00:13we've affirmed provision an old age
00:15access to 12 years of education basic
00:18nutrition to be rights in this country
00:20the reason is very simple
00:23those things are fundamental to human
00:25flourishing and vitality
00:28show me an argument that says that
00:30housing isn't fundamental they're human
00:32flourishing and vitality of course it is
00:34housing should be a right in this
00:35country and the reason is simple
00:38without stable shelter everything else
01:49and thank you for attending this
01:51hosted by the better tomorrow speaker
01:54the oli that i just performed was
01:56composed by the kumuhula edith kanakaole
02:00today this oli is used to focus the
02:03energies of these events and ensure that
02:05we carry out the kuleana
02:09that we've undertaken
02:10and now i'd like to introduce the dean
02:13of the college of social sciences denise
02:29mahalo makini thank you so much for that
02:34makini is one of our
02:37upcoming graduates of the department of
02:40psychology and we're so
02:44that and i'm honored that all of you are
02:46joining us this evening
02:49i look around and it's so amazing to see
02:52that we're coming back in person for
02:58second time we've been back in person
03:02the better tomorrow series and
03:05and today we see looking around the
03:09number of people that came out today are
03:11in the several hundred and i know online
03:14there are many many more of you that are
03:16watching this evening and it is because
03:18of the significance of today's subject
03:23where we are tackling some of the most
03:26difficult issues that hawaii faces
03:28bringing in thought leadership around
03:30these topics of affordable housing and
03:36you know i think that you realize
03:39because each of us and many of us are
03:44to find ways to afford housing here in
03:48our islands and it can be a a very
03:53difficult struggle indeed for for many
03:56of us of us and you know we some of us
04:03challenge and we need new solutions we
04:05need to discover ways to
04:10protections for those that are renting
04:15new ways to afford the cost of being
04:19here and to preserve the structure of
04:22our families here in hawaii so it's very
04:25important to have these outside
04:26perspectives that we can bring to the
04:28conversation around this
04:30and i think that's why as i look around
04:32that we see so many people that have
04:34come out today to consider this topic
04:38and to get insights on this topic thank
04:40you so much for taking your time today
04:44to come out for a topic like this mahalo
04:50okay and i want to also thank the
04:53organizers of the better tomorrow series
04:56robert perkinson and all of the people
04:59that are supporting his efforts his
05:01students many of you have met them
05:04those that are making this event
05:07this is really a joint venture
05:12university of hawaii
05:14and the hawaii community foundation
05:17and the kamehameha schools and other
05:21donors who are really focused on trying
05:24to elevate the level of conversations
05:26that we're having about consequential
05:30this series is also supported by my
05:33college if i didn't introduce myself
05:36denise conan the dean of the college of
05:39social sciences and i'm so happy to see
05:41many of you here from my college today
05:51richardson school of law
05:54sociology department the matsunaga
05:57institute of peace the department of
05:59urban and regional planning the scholars
06:02strategy network there are many people
06:05that are supporting the this subject
06:08area coming to the forefront today and
06:10so uh for all of those of you that have
06:13contributed to today's events i really
06:15do thank you very very much
06:18um i want to also point out that this
06:23evening is also an engagement and your
06:26input is very important so we are
06:29listening to your questions and part of
06:33function will include
06:36questions from you so if you came in
06:38there were no cards distributed to you
06:40if you want no cards please raise your
06:45we do want to hear your questions and
06:47that will become a part of today's
06:51topic the introducing
06:53your question so please do
06:58it's now really my pleasure to introduce
07:02a good friend of mine
07:05senator stanley chang who has been a
07:08champion and leader in this area of
07:10affordable housing on behalf of our
07:14looking for new solutions looking for
07:15models not just locally but globally to
07:19address issues of affordable housing
07:22and so i'd like to welcome him forward
07:25to also introduce our speaker today
07:29senator stanley stanley chang from
07:32district 9 it's my pleasure to welcome
07:35you here today mahalo thank you very
07:58good evening and aloha
08:02thank you so much for that warm
08:07it's great to be here tonight in person
08:09i haven't been to one of these things in
08:13and it's also great to see some of my
08:15colleagues in the state legislature two
08:18real champions of housing i see house
08:20housing chair nadine nakamura and vice
