00:01Thanks for having me, Sam.
I'm Stanley.
00:03I'm the founder of DoorDash
and it's really amazing to
00:08be here because it wasn't
actually that long ago
00:12where I sat in your seats I
was class of 2014.
00:17Graduated in CS, as well as
my co-founder, Andy.
00:19And, for those of you who
don't know what Doordash is,
00:22we're building an on-demand
delivery network for
00:26And I wanna start off with
this photo that I
00:29took just a few months ago,
and I think
00:32this was the night when we
just raised our series A.
00:37And I took this photo as I
was walking back
00:41I actually lived in Robly at
the time, on campus.
00:44And, I took this photo
because I realized just how
00:47ridiculous the combinations
of things I was holding in
00:50my hand at that time, and
00:52I was holding my CS 247
homework.
00:55And then, I had my tax
forms,
00:57since it was April and I had
to fill out taxes.
01:00And then also that yellow
speeding ticket,
01:02and then right below that
was a $15 million
01:07dollar piece of paper I just
signed from Sequoia.
01:10And that kind of summarizes
just how ridiculous our
01:15journey has been, you know,
starting at Stanford.
01:18Doing this while I was at
Stanford, and
01:20then transitioning this into
an actual startup, and
01:23I want to share that story
with you today.
01:27It all began two years ago,
actually,
01:29in a macaron store, it was
my junior year at Stanford.
01:34This was fall quarter, and
01:36at that time, I was really
passionate about, you know,
01:39how do you build technology
for small business owners?
01:41And I sat down Chloe, the
owner of,
01:44you know, Chantal Guillon,
01:45a macaron store in Palo Alto
at that time.
01:48Just interviewing her, you
know,
01:50trying to get feedback on
this product prototype we'd
01:54And also just learning
about,
01:55you know, what her problems
were in general.
01:57And it was during this
meeting when Chloe first
02:01brought up this problem of
delivery.
02:03You know, I remember she
took out this really,
02:06really thick booklet.
02:07And she showed me pages and
pages of delivery orders.
02:12And a lot of these orders
she had to turn down because
02:15there's no way she could
have fulfilled them,
02:17as she had no drivers and
she was the one who ended up
02:20having to personally deliver
all these orders.
02:25And that was a very
interesting moment for us.
02:27And then we felt next, over
the next course of,
02:31over the course of the next
few weeks, we talked to,
02:33you know, around another
150,
02:35200 small business owners,
and when we brought up
02:38this idea of delivery, they
kept, you know, they kept,
02:41you know, agreeing with us,
saying yeah,
02:43this is a really big problem
for us, you know.
02:45We don't have a delivery
infrastructure.
02:47It's such a huge pain for
us.
02:49There's not any good
solutions out there.
02:51And which led us to wonder,
you know,
02:54delivery is such a common
thing.
02:55You know, it's such an
obvious thing.
02:56Why hasn't anyone solved
this before, right?
02:59Like, we must be missing
something here.
03:01So, we thought maybe because
people have tried this in
03:05But they failed because
there wasn't consumer demand
03:09So we thought, okay, how can
we test this hypothesis?
03:13You know, we were just a
bunch of college kids at
03:16You know, we didn't own
trucks or
03:18delivery infrastructures, or
anything like that, right.
03:21We can't just spin up a
delivery company overnight.
03:25So, how can we test this
assumption we had?
03:28So we decided to create a
simple experiment
03:32with restaurant delivery.
03:34We spent about an afternoon
just putting
03:37together a really quick
landing page.
03:39And, when I went on the
internet,
03:42I found some PDF menus of,
you know,
03:45restaurants in Palo Alto
stuck it up there and
03:49then had a phone number at
the bottom, and
03:51which was our personal phone
number, actually.
03:54And that was it, we put up
the landing page,
03:56we called it
PaloAltoDelivery.com.
03:59And this is actually what it
looked like.
04:01You know, super, super, you
know, simple, ugly,
04:06like honestly, we weren't
really expecting anything.
04:09We just launched it.
04:10And all we wanted to see
was, you know,
04:14would we get phone calls
from this?
04:16And if we got enough phone
calls, then maybe
04:20this delivery idea was
something worth pursuing.
04:23So we put it up there,
04:24we weren't really expecting
anything, and
04:25we were driving back home.
04:27And all of a sudden we got a
phone call, you know?
04:30Someone called, they wanted
to order Thai food.
04:34And we're like, oh wow, this
is a real order.
04:37we have to do something
about it, right?
04:40So, so we were in our cars,
and we're, like,
04:45okay, like, we're not doing
anything right now.
04:48Might as well just, let's
just swing by, you know,
04:49Siam Royal, pick up some Pad
Thai and
04:52let's just deliver it to
this person, and
04:54let's try to learn how this
whole delivery thing works.
04:57delivered to this guy up in
Alpine Road.
05:00I remember, he told us, I
was asking, oh,
05:04how did you hear about us?
05:07And he told us he was a
scholar.
05:10And then he handed me his
business card, and it
05:12said he was the author of a
book called Weed the People.
05:16And that was like our first
ever delivery, right?
05:20It was like the best
delivery, first
05:22delivery/worst delivery you
could have asked for.
05:26You couldn't make this stuff
up.
05:29And, again, in the next day,
05:30we got, you know, two more
phone calls.
05:33But yet, the day after that,
we got five, and
05:35then it became seven, and
then it became ten.
05:37And then, soon, we started
gaining traction on campus
05:40with paloaltodelivery.com
which was pretty crazy.
05:46Because think about it,
05:46right, this was a landing
page.
05:49You have to look up PDF
menus to place your order,
05:53and they have to call in.
05:55This isn't exactly the most
professional looking site,
05:58yet people were still, we
kept getting phone calls.
06:01We kept getting orders.
06:03And, that's kind of we knew
we were on to something,
06:06when people were willing.
06:10knew we found a need people
wanted,
06:11when people are willing to
put up with all this.
06:14So I think another key point
to remember is
06:19we launched this in about an
hour, right.
06:21Like we didn't spend, you
know.
06:22We didn't have any drivers.
06:24We didn't have any
algorithms.
06:26We didn't spend, you know.
06:28We didn't have a back-end.
06:29We didn't spend 6 months
06:30building like a fancy
dispatch system.
06:33We didn't have any of that.
06:36Because at the beginning,
06:37none of that is necessary,
right?
