00:00today I am honored to have my good
00:03Aileen Lee here and we're going to have
00:06a conversation about stuff yeah well I
00:13hope we talk about like alien is is is a
00:17very public personality in the in the
00:20venture world so there's lots of great
00:24talk she has given online and I hope not
00:26to do too much of that with she she
00:28tells a lot of amazing things so it'll
00:29be hard to avoid but so this would just
00:32be the the latest version of pearls of
00:34wisdom from alien but hopefully we'll
00:36try to push the conversation in other
00:38areas if we can so how about a welcome
00:42for Aileen Lee welcome to startup school
00:48thank you I'm happy to be here
00:49so you they might not know that much
00:55about your kind of interesting and I was
00:59the idiosyncratic career that led you to
01:01being the founder of of cowboy ventures
01:04maybe we can just start with you giving
01:07a quick overview of your background I
01:10don't know from the gap to to now we're
01:16definitely going to do a QA and like
01:21your time schedule is actually they can
01:24stay because because the one of the
01:26reasons we're doing this at YC now
01:28instead of at Stanford is that Stanford
01:31you're like constrained or not this is
01:33our building so usually we talk for 30
01:36or 40 minutes and then do a QA
01:37whatever's natural so do you have a hard
01:40stop at all I can't remember but okay
01:42probably okay okay okay hi everyone
01:45thanks so much for spending time here
01:47I'm really appreciative I'm a lean it's
01:50like I am a first-generation immigrant
01:52my parents are both from China so I'm a
01:54very like I grew up in a very
01:56traditional like our family had nothing
01:57we they saved up money to buy Chinese
02:00restaurant people in the family worked
02:02in the Chinese restaurant like and I
02:05grew up in New Jersey so you grew up
02:07with entrepreneurs kind of yeah I mean I
02:10guess I guess I mean I think
02:11immigrants are entrepreneurs right
02:13because you come here with nothing and
02:14you have to figure out how to get a job
02:16and how to find a place to live and how
02:18to make it work and yeah like I think
02:20there's a phrase a kleiner we used to
02:22say like an entre definition of an
02:23entrepreneur is like who does more than
02:25anyone thought possible with less than
02:27anyone thought possible and I think
02:29that's probably true for entrepreneurs
02:31for immigrants as well I bet that
02:32resonates with a lot of people in the
02:34audio and but I was fortunate that like
02:37my parents were very focused on
02:38education so I wanted going to MIT being
02:41in completely over my head and then I
02:44did a mess of banking for a couple years
02:46I guess the idiosyncrasy I lived in
02:48China for a year and taught English and
02:50studied Chinese I went to business
02:52school and at business school I was
02:54always really interested in brands and
02:56in particular consumer brands and how
02:57they generate a lot of working at
02:59customer love and so I cut it and this
03:01is like kind of pre-internet so I used
03:02to go to the library and read Fast
03:05Company and ink magazine to try and find
03:07names of companies that were kind of
03:09up-and-coming and I would then look them
03:10up in the phone book and just so quick
03:13now I went to the library how many
03:15people have gone to the library like
03:17read magazines yeah like five that's how
03:22we did it back then or you could look up
03:24and you could look up older magazines on
03:25something called microfiche raise your
03:29hand if you know what microfiche is oh
03:34and so I found a company called Odwalla
03:36and a company called The North Face and
03:37they're both out here and so I called
03:40like I would just call the phone number
03:41and just ask to talk to whoever would
03:42talk to me and I convinced them to hire
03:43me for the summer so I did like two
03:45months that wanted to month and they're
03:46both kind of private I guess that now
03:48they would because their growth
03:49companies and I did marketing and then
03:52after business school I went to gap and
03:54you know my family was not that into me
03:58going to work for Gap you know he was
03:59and all this time trying to get a good
04:01maybe retail is not the place to go but
04:04I feel really passionate about like I
04:06was gonna have the opportunity work with
04:08really smart people in Gap at the time
04:09was such like a talent magnet in retail
04:12like some I think the smartest planners
04:14and merchants and visual designers and
04:16we're working at the company and we were
04:18just kind of on fire and so I spent
04:21three years working different operating
04:22rules like I worked on the supply chain
04:23projects trying to figure out where
04:25stuff was it's called glass pipeline and
04:27then I got a job I worked as chief of
04:29staff to the CEO for a year kind of just
04:31doing everything from helping prepare
04:33for public company board meetings to
04:35making sure they'd hit a good parking
04:36space when we went to go on store visits
04:39and and then my last job there was the
04:43online store in 1999 and our online
04:46store was just we were Capcom was the
04:48only thing we had we weren't sure if we
04:49were going to Old Navy or Banana
04:50Republic calm because we weren't sure if
04:52this dot-com thing was going to stick
04:53and turned out yeah yeah exactly I think
04:58you and I have been working for you know
04:5920-something years since then we should
05:01have just bought Amazon stock just like
05:03chilled yeah you mean you didn't I did
05:09suggest at one point that that well I
05:11was at Yahoo that we buy Amazon I went
05:14and what happened they think that was a
05:17smart idea they no they said they said
05:19the you know would screw up our multiple
05:21yeah yes I worked with Friendster right
05:28yeah and there was this little startup
05:30called Facebook yeah and I remember
05:32talking to them about maybe I think they
05:34wanted 20 million and we wanted to make
05:3615 stories so anyways I was helping run
05:47the dot-com part of gap in 1999 and it
05:51was exciting but also just not a pure
05:53play tech company and so much was
05:56happening in the.com boom so I just said
05:58you know I think I should go work at a
06:00tech company and so I sent my resume
06:02whoever would read it and I wound up
06:04getting an interview at this from
06:05kleiner perkins and they I think they
06:08thought it would be novel to hire a
06:10woman your gender is what and and also
06:18that I had been chief of staff to the
06:19CEO I think was kind of like a good con
06:21training for to be an associated venture
06:22firm so I went up working for a partner
06:24there named John doar for four or five
06:26years and we just super hit it off and
06:28John is a legend in venture capital and
06:30we were working with like Google and
06:33Amazon and just we had incredible
06:37and got to meet incredible people and I
06:39was also like the the dumping ground of
06:42every business plan that was sent to
06:43kleiner perkins at the time and so every
06:45night I would just take home duffel bags
06:46of printed business plans and read them
06:48and it was an amazing experience and I
06:52it was like a two to three year job
06:53there oftentimes at venture firms it's
06:55very opaque in terms of is like there is
06:57not really a career path and that was
06:59not a career path job but I wound up
07:01staying for 13 years but you stayed for
07:0513 years but there was a gap in the
07:06middle where you became a CEO I always
07:09felt like I didn't have enough operating
07:10experience especially not I hadn't been
07:12a venture backed CEO and I think you
07:15know a lot of this may be old school
07:18thinking but that kleiner the thought
07:20was like you know it's really hard to
07:21give advice to a start-up CEO if you
07:23haven't done it yourself and if you know
07:25haven't run the functions you haven't
07:27lived through the experience you haven't
07:28really put yourself on the line and so
07:30an opportunity came up where a company
07:32that we had invested in and I was on the
07:33board of was had two co-founders and not
07:36neither of them was clearly the CEO and
07:38they asked me to come in and help and I