08:22chair troy hashimoto um
08:30and i think senator san buena ventura
08:32joyce and buena ventura is in the back
08:34the human services chair
08:38and of course we have lieutenant
08:39governor josh green who is in the front
08:47so i have the honor tonight of
08:49introducing one of the most influential
08:51voices on housing issues in the whole
08:53country professor professor matthew
08:57he's the maurice p during professor of
08:59sociology at princeton university
09:02after receiving his phd in 2010 from the
09:05university of wisconsin he joined the
09:07harvard society of fellows as a junior
09:11in my old dorm of elliot house where he
09:14was eating gourmet meals and drinking
09:16fine sherry while we were eating
09:17cafeteria food next door
09:21he went on to receive the macarthur
09:22genius fellowship among other honors
09:25and he launched the eviction lab to
09:27collect national data on eviction and
09:29help answer fundamental questions about
09:31residential instability force moves and
09:34poverty in america in 2018 the eviction
09:37lab published the first ever national
09:40data set of evictions in america
09:42collecting millions of data points going
09:46he's the author of four books including
09:48the new york times bestseller and 2017
09:51pulitzer prize winner evicted poverty
09:54and profit in the american city that's
09:58but i'll tell you the strongest
10:00endorsement that i've heard is from
10:02professor colin moore who i think is
10:03also in the audience he said this is one
10:06of the few books that he assigns to his
10:08students that they actually read
10:12so i'm looking forward to reading this
10:16his work is particularly relevant here
10:18in hawaii where we have one of the
10:20nation's lowest rates of home ownership
10:22and highest rates of rentership
10:25due to the pandemic we've just been
10:27through the worst economic crisis in
10:30in which we had the highest unemployment
10:34yet house prices have gone up
10:38now topping 1.1 million dollars in three
10:47was able to buy a house with one state
10:50salary as a uh professor
10:53for me to buy that same house today
10:55would take over 40 years of my entire
10:58salary as a state employee
11:01the rent is just too damn high
11:04that is why hawaii has now entered five
11:07straight years of population decline
11:10and frankly that should come as no
11:12surprise because we literally built 10
11:15times as much housing 50 years ago as we
11:20but beyond the statistics and the facts
11:22and figures professor desmond's most
11:24impactful work is unveiling the human
11:26cost of each eviction
11:29how deeply families and children are
11:31scarred due to this routine business
11:37professor desmond we are eager to hear
11:40i hope your lecture tonight
11:42before this audience of important
11:44stakeholders and decision makers
11:47is the start of a new era here in hawaii
11:49in which we finally sit up and take
11:50major action to end our housing shortage
11:53and to prevent the tragic evictions that
11:56are the inevitable consequence
11:58now everyone please join me in giving
12:00professor matthew desmond our warmest
12:26uh thank you stan for that amazing
12:30thank you for your vision and your work
12:33on housing uh no thanks for reminding me
12:35about the depression existentially
12:37confusing time i spent in the harvard
12:42and thank you so much for this warm
12:44welcome it's really an honor to be here
12:46it's great to be with you it's great to
12:50i've been in hawaii with my family for
12:52the past 10 days it's been
12:54really wonderful for us to experience
12:56your hospitality and food and land and
12:58culture so thank you so much for this
13:02america is the richest country with the
13:04worst poverty in the world
13:08there's no other advanced industrial
13:09society that has the kind of poverty
13:11that we have the levels of poverty that
13:13we have and that's always really bugged
13:16and i know it bugs a lot of you and so i
13:19thought that understanding housing was a
13:22decent way of understanding
13:24what america is like understanding the
13:25inequality problem and i wanted to
13:27understand it through eviction
13:30physical removal of people from their
13:34so i went about this work the
13:35old-fashioned way i moved into a mobile
13:37home park on the south side of milwaukee
13:41milwaukee wisconsin is a city in america
13:44it's in the middle of the country it's
13:46our fourth 14th 40th biggest city and i
13:48moved into a mobile home park in
13:50milwaukee and i lived there for about
13:51five months and then i moved into a
13:53rooming house on the north side of
13:54milwaukee which is milwaukee's inner
13:55city and i lived there for about 10
13:57months and from those two areas i
13:59followed families getting evicted i went
14:01everywhere with those families i went to
14:03eviction court with them
14:04i helped them move i followed them into
14:07shelters into abandoned homes i ate from