06:39At the beginning, it's all
about testing your idea,
06:42trying to get this thing off
the ground.
06:44And figuring out whether
this was
06:45something people even
wanted.
06:48And it's okay to hack things
together at the beginning.
06:52At YC there's a mantra, we
like to
06:55talk about is doing things
that don't scale.
06:57So at the beginning we were
the delivery drivers.
07:02Now, we would, you know, go
to class and
07:04then after class we'll go,
you know, deliver food.
07:07We were the, you know,
custom support.
07:09Like, I sometimes had to
07:11take phone calls during
lecture.
07:15We spent afternoons just
going down University Avenue
07:18passing out flyers about,
kinda promote DoorDash.
07:22I mean, we didn't have any
dispatch systems.
07:24So what we had to do was,
you know,
07:26we used Square to charge all
of our customers.
07:29We used Google Docs to keep
track of our orders.
07:34we used Apple's Find My
Friends to keep track of
07:37where all of our drivers
were.
07:38You know, stuff like that.
07:40Just figuring out like
what's,
07:42just hacking together
solutions,
07:44just trying to get this
thing off the ground.
07:47In fact, at one point we
were growing so fast that
07:50Square actually shut our
account down because we
07:52were under suspicions for
money laundering.
07:56>> Think about it, we were
getting small chunks of
07:58like $15, $20 orders coming
in at a rapid pace.
08:04Luckily, my co-founder Tony
worked at Square, so he just
08:06e-mailed some buddies there
and everything was solved.
08:13>> Yeah, and another thing
about doing
08:16things that don't scale, is
that it also allows you to
08:19become an expert in your
business.
08:21Right?
Like driving,
08:22helps us understand how the
delivery process worked,
08:25We used that as an
opportunity to talk to
08:28customers, talk to our
restaurants.
08:32We did dispatching which
helped us figure out,
08:34you know, how we manually
dispatched every driver.
08:38And that helped us figure
out, you know,
08:40what our driver assignment
algorithm should look like.
08:43We did customer support
ourselves, you know?
08:45Getting real time feedback
from our customers.
08:49I remember, you know, for
08:50the first few months when we
got started,
08:53we would manually e-mail
every single one of our
08:57And at the end of every
night, and
08:59just asking them oh,
09:01how was your first delivery,
how did you hear about us?
09:04And we would personalize all
these e-mails, right?
09:06Like if I see someone order
chicken skewers from
09:09Oren's Hummus, I would say
oh,
09:11like, I love Oren's hummus.
09:13You know, how were your
chicken skewers?
09:18How did the first delivery
went?
09:19You know, just feedback like
that was really valuable and
09:22customers really, really
appreciated that.
09:24And I remember one time,
09:30this is during YC, we were
out of, we just came out of
09:35a meeting with one of our
restaurant partners, and,
09:37you know, we wanted, we
heard about this ice
09:40cream store that just opened
up, you know,
09:42on University Avenue, called
Cream, and
09:44we wanted to go try it out.
09:46And then, all of a sudden,
our co founder back at our,
09:49you know, office/house
texted us saying, oh we need
09:53drivers on the road, we, we
got a huge spike and demand.
09:57So we debated for maybe, you
know,
09:59ten seconds like should we
go get ice cream or
10:01should we go deliver?
10:04Obviously, we went and
delivered.
10:06But that kinda became our
motivation on,
10:08you know, scaling, right.
10:09Like if we can scale then,
10:12you could go get ice cream
next time.
10:16So yeah, I think that kinda,
and now,
10:18of course, we've scaled up
across different cites.
10:21Now you have to worry about
building out
10:23automated solutions and
dispatch systems, and
10:25figuring out how do you
match demand and
10:27supply, and all that fancy
technology stuff.
10:31But none of that mattered at
the beginning.
10:33Because at the beginning,
10:34it's all about getting this
thing off the ground and
10:36trying to find product
market fit.
10:39So, just to summarize.
10:43So the three things I would
say that I learned from
10:47doing DoorDash is first,
test your hypothesis,
10:49you wanna treat your startup
ideas like experiments.
10:53T he second thing is launch
fast.
10:54We launched in, you know,
less than an hour,
10:56where we released a full
landing page.
10:59And finally, it's okay to do
things that don't scale.
11:02Doing things that don't
scale is one of your biggest
11:04competitive advantages when
you're starting out.
11:07And you can figure out how
to
11:09scale once you have the
demand.
11:11And, maybe once you've
scaled,
11:13then you go get that ice
cream.
11:21>> How did your first
customer hear about you?
11:29>> Yeah.
So the question was,
11:32how did our first customer
hear about us?
11:34Our very first one, I have
no idea.
11:36We just launched
PaloAltodelivery.com.
11:39We didn't do any marketing.
11:41So I assume he just must
have
11:43typed in Palo Alto delivery
into the web browser.
11:46And then after that,
11:47we didn't do, we did barely
any marketing.
11:50I think I sent out like one
email to my dorm.
11:53And that was about it.
11:54It was all through word of
mouth and
11:56that kind of just validates.
11:59You know, just how strong of
a need you found.
12:00You know, when people just
start talking about you and
12:03they're willing to put up
with all this, you know,
12:06terrible user experience,
terrible design, and
12:11>> When you started, it
seemed so obvious that you
12:14were wondering why no one's
done this.
12:15What's your answer now?
12:17>> Yeah, I mean, looking
back, I think,
12:21I think the biggest thing is
mobile.
12:27The fact that now everyone
has one of
12:29those in their pocket.
12:30And we kinda saw that trend
and thought, you now,
12:34what if you can design, you
know, a delivery system
12:37that's entirely based off
mobile, where you don't have
12:40to have any infrastructure
or delivery fleets.
12:44Instead, you could, you
know,
12:46instead of hiring drivers
full time,
12:47purchasing vehicles, what if
you can tap into a more
12:51on demand pool of
independent contractors, and
12:54only send orders to them
when they have time.
12:58So, that's kind of the, the
insight we had,
13:00we, everything was done
through mobile.
13:07>> Did you know you were
gonna be a startup, or
13:08just making some money on a
website, at first?
13:12>> Yeah, I mean, at the time
we just wanted, we're all
13:13really passionate about
building technology for
13:16small business owners.
13:19And honestly, this delivery
things came out of
13:20an experiment, right, with
the landing page.
13:23Like it was literally an
experiment.
