00:00hey folks Dr Mike here for anos sounds
00:01periodization today's video is to ask
00:03the question of how different grips and
00:06positions and widths hit your back
00:09differently in rowing and in vertical
00:13pulling let's take a look so first rows
00:17these are all generally so there are
00:19definitely exceptions and your
00:20experience may be different but on
00:22average in most cases there is a little
00:24bit of a difference between how narrow
00:27rows versus wide grip rows hit your back
00:32narrow grip rowing generally hits the
00:34lats proportionately more and other
00:36parts of the back a little bit less wide
00:38grips generally train the rhomboids and
00:40the mid traps kind of what some people
00:42call the upper back a little bit more
00:43and the lats a bit less but really the
00:45main factor here is how that grip
00:48position affect the lines of pull
00:50specifically where your elbow goes so
00:52that's actually the second part of
00:53rowing the question here is what is the
00:56effect of having your elbows flush to
00:58your sides when you're rowing
01:00versus up and out flush through the body
01:03trains more lats it's directly in that
01:04line of pull and up and out trains more
01:08rhomboids and mid traps quote unquote
01:10upper back both positions train the rear
01:13delt similarly and actually I might say
01:16quite well so well in fact that I think
01:19good God I got something in my fucking
01:22it oh I can see oh my God I'm on camera
01:26oh I'm not naked oh well it's not the
01:28dream I had last night the Scott is it
01:30naked I mean that help withs yeah Show
01:34Business see rear delts are trained very
01:37well during back training especially if
01:39you get that deep stretch and a lot of
01:41people will train lots of rear delt work
01:44lots of front delt work and lots of side
01:45delt work and I think most of those
01:46people are better served doing very
01:48little front delt work because all the
01:49chest pressing you're doing trains them
01:51very well very little rear delt
01:53isolation work because all the back work
01:54you're doing trains them very well and
01:56then focusing mostly on side delts in
01:57their delt training which is what I do
01:59in my program what Jared feather ifb Pro
02:01does and it seems to work really really
02:02well there are cases where you can
02:04specialize and focus on the rear and
02:05front delts but back training of all
02:07kinds really trains the rear dos super
02:09super well and it doesn't much matter
02:11where your shit points next more rowing
02:13variations on how they affect the back
02:15development whether you were rowing to
02:18your chest or if you were rowing to your
02:21hips High Row versus low row rowing to
02:24your hips generally trains the lats more
02:26rowing to your chest generally trains
02:28the rhomboids and mid traps more
02:31especially if and usually because when
02:34you low row you low row when you low row
02:38actually works both ways when you row
02:40low you usually because you're trying to
02:43go low you push your elbows down and it
02:45ends up flushing your elbows to the
02:47sides and when you're rowing High
02:49imagine doing a high row but with your
02:50elbows to the sides the fuck does that
02:53even look like when you're rowing High
02:55almost always you'll catch your elbows
02:57and pull up and out so yes rowing to the
03:00hips hits the lats more rowing to the
03:02chest and higher hits the upper back a
03:04bit more but mostly that's an artifact
03:07of where your elbows end up going so the
03:09real critical thing to understand here
03:10is elbows in and flush more lats elbows
03:14up and out more rhomboids teras major
03:18mid traps lower traps quote unquote
03:21upper back lastly for rowing is the
03:23question of overhand versus neutral
03:26versus underhand position for back
03:29activation and growth it seems to me my
03:32best guess is that there actually no big
03:34differences here mostly these things end
03:36up being a proxy for elbow position
03:38anyway overhand grip means more flared
03:41elbows in most cases neutral
03:43automatically brings your elbows in most
03:45cases flush to your sides and thus
03:47neutral is more for lats but it's not
03:49the neutrality of it because if you take
03:50a close grip on a on a row you can still
03:53push your elbows in just as much neutral
03:55grip kind of guarantees that but an
03:57overhand grip can still hit your lats
03:59exactly as much as a neutral grip will
04:01and underhand typically also lets you
04:03bring your elbows in more naturally so
04:06really it's just about elbow position in
04:08most cases and not about which grip you
04:10take so if you're like wondering if you
04:12want to hit your lats more or kind of
04:13your upper back more and you're like ooh
04:15should I do overhand or neutral or
04:17underhand grip for rowing it just
04:19doesn't seem to matter much which really
04:20is another way of saying that there's
04:21kind of no wrong answers and do whatever