14:09their table i slept on their floor i
14:11watched their kids went to a bunch of
14:12funerals with them was there for a birth
14:16like there for a birth
14:19dean you ever been to birth
14:25but i knew that if i was going to
14:26understand like how the housing market
14:28worked i need to get landlords
14:29perspectives too so if you were getting
14:31evicted i wanted to get just as close to
14:33your landlord doing the evicting as i
14:36so i did so i passed out eviction
14:38notices with landlords and i helped fix
14:40up their properties and i learned a bit
14:43more about what makes them tick and what
14:44takes them off i know why you would be a
14:46landlord of a mobile home park in a very
14:48poor city in america and i try to write
14:50a book about this incredibly complicated
14:52fraught relationship but one that's
14:54essential if we want to understand our
14:56cities today which is the relationship
14:57between landlords and tenants
15:01so i was going about this work and there
15:02are all these questions that kept
15:03springing to mind there's just like
15:06how often does eviction happen who gets
15:09evicted what are the long-term
15:10consequences of getting tossed out of
15:13and i went looking for some data that
15:15allowed me to answer these questions
15:16just came up empty which is crazy
15:19and so i decided to do a few things to
15:21collect you know statistical data on the
15:23problem so one thing that we did is we
15:25designed a survey and we talked over a
15:27thousand renters all over milwaukee and
15:29we asked them questions about their kids
15:31and their experiences with homelessness
15:33and eviction housing problems we sent
15:35interviewers to some of the most
15:37affluent neighborhoods of the city which
15:38are these blue dots is some of the most
15:40poorest neighborhoods in the city which
15:43i had an interviewer mugged
15:48it's actually the same guy same
15:49interviewer actually
15:51don't feel bad steve
15:53steve needs to work on his situational
15:59but we worked we worked hard for these
16:01data you know and the things that i was
16:03learning on the ground living with
16:05with folks getting evicted working
16:06alongside landlords doing the evicting
16:08we're informing these larger statistical
16:10efforts like not only the questions we
16:12ask but how we even ask the question
16:14so take how do you ask someone if
16:16they've been evicted so when i was in
16:17the mobile home park tim
16:19was my neighbor and he was working
16:21construction hurt his back got hurt on
16:24lost his job couldn't make the rent got
16:25evicted he and his wife's names appear
16:28in the eviction records in court so i
16:30asked his wife rose like well was like
16:32being a victim she was like we were not
16:34eviction is like when the sheriff comes
16:36and they throw your stuff out the
16:37landlord changes the lock that's an
16:38eviction we weren't evicted
16:40so if we were like every other game in
16:41town we were like you know have you been
16:43evicted like in our survey a lot of
16:44folks like rose and tim would have said
16:46no and i think it speaks of the value of
16:47community engagement before we kind of
16:49run on and try to study these things
16:53didn't stop there collected hundreds of
16:55thousands and now hundreds of millions
16:57of eviction records from all over the
16:59uh we did a did a survey in eviction
17:02court because we were like confused by
17:03why you get evicted but you don't even
17:05though you owe the landlord the same
17:06amount of money collected 911 calls
17:09hundreds of nuisance ordinances whatever
17:10i could get my hands on and try to put
17:12that big data into a conversation with
17:14the smaller data you know my notebooks
17:16the things i was learning on the ground
17:18every day in milwaukee
17:20and in that spirit evicted this book i
17:22wrote is really a book that starts on
17:24the ground and it ends on the ground it
17:25follows eight families to the process
17:28of eviction so some are white some are
17:29black some have kids some don't
17:32so like lorraine's in the book lorraine
17:34was my neighbor in the mobile home park
17:35she was a grandma spending over 70
17:37percent of her income
17:39to rent a mobile home in a trailer park
17:40that was literally condemned by the city
17:43environmental biohazard
17:46when that is in the book fanetta was
17:48just like amazing mom trying to raise
17:52she was working at old country buffet
17:54during the recession and her hours got
17:56cut and she was so terrified of losing
17:58her home and maybe her kids to child
18:00protective services that she committed
18:01armed robbery to to make rent was
18:03someone without a criminal record
18:07i was given this talk like a few years
18:08ago in south carolina and i told that
18:10story and this guy comes up to me after
18:12really trouble and he was like i was the
18:13ceo of old country buffet when that
18:16and i was like i haven't noticed phone
18:19and we had we had a little god moment he