13:25We didn't, we weren't
expecting anything and
13:27it just took off, and we
went with it.
13:30And logistics was always
something we were
13:32really passionate about as
well.
13:33You know like logistics,
transportation.
13:35It was kind of the perfect
fusion of, you know,
13:39how do you help small
business owners do delivery?
13:45>> Do you launch the mobile
app first or the website?
13:49And how long did it take
from idea to
13:54>> Yeah, we started with
13:55this landing page right
here.
13:58Took us an hour to launch.
14:05>> How does DoorDash stand
out in
14:08a space filled with and
other companies.
14:13>> Yeah, the question was
how does DoorDash stand out
14:17among a very competitive
space.
14:18I mean, at the beginning, I
mean for us, consumer demand
14:22has never been the problem,
even up until now.
14:25So, for us it's just about,
you know, finding a need and
14:29just focusing on serving
that demand.
14:32So, in the beginning,
competition doesn't really
14:34matter when you're getting
started.
14:44>> Yeah, question was how
long it took for
14:46us to incorporate into a
company?
14:48When we went through YC.
14:49So, we launched in January
2013, and
14:52then we did YC that very
summer, and we, when we
14:54decided to take this idea
through YC, we incorporated.
15:06Yeah you.
>> What do
15:07you plan to do next, or
where do you plan to go
15:09with this besides like food
delivery?
15:12>> Yeah I mean, the question
was where do we plan to
15:14go beyond food delivery?
15:15I mean for us, when we
started door dash it
15:19was always like I said
about.
15:23Helping small business
owners and
15:24figuring out, how do you
service for
15:27any local merchant, whether
you are a Macaron store or
15:30a restaurant or a furniture
shop.
15:35I mean, that's still our
focus,
15:37that's like the long-term
vision.
15:39For now we're just focused
on rush on
15:40delivery as a way to scale,
but
15:43ultimately that's where we
want it end up in.
15:54>> Okay, next is Walker
Williams from Teespring,
15:57Teespring at the YC, you're
in Africa?
16:00>> Yeah.
>> I almost rejected them.
16:02Sounds like a dumb idea but
16:04now they're doing hundreds
of millions of
16:05dollars a year of revenue so
very lucky to have him.
16:08And Walker's gonna talk also
16:10about doing things
non-scale.
16:15Thank you guys for having
me.
16:18I'm the CEO and founder of
Teespring, for
16:20those of you guys who don't
know what Teespring is.
16:23We're an e-commerce platform
that allows entrepreneurs to
16:27apparel brands without
risks, costs or compromise.
16:31Today the company is about
180 folks and
16:34we ship tens of thousands of
products each day,
16:37and I wanna talk to you
about one of the most
16:40fundamental advantages you
have as a start-up and
16:44that's you're able to do
things that don't scale, and
16:48I define things that don't
scale as things that
16:51are sort of fundamentally
unsustainable.
16:54they will not bring in the
millionth user and
16:57where they break, it's
usually time, but
16:59it could be a number of
other things.
17:00But it's really growth
17:01strategies that won't take
you to a million users and
17:06there's three real places I
wanna focus on today.
17:08First one is finding your
first users.
17:10The second one is turning
those users into champions,
17:14and the third one is finding
your product and market fit.
17:18So finding your first users,
the first thing you have to
17:22understand is that there is
no silver bullet for
17:25Everybody and this includes
me when we got started,
17:29you look for that, that
dream solution,
17:31that pay-per-click campaign
that has tremendous ROI.
17:35Some accelerating
partnership that's gonna
17:37springboard you into the
stratosphere, an affiliate
17:40agreement, something that
solves it for you.
17:42But the reality is for
17:43the vast majority of
companies and
17:45in fact, for every company
that I've had the chance to
17:48speak to CEO of, that's just
not possible.
17:50Those are unicorns and
17:52most of the companies that
from the outside look
17:54like they've had this dream
growth curve.
17:57The reality is that those
first users were impossibly
18:00hard to get and let me tell
you about
18:04the story of a ridiculously
unsustainable business.
18:08So, this is teespring in
2012.
18:10When we first got, when we
first launched the business
18:16couldn't have looked worse
it took days of meetings.
18:19We had to offer free design
and
18:21days of revisions back and
forth.
18:23We'd have to launch the
product ourselves.
18:24We'd have to do the social
media.
18:26All the sell like 50 shirts
for a local non-profit, and
18:30generate $1,000 of revenue,
18:32anybody looking in would
have said.
18:34You guys need to give up,
this is a terrible idea.
18:38But as time went on, those
users started to
18:41add up and I think something
you have to
18:44understand is that when you
first launch a company,
18:46just by virtue of the fact
that it's a new product,
18:49you're gonna be bad at
selling it, right?
18:51You've got no idea what the
paying points of customers
18:56You've never sold it before.
18:57You don't have any success
stories to point to or
19:00Those first users are always
going to be the hardest, and
19:04so it's your responsibility
as a founder to do
19:08whatever it takes to bring
in your first users and
19:12it's gonna be different for
every company.
19:14The common thread that I
hear is founders need to
19:18spend personal time and
effort.
19:19A lot of their personal time
and
19:21effort to bring those users
in themselves,
19:23it can mean a number of
thing.
19:25Everything from sending 100
emails a day, getting on
19:29the phone and just calling
as many people as you can,
19:32going through a network,
19:33if you have a network like
Standford or Y Combinator.
19:37Anything you can do to get
that first user and I really
19:41equate it to pushing a
boulder up a hill and
19:45if you think of like a very
sort of smooth hill,
19:48when you get started.
19:50The incline is the steepest
in those first inches are
19:52the hardest and over time as
you get farther and farther.
19:55The incline stays out, it
gets easier and
19:58hopefully, eventually you
reached a point where you're
20:00at the top of the hill and
the boulder starts to
20:02roll on its own, and so
those first users,
20:05you just cannot focus on ROI
in the sense of time.
20:09Do not expect to spend an
hour and
20:11return thousands of dollars.
20:13Maybe Stanley is one of
those unicorns that was
20:15a pretty incredible story.
20:16But for most of us those
first users
20:20are going to take a lot of a
hand holding, a lot of
20:22personal love and that's
okay, that's essential for
20:26building a company, and the
one sort of caveat of that
20:30is that I don't recommend
giving away your product for
20:33free and there's plenty of
exceptions to this rule.