07:39was really excited to have the
07:41opportunity to work with them and to get
07:42some more operating spirit so I spent I
07:43took kind of two years off from kleiner
07:45and I went and ran this company it was a
07:47digital media company it was like kind
07:48of an ad sales driven business in the
07:51digital life out of home space at the
07:53time there's a company in China called
07:54focus media that had like an eight or
07:55nine billion dollar market cap taking
07:57kind of what had been paper billboards
07:59and turning them into digital and
08:00running basically like kind of a content
08:02management system and kind of like an ad
08:04network for for digital billboards and
08:06that's what we were trying to build at
08:07RMG's I want to be CEO at the time kind
08:10of it was it was a great experience and
08:12we we thought we had our model locked
08:13and loaded in O seven so we raised a
08:15twenty million dollar series B which at
08:18the time in O seven was a big B and
08:20notes like a day yeah exactly now it's
08:22like a seed joke but I have seen seeds
08:26that large right and then you know eight
08:30happened and we went of having to lay
08:33off half the company but then we also
08:34like because we had this nice with a lot
08:36we can we kind of anticipated winter was
08:37coming and we kept our powder dry so we
08:39were able to live through it we went
08:41acquiring two of our closest competitors
08:43and then I replaced myself with like a
08:45better CEO and I went back to kleiner so
08:47it was a I was I felt really fortunate
08:49Akito is hard though really
08:51so do you feel that you were right and
08:54that that experience did help you give
08:57better advice to CEOs and and what so it
09:00might be hard looking back now but what
09:02what did you learn as CEO that informs
09:05the advice you give now I mean I had
09:07never I guess many things one is I'm
09:11kind of a people person I love talking
09:13to people and I saw I thought that would
09:15naturally translate into being a great
09:16manager and I had managed some people at
09:18Gap but not a ton but I think it's very
09:21different being a CEO or a leader where
09:23people you have to first convince them
09:25to work there you know work at your
09:26company and I turned out to be not as
09:29good at this as I thought but we have
09:31different reports like you have a head
09:32of engineering a head of marketing a
09:33head of sales a head of financing they
09:35often have different personalities and
09:37you want them to have different
09:38personalities and they have different
09:39strengths but that means they often if
09:41they managed in different ways like you
09:43have to communicate with them in
09:44different ways and kind of like figure
09:46out what is the style of communication
09:48and rhythm and like what's the what are
09:49the words that are going to help them do
09:51you have to modulate it by person at
09:53least that's what I found and I that had
09:56not been intuitive to me I thought you
09:57could just be yourself and everything I
09:59don't know if you know I I had a mentor
10:02of mine who used to call that touch and
10:05I think one of the things that's
10:06interesting as a start-up founder like
10:08most of the folks in start-up school are
10:11struggling to find product market fit
10:12yeah and they're thinking about that and
10:14I thinking about that and at some point
10:16they sometimes they lose track of the
10:18fact that really especially if for
10:22example they talked to an investor like
10:23you you're evaluating that but you're
10:26also looking at this person and
10:27wondering could you hire a VP of
10:30Marketing a VP of Sales a VP of
10:31engineering can you can you attract the
10:34right people can do you have do you have
10:36what it takes to be a leader as a
10:38founder and I think people sometimes as
10:41you're struggling just to get a customer
10:43you lose track of actually what it takes
10:47to really grow up that's absolutely
10:49right which is and I'm sure we'll talk
10:50about that which is like what are
10:51investors thinking like we're thinking
10:53about short term and long term when we
10:54talk to you like we're thinking about
10:56whether you can accomplish the short
10:57term but also what comes after that and
10:59what comes after that and whether you
11:01are demonstrating that you can parallel
11:04thinking about how the short-term is a
11:06setup for the long-term effect the
11:09reality is the only thing that matters
11:10to investors is the future the present
11:13is only an indication of what the future
11:15may just look like because they're
11:17betting on your future yep exactly
11:20the other thing I'd say I guess many
11:24things about being a startup CEO like I
11:26had never hired salespeople before I
11:28didn't know how to create a compensation
11:30structure for salespeople or you know
11:32I'm like how do you create on it like
11:33sometimes when you do that your comp you
11:35create unintended consequences by how
11:38you compensate people I found like I
11:41hired these you know different kinds of
11:43sometimes experienced people sometimes
11:44inexperienced people like you know what
11:45kind of how do you want to place bets on
11:48people who are unproven versus pay up
11:50for people who are somewhat proven but
11:52sometimes they come out of platforms
11:53where the platform was doing really well
11:55it's not really clear that the person
11:56was really good so I learned a lot of
11:59lessons around that and also just in
12:01sales in general and I'm sure many of
12:03you who are trying to get product market
12:04fit experiences like sialic lead
12:06qualification is really important like
12:08you yourself and your sales team can
12:10deceive yourself into thinking that
12:12making progress by having a lot of
12:13meetings but the reality is a lot of
12:16those leads are never gonna close and so
12:18figuring out like what how should you
12:20spend your time and how do you qualify
12:22leads so that you're really spending
12:24time on the accounts that are a good fit
12:25for you and are actually good closeable
12:27in the time and the money that you have
12:28is something that I have learned the
12:31well that's a good luck I was thinking
12:34about that yesterday because I was
12:35talking to a founder who whose company
12:37was betting on a deal closing and and
12:39that deal just didn't close and we were
12:42talking about it and the problem was
12:44that they didn't really have that bad a
12:47problem like the problem he was solving
12:49it was a problem and they were there was
12:51a few people who kind of interested in
12:52solving it but it wasn't a real heart
12:54problem and those are the wrong
12:56customers to spend a lot of time with
12:58and if you don't figure that out early
12:59yeah and even if you close them if it's
13:03yeah like then you just live kind of
13:05campaign a campaign or
13:06quarter-to-quarter and you can't like
13:08that your turn is gonna be high you're
13:09not gonna build up sell the people so
13:11you kind of like like you were saying
13:12about short term plus long term like
13:13it's it's hard enough just to close them
13:15but you have to be able to like close
13:16that same person maybe with more money
13:18every quarter and if you think you're
13:20gonna be able to close them but they're
13:21not going to come back sometimes it's
13:22not even worth closing them he's like
13:24all that stuff that I had never done
13:26that I learned well Tyler Bosnia Bosman
13:29II from from clever is coming to talk
13:32about sales next week so that's the yeah
13:34perfect setup that so I think we should
13:38talk a lot about a lot more about what
13:41investors are are looking for but but
13:46I've been thinking you've talked a lot
13:49about that before and and said a lot of
13:52amazing things but I was thinking a
13:54little bit about from startup founders
13:58perspective how how they should look at
14:01investors and what they should look at I
14:03was thinking about you and one of the
14:04things I thought was somewhat different
14:06about you was the level of empathy you
14:10bring to the the founders who come to
14:15you and that investors you know but I
14:17think it's different I think that it
