
45:33like i pointed to it at the start is
45:36actually what we all
45:37experience this the industry and the
45:40profession is changing so quickly
45:42that the things that we learned as
45:44professionals four five six years ago
45:47have been replaced by new concepts new
45:48models definitely new tools
45:52and we are all perpetually in the state
45:54of not knowing what's going on around us
45:57so actually you're closer to that than
46:01you already have the challenges of a
46:04seasoned professional which is
46:05not knowing i think that learning to
46:08is the best meta skill you can develop
46:13as a ux professional today
46:18one of the important things here is to
46:19understand how you learn what is your
46:22and are you a hands-on doer do you kind
46:25of take things apart to put them back
46:26together to understand you need to
46:29participate in things do you like to be
46:32you know pursue have content kind of
46:34transferred to you in a
46:36lecture format do you like to read do
46:39you like to co-learn with other people
46:42it's likely a mix of these methods but
46:43understanding how you learn best and how
46:45you take in information best
46:47is a really important meta skill because
46:51wherever you're coming from whatever
46:52your background whatever level of ux
46:54experience you have or not
46:56you will spend much of your time in the
47:00figuring out information you don't
47:03or getting access to data you don't have
47:08learning methodologies or development
47:10was a great attribute and i thought well
47:11if they explore these concepts
47:13maybe they could adapt in the context of
47:15a design organization
47:18now turns out you know i took a chance
47:21you know and i could have as easily been
47:22wrong as i was right but in this case
47:24i'm very thankful that it was
47:26you know a good chance to take this
47:28person turned into one of the strongest
47:30team members we had ultimately a great
47:33inside that organization and now today
47:36is a director at one of the
47:39you know one of the companies you and i
47:41probably happily give our money to
47:46no obvious ux experience in their
47:48background and i think it's just such a
47:51version a beautiful example of exactly
47:53how these things can work
47:55so keep an open mind always be learning
47:58be prepared to learn everything
47:59and build on that design language so
48:07and your approaches your solutions
48:10um with the greatest proficiency
48:14yeah all right well look forward to your
48:18and so happy to to get to share with you
48:24thanks so much for those insights that
48:27i've said it before i'll just drop those
48:29comments into the question box we're
48:32about to move into our question and
48:34phase another thing you can do to give
48:36us some feedback or share your thoughts
48:38feedback you can reach out to us on
48:40twitter or anywhere on social media with
48:44evening we are coming to the last part
48:48session here this is a special time
48:50where i'm going to bring all three
48:52and we get to answer your questions live
48:56drop them in any last questions you
48:58might have this is all about
48:59us building a community and talking with
49:02each other so it's really important for
49:04share any last questions you might have
49:08i really enjoyed all the lectures today
49:09but let's get to the part where we get
49:11to get the answers to our burning
49:14let me hold on for a second and i'll go
49:16get all the presenters
49:24well sorry everybody about the technical
49:26problems that we've been having
49:28uh luckily we've got rob here from
49:30youtube to look at yeah
49:31my bad sorry about that i i i
49:35will plug out here in my basement and
49:39um well we're really grateful for all
49:42the questions that have been coming in
49:44didn't stop in this stream so if you
49:45have any additional questions
49:47you didn't get to ask or if you want to
49:50special tips he added that you didn't
49:52get to hear we will uh repair the video
49:54when we post it live later
49:56um but i want to just catch up uh
50:00with you guys and ask a few questions
50:01that had come in in the question and
50:04people really engaged in this so thank
50:06you first off for taking time to
50:08put such thoughtful talks together and
50:10help everybody think about their ux
50:13uh one topic i think every single person
50:15talked about was communication skills
50:17and how at different points in your
50:19career communication skills
50:21support the use of you of ux inside of
50:26so i was wondering thinking about the
50:28different phases of career that each of
50:30could you give the audience a little bit