20:36But in general cutting costs
or giving the product away
20:41is an unsustainable strategy
I wouldn't recommend.
20:43You need to make sure that
users value your product and
20:48people have a different,
they treat products that
20:52are free in a much different
way than a paid product and
20:55often times it can give you
a false sense of security if
20:58oh, we're getting all these
users surely we
21:00can convert them over to
paid.
21:03The second aspect is what
happens when you get those
21:05users, how do you turn those
users into champions and
21:08a champion is a user who
talks about and
21:11advocates for your product.
21:13And I'm a firm believer that
every company with a great
21:17growth strategy has users
who are champions and so
21:20really the easiest way to
build.
21:23Turn a user in to a champion
is to delight them with
21:27an experience their gonna
remember so
21:28something that's unusual or
21:30out of the ordinary an
exceptional experience and
21:34the easiest way to do this
early and
21:37again something that is
completely unsustainable,
21:39it's not gonna scale forever
is to just talk to
21:43those users and people will
say this all the time,
21:46It's one of the sort of core
tenants of why
21:48combinators talk to users
but I cannot stress
21:52how important it is that you
spend a large chunk of your
21:56time talking to users, and
you should do it constantly,
22:01every single day and as long
as possible.
22:05I'm still the catch all
email address, so
22:07anytime somebody misspells
support or writes an email
22:11address that doesn't exist,
I get that email, and so
22:14I still do about 12 to 20
customer service tickets
22:18I spend hours each night
reading every single tweet,
22:21probably a little bit OCD,
but that's okay.
22:24I read through all the
Teespring communities.
22:26You're never gonna get a
better sense for
22:29your product than actually
listening to real users, and
22:33especially in the early
days, you're just,
22:36the products you launch
with, and
22:37the features set you launch
with, is almost certainly
22:40not going to be the feature
set that you scale with and
22:44the quicker you talk to
users and
22:46learn what they actually
need,.
22:48The faster you can get to
that point.
22:50So there's three ways to
talk to your customers,
22:53you can run customer service
yourself,
22:55up until Teespring was doing
about $130-$140,000 a month
23:01my co-founder Evan and
23:02I did everything in customer
service.
23:05This is one that there's
gonna be an instinct to
23:07quickly pass off and that's
because it's painful.
23:11Even today, when I open our
customer service
23:13portal, I have like an
emotional reaction where my
23:17stomach sinks because it
sucks talking to users
23:21who have had a terrible
experience and it's painful.
23:23It's something that you love
and you put so
23:25much effort into and you've
gotten it wrong or
23:29they've had a terrible
experience or
23:30somebody didn't treat them
right.
23:33But it's so important that
you go through that and
23:36learn what you need to
build, what you need to fix.
23:39The second step is to
proactively reach out
23:42to current and churned
customers and
23:44churned customers are
customers who have left, and
23:46this is one that often falls
by the wayside in sort of.
23:50The pursuit of new customers
but you wanna make sure that
23:54your customers are having a
consistent, good experience.
23:58You don't wanna just leave
those current users as
24:00sort of, you don't want take
them for granted and
24:03then when a user actually
leaves your service,.
24:06You wanna reach out and
24:07find out why both because
that personal outreach can
24:10make the difference between
leaving and staying.
24:13Sometimes people just need
to know that you care and
24:15it's going to get better and
24:17because even if you can't
bring them back
24:21there's a chance that you
can learn from the mistake
24:23that you made that caused
them to leave and fix it so
24:25you don't churn users out
the same way in the future.
24:28And the final one is, again,
24:30the one that I'm probably
too OCD about, but
24:32it's social media and
communities.
24:34You need to know how
24:35people are talking about
your brand.
24:37You need to reach out and
make sure that,
24:41when somebody does have a
bad experience and
24:42they're talking about it,
that you make it right.
24:46Problems are inevitable in
start-ups,
24:48there's gonna be issues,
24:49you're not gonna have the
perfect product,
24:51things are gonna break,
things are gonna go wrong.
24:53That's not important, what's
important is to
24:57always make it right, to
always go the extra mile and
25:02make that customer happy.
25:03One detractor who has had a
terrible experience on your
25:06platform is enough to
reverse the progress of
25:11It's all it takes is one
person out there to say, no.
25:13You shouldn't use those guys
for X, Y, and
25:15Z reason, to ruin a ton of
momentum.
25:18So even if it's there's
examples in the early
25:22days where we would mess up
massive orders.
25:25We would print the colors
slightly wrong,
25:26it would be the wrong size
and
25:28it would be like half of our
GMV for
25:30that month and we would know
we got it wrong.
25:32The customer would be
unhappy and
25:34sort of this instinct is
well, it's only a little bit
25:37off or it's not completely
wrong it'll be fine.
25:40But the reality is you've
just got to bite the bullet
25:42and make sure that's it
right, and those customers,
25:45the customers that are often
originally the most
25:47frustrated tend to turn into
the biggest champions and
25:51the longest term users.
25:55wanna talk about is finding
product and market fit and
25:59what I mean that is that I
mentioned this earlier.
26:02But the product you launch
with will almost certainly
26:06not be the product that
takes you to scale and so
26:11you're job in those early
moments or
26:13those early days of a
start-up.
26:15Is to progress and iterate
as fast as possible to reach
26:20that product that does have
market fit and as engineers
26:24you're instinct is gonna be
to build a platform with
26:27beautiful clean code that
scales right?
26:30You don't wanna write sort
of duct tape code that's
26:33gonna pile on technical
debt.
26:35But you need to optimize for
speed over scalability and
26:39clean code and sort of an
example of this is,
26:43we had a couple enterprise
customers come to us.
26:45Sort of bigger non-profits
and
26:47say, hey, we really like
your service but
26:50you're missing these
fundamental things.
26:52So we can't, we're not gonna
use it and we looked at sort
26:55of what it would take to
build out those features and
26:58we weren't sure they were
gonna work long-term, but
26:59we wanted to try it.
27:01And my co-founder Evan who
is our CTO and a million
27:05times better developer than
I am, sort of run the map
27:09and figured out that if we
did it the right way.
27:12It was gonna take about a
month to build out
27:15in a start-up, a month you
live in dog years.
27:17A month is a year and that
just wasn't gonna do.