14:18that there's a there's a level of help
14:21you give which is not just you know
14:25here's how you should think about sales
14:26but here's how you should you think
14:28about believing in your business do you
14:30think about things that way is that is
14:31that part of your calculus I mean you
14:33you do so much more than just as an
14:35investor and you you're interested in in
14:37in a broad set of ways that the
14:41ecosystems put together and I think that
14:43all is part of the same picture I don't
14:47I don't know if I I don't know if it's I
14:50think it comes naturally hopefully and I
14:52mean my partner Ted who you know his was
14:55thinking about writing this blog post
14:56about making venture capital human and
14:58it's like when we were writing and it's
15:00just the fact that you have to think
15:01it's so dumb to write that that we
15:03decided not to write it but because he's
15:06relatively new to our firm he's been a
15:07cowboy for a year and a half but he's
15:09been working with startups for 20 years
15:10and he said that that's one of things
15:12that he noticed joining Cowboys like
15:13that we are more maybe empathetic or
15:15more human that a lot of VCs that he
15:17knows but it just has so dumb to be like
15:18hey come to us we're human that we
15:23didn't we didn't do it if you're sure
15:24the others are but they're a is
15:29masquerading his people yeah interesting
15:31I mean I think I'm a person who a lot of
15:34people may look at my resume or what I'm
15:36doing now and think like wow she really
15:38has it together like I have not had it
15:40together for much of my life I have
15:43screwed up projects I have failed at
15:45things I have been the person on the
15:47business school project who's a
15:48procrastinator and like doesn't show up
15:49with her homework done when everyone
15:50else is ready I'm the person I have been
15:52the person who's like slid into class
15:53like slightly hungover being like hey
15:56Jeff did you have notes I did not read
15:58this case and this is all public by the
16:01way I understood I believe people can
16:07change I believe people evolve I believe
16:10people learn and you like you have to
16:13give people second chances and you have
16:16to like believe that they're going to
16:18get better over time like I just think
16:20in general to be a venture investor you
16:22have to be an optimist but like also
16:24because like you know I was a Series A
16:26Series B investor when I was at Kleiner
16:27and I moved to seed and so kind of by
16:30definition deciding to go earlier means
16:32you want to live with people and
16:33situations that are more raw and that
16:37less is baked less is figured out and
16:39that you're not trying to poke holes and
16:40what could go wrong but you're trying to
16:42work with the people and figure out what
16:43what do we need to go right and that's
16:48like just what we what we do right in
16:51working with you know folks prior to
16:53product market fit or you know half the
16:56time at cowboy we the people haven't
16:58built a product yet and half the time
17:00they have so kind of by definition it's
17:02what we choose to do but it's also just
17:05I feel like I'm a product of people who
17:07believed in me like you know John doar
17:09and the people at Kleiner changed my
17:10life when they hired me I was the first
17:12woman I was the youngest I did not I was
17:14never a working engineer I wasn't
17:16working at a venture back startup I was
17:18a completely non traditional hire and I
17:20wouldn't be sitting here if people
17:21hadn't made a bet on me as a
17:22non-traditional hire it's interesting
17:25when I think about John the first word
17:28that pops in my head and it might you
17:30know I'm Way better than me so it might
17:32be different is thoughtful I was
17:35thinking of like what what are the
17:38characteristics of the great investors I
17:40know and thoughtful and empathetic like
17:42those like and you don't often hear
17:44those you think about people who
17:45like who get your product who are
17:47familiar with labor sales are invested
17:49in similar companies and like your your
17:51domain but but if you think about it
17:53the people who I think if we look at the
17:56industry who are the best at it have
17:58those qualities and not just the cold
18:00hard qualities that that make for like
18:03you know investing magic you know I I
18:07don't know if I totally agree like I
18:09think John and I used to do this
18:11presentation called like there are
18:13mercenaries and missionaries and that
18:15one doesn't always win like you can win
18:18if you're a mercenary and you can win as
18:20a missionary you just have to choose
18:21what you want to be and I think that
18:24there are plenty of people in tech who
18:25are pretty mercenary like they're pretty
18:27cold they're very driven they just care
18:31about results and they push and they
18:32push and they're super aggressive and
18:35you can win doing I mean I think I'm
18:36guessing in your head you're thinking
18:37about brands of companies in your mind
18:40that seem like missionary companies or
18:42mercenary companies right and there are
18:43successful companies that are more
18:45mercenary than missionary so I don't
18:47think it's completely there are people
18:48who we know were not worm and you know
18:53don't ask you you know how you know how
18:57your spouse is doing or your sick mom or
18:59you know or and but and those people can
19:01be successful it's just you have to
19:03choose who you want to be yeah maybe
19:05there's a connection between them which
19:08is you should you know we always tell
19:11this to founders is usually look for
19:14investor who's going to be most helpful
19:15to you and sometimes having your butt
19:20kicked is what you need and sometimes
19:23having someone you know understand and
19:28understand what you're going through and
19:30hope you still believe in your future is
19:32what you need and I guess it depends
19:35really is the answer
19:37yeah and you're gonna both I think like
19:39you can that's what you should look for
19:41yeah I think we you know we all we have
19:43a saying at cowboy we're always happy
19:45never satisfied and so it's a you know
19:49we're very grateful and we were like
19:53positive and optimistic but you can
19:54always do better so fundraising is
19:59premature for some of these folks but
20:02even if it's premature if you're a
20:03startup you're moving fast and it'll
20:06happen it'll it'll become relevant soon
20:09for folks who are just in the middle as
20:13I was saying battling for customers and
20:16to figure out what their as we say at YC
20:19you know talking to customers in writing
20:21code and talking to customers and
20:22running code and trying to trying to
20:24find something that works and solve real
20:27problems how should they start to think
20:30about fundraising how do you how do you
20:32think about that like what's what are
20:34your first steps as you as you approach
20:36that stage so I think something that we
20:39have talked about here at YC and it's
20:42funny because it's a relatively new
20:43thing to talk about I think it's always
20:45been there but now we have an
20:46articulation of it which is storytelling
20:49you know some people are naturally
20:51natural storytellers and some are not
20:53I think regardless of whether you are a
20:55natural storyteller or not it's really
20:57helpful to become one for fundraising
21:00there are you know people want to be
21:03emotionally engaged in your story and
21:06the journey of your company and like and
21:08and the arc and to feel like your
21:11company is on an upward arc and so how
21:14you lay out kind of how you came up with
21:17the idea you know what work you did to
21:21figure out whether there was a they're
21:22there to validate or de-risk some of the
21:24initial potential issues with your
21:27company like I know how you've hustled
21:29like in a way it's like a lag story like
21:31you're engaging someone on the beginning
21:33steps of a rags to riches story and like
21:37showing people what you've figured out
21:38and like what challenges you faced but
21:40like and where you see it going is part
21:44of how because that's a story telling is
21:46selling you need to woo people who can