50:32of suggestions about the kind of career
50:35skills they should be focusing on in
50:36different parts of their career
50:44go ahead randy thanks
50:47well i think if you're sort of early
50:49stages in your career or coming from
50:52other disciplines i'll take that angle
50:54um i mean i reiterate a little bit what
50:56i think that actually learning the
51:03as well as the vocabulary of whomever
51:06you are working with or for so whatever
51:08that domain or space is
51:10uh is one of the more practical things
51:18in the professional context because the
51:23words have meaning but words can have
51:26and so it's helpful to understand that
51:29we're talking about the same thing or
51:30we're talking with people
51:31pretty complicated concepts we're
51:33dealing with and so you can avoid a lot
51:36um and just help sort of grease the
51:38wheels of good productive work
51:40when we uh what you look like you know
51:42do you talk too fast you talk
51:43too slow do you have these words that
51:47it's painful but that's a really great
51:49way to improve your communication skills
51:51that really anybody can do
51:53yeah they'll probably um deter that when
51:56i was training myself
51:57up as a user researcher doing
52:00customers uh interviews i still remember
52:03my first few sessions
52:05i'm so scared and what i did in order to
52:07improve myself actually record
52:09the way i interviewed because we are so
52:13having bias in our own question and the
52:16to improve is really have that awareness
52:18and that is also one way of
52:20improving communications and another way
52:24draw i tend to draw out what the other
52:28right and then we can't align on the
52:30whiteboard we can't unlike
52:31what is the problem to sort online when
52:33you say the day is sun what do you mean
52:35day is sunny there have clouds does it
52:37have birds what is cause
52:39communication is actually my weakest
52:41point so one way i find it's really
52:56those are great tips guys thanks i think
52:58maybe one i'll also add to it it's like
52:59cultivating a sense of storytelling
53:02uh that's like something in my own
53:03career i found to develop uh
53:05that skill it's um not always about
53:07creating the great work but being able
53:09bring the stakeholders and the audience
53:11along on that conversation so
53:13i throughout the careers you're you're
53:15thinking about the work i think
53:17communication is definitely a vital one
53:19uh one we heard a lot of questions
53:22was the uh transition from school to
53:26you know i think uh many of us come with
53:29uh specialized or general related or
53:34and i would just like to hear about some
53:36differences you think about
53:39working in ux versus in industry versus
53:42uh what you might have experienced in
53:44the school environment and that kind of
53:45incentives and rewards some people might
53:49uh anyone have thoughts on that i'll be
53:52the first to say constraints
53:54constraints i think um
53:57one of the big difference between school
54:00and reality with the weather with that
54:04a constraint but i always tell my team
54:06constraint drive better design
54:09constrain drive by design yeah
54:13i love that point yang yeah they're like
54:15the constraints of what's possible
54:17the amount of time the amount of
54:18resources that money
54:20the interest those are all uh different
54:24around if rob and randy have any
54:28thoughts about the differences between
54:30school and industry when you're thinking
54:31about the development of your ux career
54:38from my perspective i think
54:44the formal capacity even though i
54:47studied design probably too much
54:49um and so i was never really exposed to
54:53academic take on many of the practices
54:58uh we consider you know sort of core or
55:01so i can't speak to those specific
55:04maybe uh the fact that i haven't had
55:07those experiences in an educational
55:08context and that i'm
55:10able to successfully deliver value and
55:14career in the space is some kind of
55:17what is different or what might be
55:20different which is that
55:21they really are like two different
55:22environments and you can
55:24bring things from an educational
55:26environment for sure there's tons of
55:28um but the actual experience industry is
55:31is going to be different and maybe so
55:32the bit of advice i would give is
55:36expect it to be the same like plan for
55:39it to be completely different
55:40you know if your expectation is that you
55:43know the projects or the workshops or
55:45the way something went in educational
55:46context will be directly what you apply