04:23you want as long as your elbows are
04:24flush to your sides you're hitting lots
04:26of lats and if your elbows are up and
04:27out you're going to be hitting less lats
04:29and more of what many people would call
04:31your upper back though I thought the
04:32lats were part of the upper back the
04:34fuck do I know now next part second part
04:36of the video vertical pulling okay
04:38pull-ups assisted pull-ups pull Downs
04:39Etc narrow grips allow you to stretch
04:43the lats more at the top and because
04:44that stretch is so muscle growth
04:46promoting narrower grip vertical pulling
04:49generally trains the lats a little bit
04:50more wider grip is okay for variation
04:53and to get good at wider grip but too
04:56wide a grip means most of the muscles of
04:57the backs don't get a very good
04:59stretching anymore especially with the
05:00lats and I think it's just a net
05:02negative so what I would say another way
05:04is you can totally use wide grip
05:06vertical pulling for variation just if
05:08it feels good good stimulus to fatigue
05:10ratio but unless you're compelled to do
05:13that I would say medium and closer grip
05:16on vertical pulling generally trains the
05:18lats and really most of the back a
05:20little bit better than wider grip on
05:22average next is elbows flush to the side
05:26or out I think there aren't any huge
05:29differences as long as the elbows Point
05:31towards the hips at the bottom so what
05:33do I mean by that I mean that if you
05:35bring your elbow down in front of you
05:37and then it points down to the hip at
05:38the bottom you're hitting a lot of lats
05:39and a lot of back if you bring your
05:41elbows out from the sides and Arc but
05:44the arc ends up not going back to like
05:47behind you but all the way down to still
05:51hips you're still getting an
05:52unbelievable back and lat stimulus so
05:55the good news here is that because both
05:57elbows out and elbows flush hit the back
06:00and lats very similarly in vertical
06:01pulling if you bring the elbows to point
06:04down to your hips at the very end and
06:05then Arc whichever way you want be it up
06:07or be it forward it's easy to just use
06:10them both as excellent variations so you
06:11can use one variation for a while it
06:13gets a little stale on you you switch to
06:15another one no big deal for me if I keep
06:17my elbows flush it does seem to hit the
06:19lats a little bit more but I don't think
06:21that's a Dependable thing I would say
06:23works for everyone try it yourself let
06:25us know in the comments which one seems
06:26to work a little better for you but
06:28remember something working a little
06:30better doesn't mean it's better forever
06:32if you prefer pasta versus rice 60% of
06:35the time that doesn't mean you never eat
06:37rice again that means you might eat
06:38pasta more often but at some point your
06:40girlfriend's like hey do you want to do
06:41Italian you're like H let's do Chinese
06:43man I'm feeling some rice and she's like
06:44I thought you don't like rice like I
06:46like pasta better but you get sick of
06:47everything so just the same way if
06:49you're doing a lot of neutral grip
06:50pulling with your elbows flush yeah it's
06:52great but at some point you're going to
06:53get like some dings and wears and tears
06:55and the fatigue is going to suite and
06:57you're going to have a situation where
06:58it's a stale and you're going to want to
07:00do some maybe wider grip work maybe with
07:01your elbows coming out and it's still
07:03excellent excellent back work is going
07:04to work super well for you couple months
07:06later you're like ooh I missed the
07:07neutral grip shit and you're going to go
07:09back to that next variation in vertical
07:11pulling is where to pull do you pull
07:13somewhere uh to roughly the clavical
07:15area or do you pull down to the nipple
07:18line which is a fun thing to say in most
07:21contexts I've actually said the word
07:22nipple line in a formal University class
07:25of dozens of students those were
07:26learning about training technique and I
07:28swear to God every time you say this in
07:30public at least one person you can tell
07:33them trying to squash the biggest giggle
07:34of their life you're like and the nipple
07:36line you look around the room and some
07:39like be like really Jim what part of
07:42that is funny to you nipples nipples are
07:45hilarious they're just this huge comedy
07:47Trope Jim why don't you stand up and
07:49write tell us a story about nipples and
07:51why they're hilarious of course at that
07:53point I think you're technically
07:55harassing your students maybe even
07:56sexually that's why I got fired from the
07:58University and no no wait it was for
07:59something else nah never can't tell in
08:01any case clavicles versus nipple line
08:05where to pull cuz it's going to feel a
08:06little bit different I don't think that
08:09there is a huge difference which one you
08:11pull to is just variation so sometimes