18:21made it he made things right so in that
18:23spirit in the spirit of like letting
18:25folks that have experienced this problem
18:27kind of guide our conversation tonight i
18:29wanted to share with you a one-person
18:33and that's our lean story
18:34so arlene had a 14 year old son named
18:37and he was cutting up one day throwing
18:39snowballs at passing cars
18:41snow is a cold white substance that
18:46and jory packed his snowball and smacked
18:48his car and this man jumped out like
18:50pissed off and so jordan's because in
18:52hightailed inside they locked the door
18:54but then the man followed them there and
18:56kicked the door and like busted the door
18:58and thank god he left before anything
19:00else happened but when arlene's landlord
19:02found out about that she decided to
19:03evict jory and the boys for damaging
19:07so arlene took her two kids jordan jafar
19:09shafarus was six to the salvation army
19:11homeless shelter which everyone in
19:12milwaukee just calls the lodge so you
19:14can tell your kids like we're staying at
19:15the lodge tonight like it's a motel
19:18and from there they were on the hunt for
19:19another place to live and they found
19:20this place which was on 19th street but
19:23there was only no water and jewelry had
19:25a bucket i was in the toilet
19:28but arlene told me look it was 525 for a
19:30whole house it was quiet
19:33it was my favorite place
19:37when we looked at that data we collected
19:39that survey data we collected and we
19:41asked what happens to families after
19:42they get evicted one thing that we found
19:43is they move into much worse housing
19:45they lived in before
19:47so if we want to know why some kids live
19:49like lead paint exposed wires no heat no
19:53one reason is their families are forced
19:55to accept those conditions the harried
19:56aftermath of an eviction
20:00so the city eventually found this place
20:02unfit for human habitation and they
20:04boarded up the windows and the doors and
20:05arlene and the boys are on the hunt for
20:07another place to live and she told jorie
20:09we take whatever we could get which is
20:11what moving looks like in that kind of
20:12situation you just take whatever you
20:16and what arlene could get was this drab
20:17apartment complex on atkinson avenue
20:21but she soon learned that the whole
20:23apartment complex was really drug soaked
20:25and hot the whole block was really crime
20:27filled and she feared for her boys like
20:29any mother would especially for jorie
20:32goofy and had this beautiful smile
20:34and would just talk to anybody
20:38so in arlene's case why she moved the
20:40fact that she was kicked out of this
20:41place was pretty important for
20:43understanding why she ended up in such a
20:44bad neighborhood and we thought can we
20:46test that statistically and we did and
20:48we found that you can control for a lot
20:49of different things and you still see
20:50that families who get evicted move from
20:52poor neighborhoods to even poorer ones
20:55they move from high crime neighborhoods
20:56to even more dangerous places in the
20:58city eviction seems to push families
20:59deeper into disadvantage
21:04so arlene moved out of that place as
21:05fast as she could she found this two
21:07bedroom bottom unit duplex on crossroads
21:09called 13th street and keefe right in
21:11the middle of inner city milwaukee
21:14there's a big old hole in the living
21:15room window the carpet was just like
21:17filthy and ground in
21:20the door didn't have a lock on it so
21:21arlene learned to lock it with a plank
21:23she slid into brackets
21:26but she put it on a good face you know
21:27she stuffed a piece of cloth in the
21:29window and she hung up ivory curtains
21:33so the rent for this kind of place which
21:36is located in a very poor neighborhood
21:38in america's fourth poorest city
21:42utilities not included which consumed 88
21:44percent of arlene's welfare check
21:47and she knew that some months she would
21:49have to sell her food stamps to make
21:50rent and her and the boys would get by
21:52on oodles and noodles
21:55when you're paying over 80 of your
21:56income on rent there's no extra money
22:01books for jory or toys for jafar so
22:03jafar's had this brilliant ability to
22:06transform like a bucket or mop whatever
22:08he can get his hands on into soldiers
22:11and tanks engaged in in warfare
22:16so as you all know arlene is not alone
22:18in spending the vast majority of her
22:19income on housing costs
22:22for about 100 years there's been this
22:25in america senator chang mentioned it
22:27earlier that we should spend 30 percent
22:28of our income on housing and for a long
22:31time a lot of americans hit that goal
22:33met that goal and that goal allows you
22:36afford enough food afford transportation
22:39but for so many renting americans today
22:41that goal is a pipe dream
22:43so this is a graph that comes from the
22:46it shows the percentage of poor renting
22:49spending 30 or less of their income on