21:48get paid much more working at Google or
21:50Facebook right it's how you recruit
21:52talent it's how you convince customers
21:53to take a bet on you when you don't have
21:55a lot of other customers right it's how
21:57you convince people to pay like movement
21:59to the paid like to the paid version
22:01from the free version you know it's how
22:04you raise money and so it's a skill that
22:06that you can use in pretty much
22:08everything that you do and it just takes
22:13of people like I used to be super
22:15nervous speaking on stage and for the
22:17first couple years I worked in venture
22:19when I got invited to anything to speak
22:20I said no so Stu scared you just have to
22:25do it a lot and so practicing your pitch
22:27getting feedback from friendlies like we
22:30call them like puff off Broadway's you
22:32know like you probably don't want to
22:33give your pitch for the first time to
22:34that partner that you know what Sequoyah
22:35you want to practice it you know and you
22:39want them to register on your mind yeah
22:40on your coat with your co-founders with
22:43other people who raise money and
22:44practice taking questions from them way
22:47before you have to start fundraising
22:48like you don't want to you know if you
22:50have to start fundraising in December
22:53you don't want to start your pitch in
22:55December right you want to start your
22:56pitch over the summer and practice it
22:59and get lots of feedback and I mean YC
23:01is great at providing that kind of
23:03feedback as well yeah I don't think you
23:05can stress enough that aspect of
23:08practicing your pitch in a in a way that
23:12you take feedback and learn and iterate
23:15it's it's almost like like writing code
23:19and talking to customers like they're
23:20your customers anyone who will listen to
23:22your pitch and writing code is going
23:24back and modifying that pitch because it
23:26probably won't work the first time you
23:27do it they might not but you might even
23:29ask them did you even get it at the end
23:30and they'll say I have no idea what
23:31you're talking about
23:32so that aspect of practicing in and
23:35perfecting the pitch is critical right I
23:38think so how else to think about
23:41fundraising I mean Jeff mentioned it
23:46before that you know when you have a
23:49milestone that's right in front of you
23:50like I want to raise my seed I want to
23:52raise my a you're very focused on that
23:54but like Jeff mentioned the people who
23:56have especially if you're gonna go for
23:57institutionally back dollars whether
23:59it's a seed fund or a larger venture
24:02firm like when we take money from
24:04professional investors we are have to
24:06basically guarantor kind of to be a top
24:09quartile fund we have to deliver a
24:10certain kind of return top quartile
24:12returns for more recent ventures like
24:16vintages or let's say for a 4x return
24:19right so if someone has a hundred
24:20million dollar fund they have to figure
24:22out how to generate four hundred million
24:23dollars to be kids like to be able to
24:25raise money in the future
24:26and so that 400 million dollars is going
24:29to be a combination let's say of 30
24:30different companies two to four of which
24:33are gonna wind up being great and the
24:35rest of which are going to wind up not
24:36being so great and so to kind of balance
24:38out the averages the two to four that
24:40have to be great have to be really great
24:42like they have to worth a billion
24:45dollars or more especially when you move
24:48to a like for a seed fund if we are able
24:50to get the right owner like you know our
24:52first one was forty million dollars so
24:54if we owned 10% at exit of a four
24:56hundred million our company we could
24:57return our fund but those kinds of like
25:00that kind of aperture for an exit really
25:03stops at seed like once you raise a the
25:06people need the exits to be much bigger
25:07because those people all have five
25:08hundred million dollar eight hundred
25:10million dollar funds so they need to own
25:1210% of an eight billion dollar company
25:14to be able to return the fund and so and
25:17the data shows historically that most
25:20funds don't wind up having 50 percent of
25:23the company's all the four hundred
25:25million dollar exits there they have two
25:27to three B multi-billion and a bunch of
25:30zeros or near zeros and so they're
25:33looking at you thinking is this one of
25:35the bullets I'm gonna fire this year to
25:37be one of those companies that's going
25:39to be my outsized winner they're not
25:41thinking can I get this to two hundred
25:43million or 300 building and they're
25:45can this founder turn this into a
25:47multi-billion dollar company and so the
25:49short-term execution and story has to be
25:51right but sorry for institutional folks
25:55that's what's going on in their minds
25:57yeah it seems like a lot of founders
26:01going to the process not understanding
26:04like if all those numbers that that a
26:07lien was just talking about sort of
26:08you're sort of thinking whatever
26:10whatever it's actually vital that you
26:13understand venture capitalists math so
26:15that you understand what the motivations
26:18of the person sitting across the table
26:19from you are why they're asking how big
26:21is your business going to be and why
26:23they care and why although you might be
26:25thrilled to have a 30 or 40 million
26:28dollar exit might sound pretty good
26:30right you own 50% of a 30 million that's
26:33fantastic for a venture capitalist
26:35that's like a failure and it's important
26:37it's more to do their math because
26:39if you want them to give you money you
26:40better understand their math and I think
26:43I mean it's not the answer for everyone
26:44right like a lot of people can be
26:46successful and get to a 40 million
26:47dollar exit with a party round of angels
26:49and that has happened now I think the
26:52downside and I guess I'm a little biased
26:54is a lot of times just having angels and
26:56not having anyone who's a professional
26:58investor like they may not give you the
26:59guidance that you need on how to scale
27:02your company on what's going on in the
27:04market on you know what could be going
27:06wrong or right because they're you know
27:08they're not professionals they are high
27:10net-worth individuals who are gonna
27:13write your check and say keep me posted
27:15and move on so I think you know
27:18sometimes you have to do what you have
27:19to do but that's always you have to do
27:22it yeah exactly yes exactly you know
27:24ideally you have choices right and and a
27:27lot of what I think as you think about
27:29sequencing your fundraising and building
27:32your team is like basically like trying
27:34to continually put yourself in a
27:35position where you have good choices
27:36right and certainly if that's the only
27:40round you ever raise which by the way is
27:43philosophically how you should think
27:44about it but if you do want to continue
27:47to be a fast growth company and raise a
27:48Series A and seriously having
27:49institutional's who can help you find
27:51the partners for the next round it's
27:54pretty important one of the things that
27:57that also occurs to me that people don't
28:00often talk about when it comes to
28:03fundraising is a lot of founders forget
28:05that that that you have to do all these
28:08things yourself like when you started
28:10cowboy you had to raise money you had to
28:13go to the professional investors and
28:14tell your story what like how is that
28:18you know it's humbling fundraising is
28:20humbling so it's humbling because
28:23especially when I started cowboy I was
28:24just me and so basically you know any
28:27meeting that I had it was clearly a
28:29verdict on whether they believed in me
28:30or not now it's good that I went through
28:33that because it and any everybody who
28:36fund raises is gonna get some nose like
28:38eventually someone's gonna say no to you
28:40even if you're like the hottest company
28:41ever or like some people are gonna pass
28:43and but that gives me a little extra
28:45motivation to make them really sorry
28:49like I want them to really regret not
28:52investing in cowboy ventures so it's
28:58good yeah yeah I think that not enough