55:49you will probably be surprised
55:51disappointed or frustrated
55:53but if you think that the educational
55:54experience you had is actually a
55:55collection of life experiences
55:57like anything else and now you're going
55:59to go have some other life experiences
56:01maybe you can learn from some of those
56:02things and apply what you learned
56:04but i highly doubt that they follow
56:08that all the structure you learned in an
56:13yeah i would just add to that point that
56:16the fact that ux is such a messy field
56:20i guess a turn off for some people but i
56:22love it like i i love the fact that it's
56:25cross-disciplinary and that you're
56:28or as you know as randy put it life
56:31um you know the entrepreneurial side of
56:34it the pitch side of the
56:35the craft side of it they're all really
56:37interesting the research
56:39really interesting and so i think good
56:43in general curious about the world and
56:46and kind of cobbling together a
56:48collection of things and
56:50the best you enters that i know and work
56:51with and that are my colleagues are that
56:54so if you're if you know you have to
56:56guess i guess get a little bit
56:57comfortable with the fact that you can't
57:00graduate get a job it's not it's not
57:03sort of that traditional
57:04at least today career path for many of
57:08and it's if you're noticing that and
57:09that's making you uncomfortable
57:11that's a you know it's okay like that's
57:13that's how we all have felt i think
57:15that's just part of that's just part of
57:19thanks guys that sounds really good and
57:20rob maybe if you can just add it on
57:22there's a couple questions that came in
57:23transitioning with the phd because i
57:25know we have a lot of people yeah i saw
57:27a couple of those and i've been trying
57:29yes people ask like was it worth it to
57:31get a phd or was it you know
57:34was it just a waste of you know six
57:37and you know the answer i always say is
57:39no no it was it was really worth it
57:41uh to get the phd because as randy was
57:45earlier you know it really taught me a
57:48and uh and and i find myself applying
57:52like rigorous study of topic x
57:55you know i i think my phd is on a topic
57:58called design fixation and i don't study
58:01but um but the way that i had to learn
58:04about design fixation
58:06is the same way that i've had to learn
58:07about visual design or
58:09areas of research or anything else and
58:13that part has been great uh there was a
58:15couple of questions about people saying
58:16hey what i've been told i'm over
58:18qualified in like job interviews and
58:20things like that and i
58:21and i actually have heard that from
58:23other uh colleagues of mine as well
58:25um what i would say to that is uh
58:28consider what you're emphasizing
58:30in your in your career if you're lucky
58:32enough you know like me i've had a
58:33fairly long career a lot of different
58:36but like i'm selective about which of
58:39i'm emphasizing depending on my audience
58:42whether it's this audience or an
58:46so you know i think a mistake people
58:47make as they try and
58:49say in an interview here's everything
58:50that i've done whereas a little editing
58:53could could make that a very compelling
58:56julie you were talking about
58:57storytelling and so you know don't feel
58:59like you have to talk about everything
59:02paint a picture of who you want to be
59:07that's a great tip thanks for addressing
59:10another one just to add on to this for
59:12me for everyone to also reply to was
59:14about portfolios this is quite a hot
59:17for non-designers and i know designers
59:21have offered a long time been talking
59:24do you have any advice or suggestions
59:26for people as they think about
59:28creating a portfolio and telling that
59:30story about their body of work
59:38i think the suggestion is to work for
59:40free or get a short-term
59:42internship i think that's um that's the
59:46practice that's one to get exposure to
59:48an organization or even if it's a
59:51uh what there is a lot to be learned as
59:52a freelancer because you have to
59:54negotiate you have to meet the client
59:56to understand what's the problem you're
59:58trying to help them to solve
01:00:00so i think there's a lot of value in
01:00:02just getting your hands
01:00:03dirty and build that portfolio and of
01:00:05course go and meet people you never know
01:00:07whoever they that you meet in those
01:00:09meetings might have brilliant
01:00:10opportunities as well yeah
01:00:19thanks um all right my kind of last
01:00:23johnny and several of the people in chat
01:00:24were really curious to hear about