27:20So he actually went out,
duplicated the code base,
27:23duplicated the database and
was able to
27:25basically build a completely
different product that he
27:28didn't have to worry about
the existing users for,
27:31to serve these enterprise
customers.
27:33We gave them the tool,
27:34they on-boarded, they
generate a lot of revenue.
27:36Eventually, we learned what
features were core and
27:39we integrated them into the
core product, but
27:41what would have taken a
month,
27:42we were able to do in three
to four days.
27:48A great rule of thumb is to
only worry about the next
27:53So when you have your tenth
user, you shouldn't be
27:56wondering, well, how are we
gonna serve a million users.
27:59You should be worried about
how are we gonna get to 100?
28:02When you're at 100, you
should think about 1,000.
28:04It's one of those things
where necessity is
28:07the mother of invention of
all inventions.
28:08So, when you hit that
breaking point, like
28:11the Twitter Fail Whale is a
great example and Teespring.
28:15There were months, month
stretches where
28:18every single night, the site
would crash, every night and
28:21during the day and every
single person on the team
28:24would go to sleep with their
phone on loud under their
28:27pillow so that inevitably,
when the buzzer went off,
28:31we could quickly get up,
restart the servers and
28:32go back to sleep and this
would happen daily.
28:35But the reality is that it
was worth it and
28:37you'll end up with these
huge pain points and
28:40all this technical debt and
regret.
28:41But it's worth it, just to
get to that end goal and
28:46that product fit faster, you
will make it work,
28:49you will survive that those
sort of bumps are just speed
28:54bumps and speed is so, so
important early.
28:59So, the lesson that I've
been learning lately is
29:03you want to do these things
that don't scale as long
29:07There's not some magical
moment,
29:09it's not the series A, it's
not when you hit a certain
29:12revenue milestone that you
stop doing things that
29:15This is one of your biggest
advantages as a company,
29:18and the moment you give it
up.
29:20You're giving your
competitors that are smaller
29:22that can still do things,
that advantage over you.
29:25So, as long as humanly
possible,
29:27as long as it is a net
positive,
29:30you need to be spending time
talking to your users.
29:32You need to move fast in
development,
29:34as fast as possible.
29:36But don't give it up
willingly, it should be
29:39ripped from you, and so sort
of trying to practice what I
29:42preach I wanna give you guys
my email address.
29:45If you guys have any
questions,
29:47if you wanna learn about
Teespring,
29:49if you wanna print some
t-shirts, fingers crossed,
29:51just shoot me an email.
29:52I'd love to help and I'd
love to speak to you.
29:56And the last thing is we've
created an official how to
29:59start a start up tee with
Sam.
30:01And all proceeds are going
to Watsi.
30:03I couldn't miss this
opportunity to sell.
30:05So if you guys wanna grab
one of the official tees,
30:08just go to
teespring.com/startup and
30:11it's supporting a great
cause.
30:24Yep.
The T-shirt printing
30:26business, it seems like it
has a lot of So what made
30:31you, what convinced you, to
think this is a viable
30:33market even with all that's
going on in the world today?
30:38You know, so the question
was, the T-shirt printing
30:41business has a lot of
competition.
30:43What would convince us to
get into the market?
30:45I think there's two factors
to it.
30:47So first, I completely
agree.
30:49From the outside, people
have been telling us
30:51that this is a silly idea
since day one.
30:54And sort of that every order
of magnitude we reach,
30:57people will come and say
hey, that's a terrible,
31:00terrible idea why are you
doing that?
31:02But the reason that we
launched Teespring is
31:05because we ran into a
personal pain point where we
31:09had a need and we looked at
the current solutions.
31:11I was a student at Brown,
and
31:13I was trying to create a
remember the bar shirt for
31:15a dive bar that got shut
down.
31:17And I realized that nothing
needed,
31:19nothing matched my needs.
31:21And so, because I knew that
I had that pain point.
31:25And I knew there was market
fit and
31:26I had seen people adopt the
product.
31:29I knew there was something
there and
31:30it was also one of those
things where you,
31:32you can sort of feel the,
you can sort of
31:36feel the wind on your back
where people are adopting
31:38the product quickly, the
pain point is clearly there.
31:41It's not a met need.
31:43So, I would say that
oftentimes great ideas start
31:47by looking like silly ideas.
31:48And then you can sort of
feel out whether or
31:50not there's a scalable
business here by how people
31:54Is it possible to bring
customers aboard?
31:57Are non-profits your biggest
customer base, like?
32:02No.
You know, today our
32:04biggest customer base are
entrepreneurs who
32:07are trying to build brands
and businesses.
32:09You know, we have a little
over a 1,000 people that
32:12make their full time living
on
32:13Teespring today via brands
they've launched and
32:16the other side is
influencers,
32:18so YouTube stars, Reddit
communities, bloggers who
32:22want to add product
merchandise as a way to sort
32:26of create a brand and and
monetize that affinity.
32:28So those are our two biggest
markets.
32:30We still do work with a lot
of non-profits and
32:33love working with them.
32:34It's still a part of
32:35our business just not the
majority.
32:44All right, now we'll have
Justin talk.
32:45Justin was the founder of
KeyCo, and then JustinTV,
32:48which Twitch and is now and
he's going to talk about PR.
32:59Cool.
Well, while I wait for
33:00the slide to happen, I
started a bunch of startups
33:04but I think you've heard a
lot of awesome, you know,
33:07kind of how did I get
started stories.
33:08So I'm gonna talk about
something very specific,
33:11that people always have
questions with,
33:12which is press and how do
you get it.
33:16It's something, this is kind
of like an abridged
33:17version of what we talked
about at Y Combinator and
33:22hopefully you guys will find
it helpful.
33:24So, you know, a lot of
people,
33:27I think when they first get
started with
33:28entrepreneurship think about
getting press and being in
33:31the press as something that
happens magically.
33:33They think about it as like
something that,
33:35you know, journalists out
there like,
33:37trying to find the best
stories and
33:40really, you know, like,
discover the,
33:41like, it's like a
meritocracy which is like,
33:44absolutely not the case.
33:48So before you think about
press, one of the things you
33:50really want to think about
is who you want to reach and
33:52like what's you actual goal.
33:54Right?
A lot of people,
33:56like I know when I got
started I
33:57wanted to just be in the
news because I
33:58thought that's what like you
did as an important company.
34:01And it turns out if you
don't have any goals
34:04you're not gonna achieve
them.