29:05investors go through that experience I
29:08think part of the problem is is that at
29:10some point if you've been there for a
29:12while it's the you get these funds that
29:13just investing again again you don't
29:15have to suffer the way a startup owner
29:18has to suffer and I say suffer because
29:20it's very unusual when you raise money
29:23not to get nose right like you should
29:25get used to it like and also just like
29:27all the things you said when I was
29:29raising the fun for the first time I got
29:31a lot of smiles and a lot of like this
29:33is great this is great I'm totally gonna
29:34follow up send me a link to the data
29:36room and then I would know they were not
29:38checking the data room and when I would
29:40check in with them they're like this is
29:41great investment partners gonna love
29:43this and then they would come back and
29:44say they would either ghost me or they
29:47would come back and say I'm so sorry I
29:48super thought we were gonna get this
29:49through but we didn't and I just wish
29:51those people had not wasted my time and
29:54so it does give us a lot of empathy and
29:56me a lot of empathy for like following
29:58up you know if you send me your business
29:59plan or we have a conversation I try
30:01really hard to get back to you and tell
30:03you if it's not a fit for us now why and
30:05not just smile and kind of like gfu so
30:10that a lot of people knows are hard
30:13right they're hard to get a lot of VCs I
30:16think are afraid of telling you why
30:18they're really passing because they're
30:19you know if you do well they want to be
30:21able to call you later
30:22and pretend that like they were just
30:24really busy when I passed or you know
30:27and they're your best friend you know
30:29yeah like how I just said about like
30:31making you really saw if I'm not
30:32investing they don't want to be that
30:34person so they don't tell you why
30:35they're really passing but doesn't
30:37really help you so and I also think
30:39again in fundraising getting back to
30:41what we talked about lead qualification
30:43so when I did my first fund raise I was
30:46I had gotten some advice from some other
30:48folks who were really helpful like Steve
30:50Anderson and Mike maples and and people
30:54who had Michael Deering who had raised
30:56funds as a solo general partner before
30:58me and they said the original super
31:00angels right exactly they they said like
31:02no certain types of investors are gonna
31:05smile and it's their job to learn about
31:07what you're doing and so they'll meet
31:09with you over and over again they're not
31:10going to they're not going to come into
31:12your first fund they're too conservative
31:13so be careful and so I decided to create
31:16a process or I tried to create a process
31:17where iPhone screen everybody before I
31:19met with them and if they hadn't
31:21reinvested in a seed fund before and if
31:24they didn't know who first round was or
31:26Harrison metal and didn't have a feeling
31:27like I had missed that or I have now
31:29kind of I've got a budget to make sure I
31:31don't miss the next wave of seed funds
31:32then I just I said it'd be great to keep
31:34in touch but let's not meet let's not
31:36meet and so that it kind of made the
31:38sales process a little bit more
31:39efficient trying to really qualify leads
31:42before spending time with them so I've
31:44never asked you this but did you find
31:46that that being a female and trying to
31:52raise from LPS for a venture fund
31:57colored the process in some way did you
32:00feel look did you feel yes that you were
32:04treated differently yes and sometimes it
32:07worked out and sometimes it didn't so
32:09I'm sure it's just we know there are
32:11lots of studies to show that women and
32:14men have more confidence in men right
32:16like a woman can say the exact same
32:18thing as a man and it will not come
32:21across and give the same impression as
32:23Amanda's right and so I could give a
32:26great pitch and people would some people
32:28probably came way as thinking like I
32:30just don't know if she's enough of a
32:31killer um I don't know like she has kids
32:35what if she wakes up one day and decide
32:37she wants to spend time with them like
32:40you know who knows what they say but
32:43probably all those things and you know
32:45it would be really great if people said
32:47that about men - I don't think we're
32:49gonna hold our breath but you know I
32:52think it just you know we are we're all
32:54unfortunately biased and I mean is this
32:57an asymmetry that's built into the
32:59genders because we are different or is
33:01it something that we can I'm hoping we
33:04can work on it like there's a study I
33:06think it's like a pen MIT study where
33:09there was a PowerPoint deck and a
33:12voiceover talk track
33:15and they showed it to I think hundreds
33:17or thousands of business school students
33:18and they gave the Business School
33:19students like you know you have a
33:20hundred dollars or a thousand dollars to
33:21invest in this company how much do you
33:23give it and they had in the different
33:26classes they a be tested they showed the
33:28slides on the screen and they had a
33:29woman speaking of it like doing the
33:33voice-over or a man the man raised 2x
33:36the woman same script so we have to I
33:41mean we have to believe that this is
33:43changeable we have to address it at
33:45every stage of a person's life whether
33:47you're an elementary school or junior
33:48high or adulthood to try and catch
33:51ourselves on our biases and yeah thing
33:55that gives me that's it back the thing
33:56that gave me pause there as you said
33:58it's - for women yeah and women and
34:01men's the female and male students both
34:04gave the man more money so we got to
34:09work on it but yeah so I'm sure there
34:10were people who just you know and and
34:12meanwhile at the same time they're a
34:13bunch of really bro II guys with not as
34:15good track records and probably more
34:18like polarizing reference checks who
34:21raised money really fast because people
34:24were like he's such a good guy I love
34:26that guy he goes out all the time like
34:28everyone's gonna want to hang out with
34:29him and give him deal flow because he's
34:31such a great guy and like some of those
34:34guys don't work in our business anymore
34:35cuz it turns out that they're not really
34:37ethical guys and they don't treat people
34:39professionally but they raised a lot of
34:40money but I think the great thing about
34:43our environment right now is we talk
34:45about it you know to five or ten years
34:47ago we did not we just pretended this
34:49stuff was not happening and you were
34:51kind of unique when you started there
34:53were so few women in the industry when
34:55you started it and I was kind of taught
34:57like as much as I love my former
34:59colleagues like it was very clear I
35:01should never talk about being a woman
35:02and I mean like that was just at the
35:05time was like you know keep your head
35:07down don't don't cause problems cuz then
35:10no one will want to hang out with you
35:14and we shouldn't do that to people and
35:15yeah I know you've been active in
35:18thinking about about inclusion not just
35:21not not just loss genderless but
35:24diversity as well you start all raised
35:25or maybe you can give a quick
35:27for that as long as we're here sure so
35:29all raised is a non-profit to try and
35:30accelerate success for women in the tech
35:33ecosystem so founders employees venture
35:36investors but we hope it will create a
35:37rising tide for all kinds of people who
35:39are different not just women and we're
35:41just starting out to focus on women so
35:42all raised org is the website we started
35:45lots of things we're like a little
35:47startup we're a nonprofit startup that's
35:49all volunteer driven right now if you
35:51have heard of something called founders
35:53for change and the new one heard of
35:54founders for change raise your hand if
35:55you've heard a founder changer so if you
35:57are a founder you can go to founders for
35:58change org and you can sign up to be a
36:00founder for change which basically says
36:02you're going to publicly make a
36:03commitment to inclusion and diversity on