08:13you pull to the nipple line for a while
08:16and that feels really great then it
08:17feels a little stale you start pulling
08:18to the clavicle so you can maintain a
08:19more vertical posture it feels great I
08:21don't think there's any wrong answers
08:23there lastly for vertical pulling what's
08:25the difference between overhand neutral
08:27and underhand grips I think again it's
08:31just a matter of how this affects elbow
08:32position if you pull vertically overhand
08:35and your elbows end up kind of behind
08:38bottom not going to be as much work for
08:40your lats and more for your upper back
08:43whereas if you pull overhand but you
08:45make sure to really drive your elbows
08:46down to your hips then it really isn't
08:48much different or different at all than
08:50a neutral grip or an underhand grip but
08:52in most cases a neutral grip or a close
08:54underhand grip will promote your elbows
08:57going down to your hips anyway and thus
08:58probably hit the last a little better
09:00now I love overhand pull-ups they are my
09:04favorite type of Pull-Up by a mile and I
09:06get the craziest stimulus to fatigue
09:08ratios for them so I can tell you this
09:09even though overhand pulling is by a
09:11small margin a little bit more
09:13challenging uh way to which to hit the
09:16lats and neutral and underhand puts you
09:18in a slightly predetermined better
09:21position for that for me and for many
09:23others even still overhand pull-ups and
09:25pull Downs are still my best choice
09:27they're still the best sfr for me so
09:29what I'm saying is here there are these
09:30margins that are like by a really small
09:34margin on average for people neutral
09:37grip and underhand might promote
09:39slightly better lat growth but there are
09:41more exceptions than there are rules in
09:43this case and at the end of the day the
09:45stimulus to fatigue ratio you feel how
09:47pumped the lats are getting how pumped
09:48your back is getting how tired it's
09:50getting how sore it's getting how much
09:52stronger you're getting over time versus
09:54how much it hurts the joints and how
09:55tough it feels if you get all the right
09:57answers just follow what your person
09:59personal sfr is if it starts to degrade
10:01and go stale switch grips switch
10:03exercises find whatever works best for
10:05sfr cook that for a few weeks few months
10:08when it gets stale you just repeat the
10:10process and continue so to wrap up this
10:13video the tldr here is this back growth
10:16is much simpler than many people would
10:18have you believe now some people have
10:21trouble connecting with their back they
10:23have trouble connecting with their lats
10:25the traditional exercises don't seem to
10:27work well for them in that case go give
10:30CM Hansen a follow on Instagram I think
10:32he has a YouTube too and he'll do all
10:34the he'll teach you all the Cass
10:35bullshit which is term I came up with uh
10:37ironically and it's all this great
10:39exercises that are for one arm specific
10:41kind of reach around pull around type of
10:43stuff and it really lets you develop an
10:45awesome mind muscle connection with
10:46especially your lats and other parts of
10:48your back as well on occasion some folks
10:50May really benefit from that stuff but
10:53most people will do amazingly well with
10:56back work of every single different kind
10:58of variety so what I'll say this uh to
11:01you is two things if you're a beginner
11:03intermediate do all the grips that you
11:06think are fun and you think are cool to
11:07try do all the different positions pull
11:09High pull low pull to nipples pull to
11:12clavicle underhand overhand neutral it's
11:14all right answers you just use all the
11:16variations your back is going to get big
11:18as you get more advanced you may notice
11:20that some of those lines of pull are
11:22better for you than others and then
11:24definitely make more inroads on the ones
11:25you feel the most benefit from and if
11:28you're struggling with the traditional
11:29exercises and you've already mastered
11:31what you think is a very good technique
11:33try some unconventional exercises that
11:35someone like uh cassm Hansen can teach
11:37you in that case you might be able to
11:39really work on those exercises really
11:41get some great gains and then maybe take
11:43your new found Bine muscle connection
11:45and be like oh my God I can now do
11:48pull-ups way more productively because I
11:50know what it's like to feel a lat
11:51contraction give that some thought let
11:53us know in the comments which what your
11:56experiences are with your own back
11:58training which grips and positions and
12:00pulling angles you have found to be best
12:03for you and maybe I'll get in there and
12:05comment and maybe I'll just look at the
12:06comments and just just watch and he
12:09listens and he waits and he never
12:11comments cuz he's so
12:16yeah I'm fucking weird all right I'll go
12:19be weird somewhere else see you guys