34:05Right?
I mean that's true of
34:06pretty much everything and
with press,
34:08if you just like, aimlessly
want to be covered,
34:11it's not really going to do
anything for your start up.
34:13So getting like, in the news
is nice because you can send
34:16it to your mom or your, and
say hey, I have a real job.
34:18You know, look, we're in the
New York Times.
34:21But if you don't have a
actual goal for
34:24your, like a business goal
with it,
34:26it's really just like, not a
good use of time.
34:30So, you know, there's many
different goals.
34:31One example is, you know,
you might want to,
34:34with Social Cam, which is a
spin off of Justin TV,
34:36it was like an app that was
kind of
34:39like video Instagram.
34:40And our goal was really to
be known as a video,
34:44like Instagram app, and
34:45like be thought of in that
context when it was,
34:47you know, time to pitch to
our,
34:49like Silicon Valley
investors and influencers.
34:52And so, we really wanted to
get in, like tech press and
34:55kind of be positioned as
this new, hot social app.
34:59With Exec, one of my goals
was a second,
35:04like to get customers.
35:07a cleanings, local cleaning
service and
35:09our goal was to get people
in San Francisco to use it.
35:12It wasn't like useful to get
the national press because,
35:15you know, 99% of those
people couldn't use it.
35:17So, we really targeted
initially a lot of,
35:19you know, like SF Chronicle,
35:21and like local San Francisco
press that would directly
35:24talk to people who could
potentially use our app.
35:26For Twitch which is probably
the thing that you
35:31It was you know, Twitch was
ESPN for gaming or kind of
35:34like a live streaming
community of gamers.
35:37And our goal was to with
press was like to
35:40reach the gaming industry.
35:42Cuz like when we started now
it's like 55 million
35:45like people in the gaming
industry know about it.
35:47But when we started nobody
really knew that like,
35:50it was a place to advertise,
and
35:52like, it wasn't like know as
like a, you know,
35:54we were a very nascent small
gaming community.
35:56And our goal was to like get
people in
35:58the gaming industry, whether
they were developers or
36:00advertisers, to think about
us as like
36:02an important place where
influences were, so
36:04we really targeted industry
trades and game depth logs.
36:08Places where like gamers
wanna have games speed,
36:10stuff like that, the
industry was reading.
36:17what's an actual story, I
think there's, you know,
36:19there's a bunch of different
types of stories but
36:21these are usually the ones
that you see in,
36:23you know, start ups.
36:26Those are like product
launches,
36:27like you let us launch a new
version of your app.
36:29There's fundraising for
36:30whatever reason, you know,
press loves to write about
36:34fundraising even though it's
not very interesting.
36:36So, you know like, if you
raise a $1 million
36:37seaground, pretty much you
can get that covered.
36:41Milestones or metrics like
you've achieved a $1 million
36:44dollars a week in revenue,
that one of our, the,
36:49the company that bought Exec
just announced that they,
36:51they achieved a $1 million
dollars a week in
36:53revenue and was covered
pretty widely.
36:55Business stories which
generally happen when
36:58you're already a successful
company.
37:01Someone like New York Times
or New Yorker, business
37:04magazine will wanna cover
the story of your start up.
37:08Usually don't have to worry
about that in the beginning.
37:11What I like to call stunts,
which are like,
37:13I don't know if you guys
remember, but
37:14a couple of years ago, this
YC company called WePay
37:18dropped a block of ice with
money frozen in it, outside
37:22of the PayPal like, a PayPal
developers conference.
37:24Cuz they were like, PayPal
was like no, in the news for
37:26freezing, you know, like
various developers accounts.
37:31And so that was like, you
know, widely covered.
37:34Because it was just so,
37:34you know, kinda of an
interesting thing and
37:37it really, it got them in
the story, right?
37:40They wouldn't have been
talked about in
37:41the context of PayPal, at
all really.
37:43Hiring announcements,
37:45if you're a big enough
company and
37:46you hire someone really
important,
37:47people will wanna cover
that, and
37:49then contributed articles
like you writing some sort
37:52of industry overview or some
opinion piece in like
37:55maybe a tech blog or stuff
like that.
37:58So those are like, you know,
38:00basically any of those
things can be stories.
38:02One of the things that
people usually don't
38:06Is that, like, you really
have to think about,
38:09like, everything, when you
start a start up,
38:11you think that everything
you're doing is interesting.
38:13But that's not true for,
like, other people.
38:17Right?
Like, what you really need
38:19to think about is, like,
objectively if I
38:21wasn't the founder of this
company, would I wanna,
38:23like, read a story about
what I'm pitching.
38:25Right?
So, you know,
38:27you have incremental feature
release or 2.01, you know,
38:30feature release might not be
interesting.
38:32Just because you added like,
38:33you know, find your contacts
in Facebook or something.
38:37Like you have, you really
want to take a step
38:39back before you invest the
time in like actually trying
38:41to pitch a story and think,
does anyone,
38:43will anyone actually wanna
read this?
38:45Because what people are, you
know, journalist and
38:47bloggers are looking for,
38:48is things that people
actually wanna read right?
38:51The other thing is like,
38:53you don't actually have to
be very original.
38:54Your press in these doesn't
have to be original.
38:58It just has to be like what
I like to call,
39:00original enough, right?
39:01So you don't wanna be the
second cooler company
39:05To raise $5 million on
Kickstarter, right?
39:08That the first guy gets all
the news.
39:10But like if you're there,
39:12I think the first video game
console to
39:15raise $10 million on
Kickstarter like Ouya was,
39:18that was like, it was like
$1 million is 24 hours.
39:20That was huge news because
they
39:22were kinda like the first in
that category, right?
39:24Even though other people
have raised a lot of
39:25money on Kickstarter before.
39:28So just like think about
your stories in
39:31the context of like where
they are in
39:33the like what else has been
written about and if
39:34they're like kind of novel
enough and they haven't been
39:37something that was like just
written about in the news.
39:41So what are the actual
mechanics of
39:46This is like pretty
tactical,
39:49so what if you want to get
your news in, you know,
39:53the press, basically there's
some easy, simple steps.
39:57So it's basically, it's,
getting press is like,
39:59you think of it like a sales
funnel.
40:02So you're gonna talk to a
lot of people,
40:04and not all of them are
gonna convert.
40:07you shouldn't be upset when
someone,
40:08like one individual person
or reporter or
40:11whatever doesn't write your
story.