36:06your team on you know when you have
36:08choices on your team on your board and
36:10on your cap table and you know it's not
36:13binding you don't design assign anything
36:15but you're just standing up and saying I
36:17care about this and standing up and
36:18saying I care about this is gonna say
36:20sling to the people who are potentially
36:21going to recruit and to the culture that
36:24you're going to build which I think will
36:25make your company stronger we do office
36:28hours for female founders and we have a
36:32matching service to try and help women
36:34and people of color who want to get into
36:36the venture business to kind of help get
36:38them trained and then also match them
36:39with firms who are looking to add more
36:41diversity to their teams so we have like
36:43a lot of cool products yeah the cool
36:45thing about entrepreneurship is you
36:47create seeds and so like entire
36:49communities can change because someone
36:51someone starts a company and shows that
36:53it's possible we're talking about belief
36:54yeah that how important belief is and
36:56you you can inject we hope and believe
36:58belief into a community anywhere right
37:02anywhere in the well it's a cool thing
37:03about startup school is a thousands of
37:04companies from around the world that can
37:06they can change the world that is
37:08amazing so before we go to Q&A
37:12You've I'll put you on the spot a little
37:14bit hopefully you can remember how you
37:16did this but youto like you give a
37:19really great description of what the
37:23components of a pitch should be and I
37:24want to yeah I'm on it
37:26like the and you're really good at that
37:28and and that's a really concrete thing
37:30that we talked about telling stories but
37:33it's not just any story it's a story
37:35that has components that matter because
37:37because as we talked about venture math
37:40there's there's there's a math component
37:42there's a results component so maybe
37:44maybe you can help these folks if I talk
37:47if I don't do a good job of this
37:48hopefully if there is a talk there's a
37:50logic yeah so I do think that there are
37:53like us on some fundament like
37:55fundamental elements that should be in
37:57generally all pitches so I I do like it
37:59when people start out with the team
38:01slide and they talk about who they are
38:02and why they started the company and
38:04ideally why you have a certain
38:07background or certain things that you've
38:08done that make you the right founders or
38:10the right people to be solving this
38:12problem then you talk about the problem
38:14you know why is it a problem and then
38:16you talk about how big it is and
38:18investors are usually looking for
38:19problems that are billions of dollars so
38:21if the a and then you know and not just
38:23the overall market the addressable
38:25market so you know if you know if a
38:28market in real estate is you know five
38:31billion dollars but you can only get
38:32Timbers on the market your addressable
38:34market is only two to five hundred
38:35million and that's often too small for
38:37venture investors so they really want
38:38your addressable market to be at least
38:40let's say five or ten billion because
38:42they want to know that if you are really
38:43successful and you get tempers on the
38:45market that you could be making at least
38:47hundreds of millions of dollars so then
38:50you talk about your product or your
38:51solution right which is like this is you
38:53know this is what we've built to solve
38:54the problem here's how it works
38:56and ideally you talk a little bit about
38:58what's special about it what's your
39:00unique insight what's the technology you
39:02develop that's again that makes it so
39:03different and oftentimes it has to be
39:06like a 10x difference like a 1 to 2x
39:08difference is not enough it's hard to
39:11get people to try new things and so
39:12there has to be a real significant
39:14benefit to get someone to switch from
39:15what they're doing to try something new
39:17and you might talk about the competitive
39:20landscape and there people are looking
39:22for your your honesty and your
39:25transparency you know some founders tend
39:28to hand-wave competition like oh they
39:30all suck and they're all stupid like
39:32that's you know that doesn't show that
39:35you're gonna be nested like honest about
39:38what's going on and that there are other
39:40people who are already out there doing
39:41what you're doing or have like that
39:43other people currently use or that other
39:45people have certain features that you
39:46don't have yet because investors and
39:49board members don't want to have to
39:50haircut what you're saying when you're
39:52talking about how the business is going
39:53they want to know that you guys that you
39:54can be honest and transparent with each
39:56other about the reality of what's
39:58happening then you might have a
40:00financial plan and talk about and
40:01oftentimes like a three-year plan is a
40:03good thing it doesn't have to be by
40:04month but kind of like maybe what you're
40:06going to get done by month in the next
40:0712 months and then what the annual
40:09revenue in revenues or what the PNL
40:10looks like and what investors are
40:12looking for is both the top-line in
40:14terms of the revenue numbers and the
40:15revenue growth the margins of the
40:17business and that costs that go into the
40:19business and both the gross margin and
40:21also like how much you're planning on
40:22spending on marketing how much of the
40:24money is going to go to technology
40:25development and people versus buying ads
40:28and things like that and then how much
40:29cash you're planning on consuming over
40:30the next three years that's pretty much
40:33it that helped yeah that's awesome I was
40:37going to say in the financial plan some
40:39of that depends on how far along you are
40:41how involved you are you might have a
40:43CAC and you might not but you ought to
40:46have some idea how you're gonna make
40:47money like you ought to be able to
40:49describe why it's a business as opposed
40:52to some service that people might want
40:56but might not pay for when they end up
40:58deny things good to have like a summary
40:59slide like you know if you've ever taken
41:01public speaking or a presentation class
41:03they'll tell you like I'm gonna tell you
41:05what I'm gonna tell you and then I'm
41:07gonna tell you and then I'm gonna tell
41:10so Kunsan has this slide deck can be
41:13that too or you start out with a summary
41:14slide like you know here's here the
41:15highlights of what we do and then you go
41:17into the whole thing and then you say
41:19and again here are the highlights so um
41:22before we take Q&A there's I'm sure
41:25you're so sick of talking about unicorns
41:28and that like to have some sides having
41:33them so so so Aileen is famous because
41:35or infamous I don't know for inventing
41:38the term hated unicorn and I just had
41:42like I had a question why unicorn we're
41:45not like dragon or like why is it an
41:49animal why isn't it like a diamond Dora
41:51where did that come from
41:52Mike maples from flood floodgate of any
41:55of you he's such a good he's like King
41:58storyteller and he used to call big like
42:01you know big winner company is thunder
42:02dragons which is super perfect so dragon
42:06a thunder dragon was taken I wrote I
42:09wrote the analysis so basically I had
42:11this new fund and I was you know that
42:14the lore had been it's you know out of
42:1630 companies who wanted having two
42:17winners and a bunch of not-so-great
42:20companies and so I had asked LPS for the
42:22data so I was just trying to figure out
42:24like is that really true
42:26and if I could basically a great the
42:28data of other people's funds to
42:29understand what like get what had what
42:32was the composition of their winders you
42:34know where did the founders come from
42:37how did they know each other
42:38what birth order were they like all
42:40these questions of you know if you have
42:42a clean you know of a clean dance card
42:44and there's a kajillion seed stage
42:47companies out there are there any things
42:49that the most successful companies in
42:50the past decade have had in common that