22:50housing costs which is this blue line
22:53or 50 or more of their income on housing
22:57and you'll see the percentage of poor
22:58renting americans hitting our own
22:59standard of affordability has been
23:01dropping quick over the last two decades
23:03but the percent that are spending at
23:04least half of what they have on their
23:06housing has just gone up and up and up
23:07to the point that today
23:09the majority of poor renting families
23:11are spending at least half of their
23:12income on housing costs
23:15and about one or four of those families
23:16are spending over 70 percent of their
23:18income just on rent and utilities
23:22seventy percent of your income is just
23:24gone at the beginning of the month if
23:25you want a roof over your head in hot
23:26water under those conditions you don't
23:28need to make a huge mistake
23:31or have a big emergency hit your life to
23:35now something as small as a snowball can
23:38so for families like arlene's eviction
23:40is much more the result of inevitability
23:42than irresponsibility
23:47now look when i first crushed these
23:49numbers i thought they were wrong
23:54let me tell you who these numbers leave
23:57they leave out everyone in the census
23:59reporting they're spending over all of
24:01their income on housing costs
24:04now some of those people it's a mistake
24:06it's a it's a data error
24:09but some of that is life arlene is
24:10spending 80 of our income on rent forget
24:15so how is that even possible
24:18what you do is you pay your landlord in
24:20the winter in cold areas like milwaukee
24:22when there's a moratorium on gas shut
24:26but when that moratorium lifts in the
24:28spring in april you switch teams and you
24:30start paying your debt to the utility
24:32because you got to be back in the black
24:34next winter to benefit from the
24:35moratorium that's why evictions spike in
24:37the summer and drop in the winter these
24:39numbers are hard to believe and they're
24:43so how do we get here
24:46so for the past two decades really for
24:50incomes for many america has been very
24:51flat so if you're living in a home
24:53headed by someone with a high school
24:54education or less which are those two
24:56bottom lines your income really hasn't
24:58moved in the last 20 years in some areas
25:01of the country it's fallen in real terms
25:03including this area of the country
25:05but as that was happening housing costs
25:08they were soaring all over the country
25:10in hot markets like honolulu and la and
25:13san francisco and new york but also in
25:15like the south the midwest houston texas
25:19baton rouge louisiana
25:21basically rents have doubled over the
25:22last 20 years where incomes have been
25:26so families have this shrinking gap
25:28between what they're bringing in and
25:30what they have to pay for just a basic
25:31roof form of their head
25:32and then we might ask all right well
25:34what what about the government what
25:36about public housing what about i've
25:37heard about these things called section
25:398 vouchers what about those
25:41and the answer is they they're there
25:43they exist they help but they're only
25:44for the lucky minority
25:48so only about one in four families who
25:51qualifies for any kind of housing
25:52assistance any kind public housing
25:56voucher receives it but the unlucky
25:59majority the remaining 75 receive
26:02nothing not a zippo from state local or
26:05federal governments which would be a
26:07pretty crazy thing to stomach when it
26:09comes to other basic needs imagine if we
26:11turned away three and four families who
26:12apply for food stamps
26:14like i'm sorry ma'am or we we see you
26:16qualified we just don't have enough for
26:18you but that's exactly how we treat
26:21local families searching for affordable
26:26arlene gave up that search like a long
26:28time ago but one day just like on a whim
26:30she stopped by the housing authority and
26:31she asked about the list
26:33and she was told by the person behind
26:34the glass like the list is frozen
26:37because on it were 3 500 families who
26:39would apply for rent assistance five
26:44pretty good actually i got to say pretty
26:46good for an american city
26:48like the waiting list for public housing
26:50in some of our biggest cities is no
26:51longer counted in years it's counted in
26:55so if i applied for public housing today
26:57in washington dc for example
26:59i have two young kids
27:02chances are i'd be a grandfather by the
27:03time my application came up for review
27:06so if arlene wanted public housing this
27:08is what she'd have to do she'd have to
27:09wait three or four years till the list
27:11unfroze so she'd just get the doctor put
27:13her name on the list then she'd have to
27:15wait like another five or six years to
27:17name it to the top of the
27:18pile and then she just have to like pray
27:23that the person reviewing her
27:25application would ignore all the
27:26eviction she's collected while trying to