40:13The first thing is you have
to think of a story, right?
40:15It's gotta be one of those,
40:16probably one of those things
that I listed up before.
40:20you wanna get introduced to
a reporter or multiple
40:24reporters who are gonna
write about your thing.
40:25It's like much, much easier,
40:27just like any sort of
business development to
40:30actually get in touch with
them through someone.
40:33It's like, you know, rather
than cold emailing them,
40:37the best thing to do I've
found is like, you wanna
40:40go to entrepreneurs who were
just written about,
40:43like your friends who maybe
started a start up and
40:44they were covered on
TechCrunch,
40:45get them to introduce you to
your, you know,
40:49that reporter who wrote
about them.
40:52The reason that's good is
because like,
40:53from the entrepreneur's
perspective, like
40:54the easiest thing to do in
the world, is introduce you
40:57to a reporter who already
wrote about them, right?
41:00They don't, like need
anything else from
41:02They're actually doing that
person a favor for
41:04stories interesting.
41:05It's not like you're asking
for
41:06interest to investors, or
potential, you know,
41:08people that they would wanna
hire, employees.
41:11And then, from the
reporter's perspective,
41:13they're getting intro to
someone who, you know,
41:15they already vetted as
interesting.
41:17Like, they're getting an
answer from someone who
41:19thought was interesting
enough to talk about.
41:21And so, like by the
transitive property
41:24you're basically gonna,
they're gonna think you're,
41:26you know, probably
interesting.
41:29So you get like an email
that's like,
41:31you know, from this guy that
introduces you to
41:36you want to get in contact
with them with enough time
41:39that you can actually get
them to like write a story.
41:43Probably a week in advance,
or more.
41:46Because they're not gonna,
like, drop everything their
41:47doing to just write about
your news.
41:48So, a lot of people,
especially first time
41:50entrepreneurs will come and
say,
41:51like, Justin I'm watching
this product tomorrow.
41:54Like, can you get me in
this, you know,
41:57TechCrunch or something.
41:58And that's, like, probably
not gonna happen unless you
42:00already have a relationship.
42:01The best way to do it, so
the best thing to do is,
42:03like, give yourself some
lead time.
42:04Get that intro in advance.
42:06And then, so then you
should,
42:09like, once you've set a date
for your news to go out,
42:12you're gonna launch your
product, like in two weeks,
42:15you have this intro, you set
up some sort of meeting and
42:19you really wanna get the
reporter to,
42:22like, invest time and effort
into you.
42:25like there's kind of a
sunk-cost fallacy at play.
42:30the more time they spend
with you, the more likely
42:33they are to like actually
write something.
42:34So you, the best thing to do
is to get a face to
42:36Lots of people, report
bloggers actively don't want
42:40to meet you face to face.
42:41But like, if not that, then
get like a phone call,
42:44right, and get on the phone
with them.
42:45The worse thing to do is
like,
42:46just have an email exchange,
right?
42:48Because it's very easy for
42:49them to like forget about
it, ignore it.
42:51So you wanna like, actually
try to get in contact with
42:55them, set up a meeting.
42:59the next step is actually
pitch them.
43:01What I usually do is
actually write out all
43:04my new, like the story that
I would want to see
43:07published like in bullet
points.
43:10And I like, will write out
the story,
43:13like my ideal story and I
will memorize it.
43:15Like the entire like set of
bullet points and when I
43:19have a conversation with
them, if it's in person,
43:20I'll like walk them through
this, like I'll have
43:22a conversation that's like
structured like my outline.
43:24And they'll be like taking
notes, right?
43:26And then they'll go and
43:27transcribe those notes into
a story.
43:29And so it's like a tell it,
like what I wrote will
43:31eventually be translated
into a actual story.
43:36And, you know, by preparing
you can actually you know,
43:39much more easily control the
conversation and
43:41not forget critical things
like, you know,
43:43your co-founder, mentioning
your co-founder's name.
43:46what all the features in
your awesome app are.
43:50If it's, I'm doing this on
the phone, I will like,
43:52have this bullet points in
front of me and
43:54I will make sure to like
walk through
43:56a conversation that includes
all of those things.
44:00So, you know, you do that,
they,
44:03you have a pitch, they, they
take notes.
44:04They're gonna write the
story of this time.
44:06And then, the next thing is
like, follow up,
44:08like a couple days, or day
before your actual news goes
44:11out, you want to send them
an email that says, like.
44:15You know, this is the time
we're launching the app.
44:18Like, thanks for meeting,
here's like collateral like
44:21maybe if you have like a
video or photos or
44:23something you want them to
include screen shots.
44:26Like how to spell your
co-founders' names and
44:29Just like include all the
information that I
44:30really care about and I bold
it right?
44:36Then hopefully the day comes
you press submit on
44:39the release to the app store
and
44:41at the same time they
release their article on
44:44TechCrunch and you are
famous.
44:49Okay, so a lot of people ask
us about PR firms.
44:55You know, I think in the
beginning.
44:57It's kind of like everything
else you do at a start,
45:00yourself before you hire
someone else to do it.
45:02And it's actually pretty
easy,
45:04especially with tech press
who,
45:05you know, and bloggers who,
45:07like, constantly need new
things to write about.
45:10I strongly encourage people
to, like,
45:12try it themselves and kind
of get started by learning
45:14the process themselves
before they hire anyone.
45:16One thing I'll say is that
like firms can,
45:18can only help you with like
kind of the contacts and
45:20the logistics, but it can't
help you
45:23know what's interesting
about your company or very,
45:26you know, I've never had
anyone whose been able to
45:27tell me what the stories
that I'm producing are.
45:29They've only been able to
tell me,
45:30you know, like you're you
know, like here's a the,
45:35here's a list of reporters
that you might wanna contact
45:38So, you know, you really
have to be responsible for
45:40thinking about like,
45:41what's interesting about
your company and
45:42what are you doing, you
know, what's the road map of
45:44interesting things that
you're working on.
45:47They're also really
expensive.
45:49You know, I think we were
spending between $5,000 and
45:51$20,000 a month which is
like a very, for
45:54various firms that's a lot
for a start up, right?
45:57You should, it's generally.
45:59Not a good use of money, I
would say.
46:01Especially in the very early
days.
46:04You know, getting press is,
is a lot of work.
46:08So you should really make
sure it's worth it.