42:52I should know to be looking for and I
42:54could not I had such a hard time
42:55collecting the data so I wind up to
42:57starting a spreadsheet and making a list
42:59of companies that had been born within
43:01the past ten years that were worth over
43:02a billion dollars and I just started
43:04like making a list of where they went to
43:06college how many co-founders there were
43:08when they were born how like you know so
43:12therefore how old were they when they
43:13founded the company had they worked in
43:14tech before like it just had a thousand
43:17columns and how much you know - they
43:20sent that I could learn how much they
43:22raised at the a at the B what was the
43:24time period between the rounds like all
43:26the things to see what they had in
43:27common and so I kind of rode up my and I
43:30there were a bunch of things that I
43:32think were a little bit contrarian at
43:34the time like mo the most successful
43:37founders of the prior decade were in
43:38their 30s when they started and you know
43:42the the conventional wisdom was like you
43:43have to drop out of college and start
43:44when you're 20 and I had been meeting
43:46with founders who were kind of
43:47apologetic when we met they're like I'm
43:49so sorry I'm 32 I know I'm really old
43:52and I was like no don't don't apologize
43:56like you have work experience that's
43:59actually important which is interesting
44:01because if you look at the earlier stage
44:04like the first stages adventure everyone
44:07will everyone starting enterprise
44:08companies and they were all like to
44:10start an enterprise companies you need
44:11to know something about enterprises they
44:13were all in their 30s 40s and 50s
44:15yeah and that was one of the differences
44:17that consumer founders tended to be
44:19younger than Enterprise founders when
44:20they founded the companies because yeah
44:21exactly what you said so so there are a
44:23bunch of things in the analysis like
44:25like the vast majority of companies had
44:27co-founders and there's a reason why I
44:29like being a solo founder is hard really
44:31um being a co founders really had
44:33exactly and also they were people who
44:35had had contacts like they had lived
44:37together or work together a gun to
44:38college so it was like very rare that
44:40you that you meet a co-founder on a
44:42blind date and that that I mean this
44:45holes dataset of 39 companies early
44:47they're all outliers so it's not like
44:48it's there's no statistical significance
44:50so these are all just examples or
44:52stories of kind of the making of but I
44:55thought that there was some useful
44:56things so I wrote this analysis up of
44:58like what are the things I've learned
44:59from this analysis and then I was yeah I
45:02had this phrase of like you know public
45:05or private companies less than ten years
45:07old that have become worth over a
45:08billion dollars that I had written over
45:11in the piece and it was just so hard
45:12hard to read so I was like I got to come
45:13up with a shorter word is it home run is
45:16it mega hit is like what and they it
45:19just all sad so lame let's go catch oh
45:21yeah that's it and then I I put in
45:24unicorn and it made it so much easier
45:26just popped into your hook yeah well I
45:28was thinking like you know the thing is
45:29that it is almost like alchemy like you
45:32could do all the right things and have
45:33the right background and try super hard
45:35for ten years and this could and it
45:37might not happen for you because it just
45:39it really is quite rare out of thousands
45:41of thousands of companies being born
45:43every year in getting funding only
45:45thirty nine at the time and still even
45:49now if the number is 100 or 120 whatever
45:51then or is it still like out of all the
45:52companies that are born every year a
45:54very very small fraction so the idea was
45:56kind of like it is like magic and also I
46:00wanted it to feel special and magical
46:04not kind of laboratory clinical somehow
46:09it just and it immediately caught on one
46:13of those means dead took off yeah so
46:24questions for operations product of
46:35marketing so what's the distribution of
46:38funds proper distribution of funds
46:41during a from a seed round what kind of
46:44a company a I powered it's mostly
46:53probably going to be team and technology
46:56right you're probably not going to have
46:58you're probably not gonna want to spend
47:00a lot of money on customer acquisition
47:01right you're going to want to build
47:03something where the tech is so unique
47:04and so attractive that you don't have to
47:07spend money to acquire customer so I
47:08would think that it's largely gonna be
47:10team probably yeah yeah yeah like the
47:16cost and distribution of funds is hard
47:17because soft from feelings answer it
47:20depends so much on what kind of company
47:23most most software companies spend
47:26almost all their funds on people
47:29hardware companies a little bit
47:31different yeah back there so how do you
47:48look at non-traditional founders and how
47:51do they go about showing you that they
47:52they too can be founders of unicorns I
47:55guess III add at that last part but I
47:57think that's what he meant yeah I mean I
47:59think like what we were talking before
48:00about the story and how you explain like
48:03you know how you came across the problem
48:05that you're trying to solve what your
48:06personal passion is for it and what
48:07you've figured out like a lot at seed
48:10there's not a lot of data right a lot
48:12you haven't maybe shipped your product
48:14you don't have customers there's no
48:15cohorts but what you can talk about is
48:18your hustle right your insight when
48:21you've hit roadblocks what you figure it
48:23what was your workaround and what you
48:24figured out that's really what a lot of
48:26seed stage investors are looking at is
48:28you know do you have that grit and like
48:33the right skill set to figure out and so
48:35seed in the space I mean I think it's a
48:37better time than ever to be a
48:39non-traditional founder I friend Ally
48:41Rosenthal who's raising a fund right now
48:43and her focus is going to be non-obvious
48:45founders you know it's it's like this
48:47was not a thing a decade ago but now I
48:49think both we realized that you know
48:53investors have probably just been
48:55hunting in too much of the same pool
48:57over and over again companies don't need
48:59to be based in the barrier anymore
49:00Richard Kirby did a great analysis
49:03showing that like the diversity aventure
49:05is a huge problem not just in terms of
49:08gender and race but the majority of
49:10people who work in venture went to
49:11Stanford and Harvard there's just no way
49:13that that's the right answer right you
49:16know it just missed opportunity yes tons
49:19and so I think it's a great time to be a
49:20non-traditional founder so how did if
49:39you meet lots of VCS how do you choose
49:42them less based on just gut intuition
49:45and more on some sort of rational basis
49:48so I would recommend on both we do
49:51reference checks on both sides like when
49:54we're thinking about investing in a
49:55company we try and do reference checks
49:56not so much like criminal background
49:58checks but more understanding you where
50:00you work before what your strengths are
50:02how you need to be complimented what
50:04you've experienced and the same thing
50:06founders should feel comfortable if you
50:08you know when you have choices it's it's
50:10hard it's very hard to get divorced from
50:12your investors and so you should
50:15reference check investors agree just
50:17investment in company in they did a lot
50:21of so the question is has to do with
50:45raising on a convertible with a cab
50:48if you raise 250 thousand and can you
50:53vary that cap across different investors
50:55I mean I think the cap question has a
50:58lot to do with the market right and what
51:00choices you have so you know I wouldn't
51:02take the first offer that you have and
51:03it'll assess it with a dilution right
51:06I'm thinking about what dilution you're
51:07willing to live with knowing that this
51:08is probably going to but not going to be
51:10the only dilution you're gonna see right