01:00:26i you guys will work for pretty big
01:00:30um do big tips for people working at a
01:00:32smaller company maybe they're
01:00:34a solo uxer on a very small team how can
01:00:36they think about their career
01:00:39a structured way like you guys have
01:00:41presented the different phases of
01:00:43your career does that advice change or
01:00:45modify in any way
01:00:47based on that factor i can start here
01:00:51i i think there's real advantages to
01:00:53working at big companies and real
01:00:55advantages to working on small companies
01:00:58my advice would be to take advantage of
01:01:00the of those advantages if you will
01:01:02so in a small company you get to wear
01:01:04like all the hats right you get to do
01:01:06all the things and that's so exciting so
01:01:09you can be you know
01:01:10a ux researcher you can be a ux designer
01:01:12you can be the company's expert on
01:01:15you can be doing building prototypes the
01:01:17way a ux engineer might
01:01:19all of those things all those
01:01:20experiences so you should try and
01:01:22capitalize on the fact that you're able
01:01:24to do that because at a larger company
01:01:25there's there's more specialized roles
01:01:27um i don't know randy i see you nodding
01:01:32well i very very much agree with that i
01:01:35kind of multi-hat experience is
01:01:40just really valuable experience to to
01:01:44you know and i think normal company is
01:01:47right you might find yourself
01:01:49wearing hats outside of what you might
01:01:52design and i would encourage anyone to
01:01:56and it's just really really valuable
01:01:58skills makes you appreciate other
01:01:59people's roles and responsibilities
01:02:01as you get into other environments you
01:02:03can empathize with what they're adding
01:02:04to an organization as well
01:02:10yeah that's a i think a great point is
01:02:12that like when you have that opportunity
01:02:13to try different things out
01:02:15you can always um sort of find the time
01:02:18and the pacing for yourself to schedule
01:02:20uh growth and opportunities that you
01:02:22guys mentioned i think the list of
01:02:23questions that were called out earlier
01:02:26the tenants the reading i would
01:02:29definitely encourage people to go back
01:02:30to the video after this and get a chance
01:02:32to really take some time
01:02:33like a block of time to carve through
01:02:35carve out to work on those
01:02:37because regardless of where you work or
01:02:38what you're thinking about your ux
01:02:40career now whether you're just coming in
01:02:41or you've been at it a while
01:02:43we're all on this path together about
01:02:45learning and growing
01:02:47um hopefully you've met people in this
01:02:51a great conversation that went on uh if
01:02:55connect outside please you know let
01:02:57people know uh if there's interest in
01:03:00really trying to build a platform uh for
01:03:03people to connect especially out here in
01:03:06um all right those are all the big
01:03:10for the speakers today thank you so much
01:03:14your thoughtful uh answers to our
01:03:16questions for the great talks that you
01:03:18uh to the audience i just want to say
01:03:20this is a quarterly event we'll be back
01:03:23next quarter so please do uh subscribe
01:03:26to the google design channel to follow
01:03:30and one thing i'd really like to say is
01:03:32a huge thank you to the
01:03:34really large google team that put this
01:03:36event together they've done an
01:03:38incredible job and very
01:03:41very grateful to you for all the work
01:03:43and contributions that everybody's put
01:03:46this is a huge team activity that makes
01:03:48this possible for you guys
01:03:50so if anyone has feedback or ideas or
01:03:53comments we'll be
01:03:54writing you afterwards if you registered
01:03:57website and we'd love to hear about that
01:04:00also if you have any
01:04:01suggestions for other speakers that you
01:04:03think would be great
01:04:04that you'd like to hear from or topics
01:04:06you'd like to know about we really read
01:04:08all the comments so we'd love to hear
01:04:12and feedback and just on a closing note
01:04:15i'm wishing you guys a really great year
01:04:17ahead you know this is the first quarter
01:04:19the first event of the year and i think
01:04:21we should all take that as an
01:04:23uh set a path for ourselves intentional
01:04:26with all the changes the world seemed to
01:04:28ourselves uh self-care and growth in the
01:04:32so uh thank you to everyone on the call
01:04:36to the google team and thank you so much
01:04:37for dialing tonight we hope this was a
01:04:40of ux evening cyclical thank you