46:10You know, like I said it
really,
46:12getting press doesn't mean,
it feels like,
46:14it's like a vanity metric.
46:15Right?
It feels like you're being
46:16successful because lots of
succesful companies.
46:19You know, like Google and
46:19Facebook, are covered in the
press all the time.
46:21But it doesn't actually mean
you're successful.
46:23It doesn't, you know,
actually give you, you know,
46:26mean that you're getting,
you're making money,
46:27you're getting users, you're
making those users happy.
46:31sometimes it's a really good
strategy for
46:33getting your first 100, or
200, or 1,000 customers.
46:37But it's really not a
scalable user acquisition
46:39strategy, so it's something
that's really just like a,
46:41you know, a boot strap.
46:43just get, like, infinity
articles written about you.
46:47Like, eventually people are
going to,
46:48like, get tired of hearing
about your company, and
46:50usually that happens pretty,
pretty quickly, right.
46:52The whole point about news
is that it's new, and so
46:55it's, it's pretty, pretty,
pretty hard, unless your
46:58Google, to get covered in
the press like every week,
47:00you know, with something.
47:02to, you know, if you decide
it's worth it though,
47:04like you do wanna have like
a regular heartbeat of news.
47:07So that's like something
where, you know,
47:09you're planning out those
types of the, what,
47:11your thing about what your
doing, that matches those,
47:13you know, maybe seven story
types in the future like,
47:17you know, when I was You
know, working primarily on
47:19marketing and, and PR, it
would be, I would like,
47:22make a schedule on like a
calendar.
47:25Have what, when we're gonna
launch things and like,
47:27make sure to space them out,
but like have them,
47:29you know, appear regular, at
regular intervals so
47:32that people like didn't want
to forget about us.
47:34And we could kind of
maximize our coverage.
47:37And, you might really want
keep your, you know,
47:40It like, really a
relationships business.
47:41So once you, someone writes
about you,
47:43you should keep going back
to them for, for
47:45more, for writing about,
47:47you know, to write about you
in the future.
47:48It's kind of like, you know,
when, when basically people,
47:52you know, you're more likely
to do something for
47:54someone you've, like,
already done something for.
47:57Yeah, you really, like,
it's, if you just, you know,
47:59I would try to establish
good,
48:01good relationships with a
couple reporters over time
48:04that you can go to to, you
know, break news.
48:06And it, it will come in
48:06handy later if you ever
have, are in the position,
48:08if you're fortunate enough
to be in the position where
48:11people are writing negative
things about you, you know,
48:13having relationships will
help you, you know, kind of
48:15get your side of the story
out, The last thing is like,
48:19you know, it's kind of
Golden Rule really, or
48:22maybe more like a pay it
forward really applies here.
48:24Like, you should really help
your
48:26fellow entrepreneurs get,
48:27get coverage because they
will help you get coverage.
48:30The best way to get covered
is really through these like
48:34And so you know, whenever
I'm meeting with reporters,
48:39Throwing out the names of
like other things that I
48:41think would be interesting
stories for them.
48:43And usually that comes back.
48:44They, the, the reporters
like it, because they,
48:46it's like helping them find
interesting stories.
48:48And you're more likely to
get, you know, leads
48:51back from entrepreneurs that
you help out.
48:53So, if you're interested in
learning more about press,
48:58here's two resources that I
really liked.
49:00Jason Kincaid, who was a
former TechCruch reporter,
49:03just a really, really great
overview that covers a lot
49:05of things I just talked
about, in more depth and
49:08from the, you know, blogger
side.
49:11That was a really great
book.
49:12And then kind of an evil
resource is this book
49:16Trust Me, I'm Lying.
49:17Which was written by the,
49:18one of the a former marketer
at American Apparel.
49:22And he talks about like a
lot of ways that he
49:25pretty like, evilly actually
manipulated the press, but
49:28I think it's a pretty good
look
49:29into like the psychology of
like how people, you know,
49:32things spread on the
internet.
49:34You know, how stories spread
on the internet and
49:37Might be valuable to take a
look at.
49:38Cool, that's, that's
basically it.
49:50>> 2 que, Okay, 2 questions.
49:57>> When is the right time to
start worrying about
50:02>> When is the right time to
50:03start worrying about press
altogether?
50:05I think it's a really good
way.
50:08The first time I launched,
you know,
50:09my first products in our
first startup.
50:12For a lot of them we got
like zero attention.
50:14And we didn't really know
how to even get
50:16I think it's a really fine
way to
50:18get a hundred users and a
lot of.
50:20Companies in YC where they
first launch their
50:21product will encourage them
to get out and
50:23just do one TechCrunch story
to, like, get a few
50:25people to see it, and it's
good to get in the practice.
50:28I wouldn't, like, obsess
over getting, like,
50:30coverage in multiple outlets
or
50:31anything like that in the
very beginning.
50:35All right, anything else.
50:39the biggest story
>> Yeah.
50:41>> Great, so like much of a,
how much of
50:44a role did you guys actually
play in getting that
50:51Twitch, you know, had this
thing called Twitch plays
50:54Pokemon where developers set
up like a Pokemon,
50:57like Gameboy game that was
controlled by chat, so
50:59millions of people would be
typing in A or B, and like.
51:03The character would wander,
wander around aimlessly.
51:06And that was like a huge
news story and I think that
51:10what we did was you know,
there's a couple parts.
51:13One, we set the stage by
having other news
51:15stories that, so when
someone from the BBC would
51:17Google like Twitch and be
like what is this
51:19crazy thing that everyone on
Reddit is talking about?
51:22They would, like, have some
context.
51:24like, we didn't come up with
the idea for twit, right?
51:26That was, like fortuitous.
51:28But we helped, like, give it
legs by, you know,
51:31making the company available
to talk to the reporters,
51:34and, suggesting follow-up
stories about, like.
51:37You know, there were
stories,
51:38not just about Twitch plays
Pokemon,
51:39because a hundred thousand
people were watching this.
51:41Pokemon game, but because
you know, it finally like,
51:45there were stories when they
beat the game.
51:47And there were stories when
they launched Twitch
51:49plays Pokemon, you know,
Crystal, or
51:51whatever the next Pokemon
version was.
51:53we kind of gave that story a
little more legs.
51:56But we didn't, you know,
originate it.
51:58It was the community really
who originated it.
52:07Thank you very much.
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