51:11and so you know you a good rule of thumb
51:16is generally you have to imagine that in
51:18every round like your seed round or a
51:21round and then it's decreasing at B and
51:23C you're probably gonna sell between
51:25twenty and thirty percent of your
51:26company over time so you think about
51:28like how much money realistically you
51:30may have to raise over how many rounds
51:31looking at companies in your space how
51:33many rounds like most people think that
51:35they should only have to raise through B
51:36and then they wind up raising through F
51:38I think it just happens that waiver is a
51:41reason and so you think about you know
51:44you want it you want to get the capital
51:46and not have to spend too much time
51:47fundraising but also you don't want to
51:48experience too much dilution my personal
51:56opinion is the different caps is a
51:58really bad idea if there's a gap if
52:02there's a time gap between when you
52:04raise that's all right but otherwise all
52:07you're likely to do is to have a bunch
52:08of pissed-off investors which as Ian
52:11says you're gonna live with for a long
52:12time and that's never a healthy
52:14relationship you are really getting
52:16married to your to your investors that
52:19you you're creating a long-term
52:21so I'll it seldom starts on a positive
52:25foot to find out that the person you
52:27talk to 15 minutes before got a better
52:29deal than you did yeah
52:32you thanks a lot for that today I mean
52:35you mentioned that used to call the VCS
52:38and the firm's when you were early on
52:39but today I think it's all about getting
52:41the reference right reference times you
52:44know we see so sorry in donors who came
52:46out of not work there not from us oh
52:48they're from outside this area they
52:50don't have height preference so what is
52:51your recommendation for temp to reach
52:53out to the PCs how do you reach out to
52:56VCS what's the recommendation you know
52:59or get a warm intro if you're not from
53:01from the from the area and you don't or
53:04you're not from Stanford or Harvard
53:05right I think it's both you know I think
53:12a lot of especially seed firms take cold
53:16we take cold end pounds all the time and
53:19a lot of it depends on what you say in
53:22the email about what the market is that
53:24you're going after what you figured out
53:26so far we meet with people all the time
53:28that just emailed us a traditional VC
53:31was you yet you just received a whole
53:33bunch of business but no one knew the
53:34VCS they were sitting off on Sand Hill
53:35Road no one knew them exactly and they
53:37got business plans so yeah it still
53:39exists so but I do think it's helpful
53:40because I think it's a you know figuring
53:43out how to get a warm intro in some ways
53:45I think is a test of your hustle and
53:47your ability to network and build
53:49relationships when you especially are
53:51from the outside so I think that's one
53:52of the reasons why people use it as a
53:53filter it's like you know if you're not
53:55good at figuring out how to like start
53:57from you know a cold like a stop and
54:01then like to get some momentum then you
54:02know maybe you're not gonna be a great
54:05entrepreneur so I would try both yeah I
54:07think one one thing to think about is
54:10that like it's a pretty small world here
54:14everyone knows everyone Saul I got to do
54:16it like to find someone who's connected
54:17to alien like like elbow three people
54:20and you'll find somebody so it's it's
54:22not as hard as you might think maybe
54:41and happy thoughts about that and why
54:45that is so the question is on a study
54:48that found that women the companies
54:51founded by women are evaluated 84% less
54:53than I guess male founders I'm not sure
54:58if they normalized over industries yeah
55:01I haven't read that study I I mean I
55:06think a lot of the studies the if you
55:10look at the Unicorn list right now right
55:12there's only like two female founders in
55:14the whole list right so if you're doing
55:15an average across venture yes of course
55:17like those companies are the vast
55:19majority of the kind of paper wealth
55:21that's been driven in the past decade in
55:23the industry and if there's no female
55:24co-founders or you know that that own
55:26the equity of or and these are the most
55:28valuable companies in our industry then
55:31yeah it's that would make sense and I
55:34think even if you just if you looked at
55:36it like kind of apples to apples across
55:38seed my guess is the analysis will find
55:41that and parsley for some of the reasons
55:44that we talked about that women founded
55:47companies tend to be underestimated by
55:49investors partially due to bias but
55:53women also can I think we can you know
55:55we can work on it on the Investor side
55:57to try and take away some of the bias
55:58and then we can also work out on the
56:00founder side kind of helping and
56:02coaching women on how to tell stories
56:04and how to pitch like I'm fortunate to
56:07have worked with some women who have
56:09raised a lot of money at very healthy
56:10valuations and in very competitive
56:14situations where they've been multiple
56:16bidders and the price like you know the
56:18multiples relative to revenue or run
56:20rate or like you know what they figure
56:22it out have been you know quite high a
56:25lot of times it comes to the story like
56:27what both what the founders have figured
56:29out and how they tell the story so I'm
56:32sorry we were going to take one more
56:34question because time is flown in the
56:55so the question is when you're analyzing
56:58the factors that went in the various
57:01characteristics of unicorns were there
57:03any factors that surprised you was that
57:07surprised that we're surprising that
57:08actually mattered oh that did Matt well
57:11which factors did not matter that was it
57:14that were surprised oh that's a good
57:15question I don't know if I have a good
57:16quick answer for you on that one just
57:18because I focus so much I'm like where
57:19they were signal I don't even know if I
57:21remember the things that it didn't have
57:22signal okay we'll take one more question
57:24then right there you only get one you
57:36have to pick one pick the best one so
57:54they're looking for especially with the
57:57curry optional distribution and I'm
58:02coming at it from I have no idea how to
58:22concisely say that a question it's
58:25something about aligning objectives
58:27where where where is I don't know I
58:39don't know if I get it
58:41yeah can you can you try to make your
58:43put your question in like a very concise
58:46short one sentence understandable format
58:51so the test investor who's seeking a
58:54higher return how do you align your
58:56objectives with enabling a lot of
58:59companies that are looking for the
59:01lowest cost to market in terms of so how
59:04do you balance the high return that
59:07investors are looking for with companies
59:10that need to very to compete in a very
59:14price-sensitive market is that right I
59:18think they're aligned I mean we have you
59:21know your investors have the same goals
59:24right which is we want to help you get
59:26to market so we can quickly get feedback
59:28on whether there's a dare there on the
59:29product right and so helping you figure
59:31out like what are the things that you
59:33look what's your Minimum Viable Product
59:35one of the things that are nice to have
59:36versus need to have like for example
59:39oftentimes when we hear a steed pitch
59:41someone will be like well I need all
59:42this money cuz I have to build both
59:43Android and iPhone and we'll say like
59:45well we don't have any market validation
59:47yet why would we build both let's just
59:49spend money on one of them see if people
59:51like it and then we'll build the other
59:52one right so like those are examples I
59:54think what they're very aligned in that
59:56we work together to figure out how do we
59:58get our product out there and get
01:00:00feedback and kind of conserve our cash
01:00:03that we don't blow it all before we have
01:00:05actually learned anything it all comes
01:00:07to the same thing okay sorry to cut it
01:00:09off guys thanks very much thank you so
01:00:11much thanks for coming