27:27make ends meet unassisted in the private
27:30so when we think of like the typical
27:34we shouldn't picture them living in
27:35public housing or getting any kind of
27:36help from the government we should
27:38picture someone like arlene because
27:40she's our typical case
27:44so on 13th street arlene got like a
27:46bucket of paint and brushes and she gave
27:48the walls a fresh coat
27:50but not long after moving in her sister
27:52died and she pitched in for the funeral
27:55it wasn't her biological sister it was
27:56like a really close friend we have
27:58people like this in our life and she
28:01she didn't have the money but like no
28:05the next month she missed an appointment
28:07with her welfare caseworker because the
28:09letter announcing her appointment was
28:10mailed to 19th street or maybe atkinson
28:14and so the caseworker typed something
28:16into the computer and our lean 628 a
28:19month check was cut we call it getting
28:21sanctioned and she fell two months
28:22behind in rent and she got the pink
28:27milwaukee is a city about 104 000 renter
28:30homes every year in milwaukee land
28:31there's a big 16 000 people that's 40
28:34people a day evicted in milwaukee or 1
28:36in 14 people evicted in the inner city
28:43an insane amount of instability that
28:45means you walk down uh the street uh any
28:48street in the inner city of milwaukee
28:49and you look to your left and you look
28:50to your right and on either side of you
28:52at least one apartment is gone by the
28:57but how representative is milwaukee like
29:01big of a problem is this when i
29:02published this book a few years ago and
29:07nebraska and i'd go to kansas and people
29:09would be like how big of a problem is
29:11eviction in my my city we had no idea
29:13the federal government doesn't collect
29:15eviction on eviction data
29:18which is like not knowing how many kids
29:19drop out of high school every year or
29:21how many americans get cancer every year
29:23this major social problem we didn't know
29:24anything about so for the past few years
29:27i've had a privilege of being on a team
29:30we call ourselves the eviction lab and
29:31we've built the only national eviction
29:34data set and we've collected over 100
29:36million eviction records we have done
29:38things for you like pull eviction
29:40records out of a gas station in west
29:41texas and get chased out of a eviction
29:44court in kentucky we worked really hard
29:46to really complete these data and we've
29:48made them all public and you don't have
29:50to have two phds in computer science to
29:52navigate these data you can go online
29:55and you can look at data for
29:57almost everywhere in the country we're
29:58gonna have a new data dump coming very
30:00soon which will mean we'll have updated
30:03and good comprehensive hawaiian data
30:04which i don't think we have now but
30:09one of the things we've been doing too
30:10is like tracking eviction
30:14the intervention that the federal
30:16government made in the eviction crisis
30:17during the pandemic was historic
30:20and like the government bureaucrats the
30:22design the rescue plan deserve a parade
30:25look at this so we had an eviction
30:27moratorium go into effect
30:31when the trump administration
30:32transitioned to dubai administration it
30:35was the only moratorium the country's
30:36ever had on evictions and it lasted
30:39it dropped this cova death rate one
30:44which means we saved tens of thousands
30:46of lives just keeping people in their
30:48home then the federal government devoted
30:5046 billion dollars to keeping to paying
30:53people's debt which is like taking hud's
30:54budget doubling it and throwing it all
30:56at those families and evictions now
30:58nationwide are still below national
31:01this is amazing to me
31:03after the great recession it took poor
31:05families 12 years to recover their
31:07incomes after this recession it took 20
31:12i think this this administration isn't
31:14giving enough getting up props and i'm
31:15just here to give it a little props so
31:17if you want updated eviction data for as
31:20many cities as we can get it you can go
31:22on our website you can contact us you
31:24can call us you can email us anything
31:25you want we're here to kind of answer
31:27all your eviction questions now these
31:29numbers reflect only formal
31:31court-ordered evictions okay these are
31:33evictions that are processed at the
31:34court but there are other ways oh let me
31:37this is something that i think we forget
31:39when we live in a city like honolulu
31:40where does eviction happen
31:42like whose problem is it is it just a
31:44problem of like really expensive cities
31:46and the answer is no
31:48like the highest evicting cities in the
31:49country are pretty average cost cities
31:52like richmond virginia albuquerque new
31:55mexico tulsa oklahoma wilmington
31:58delaware who's talking about wilmington
32:00delaware when it comes to the housing
32:02crisis we should be the crisis isn't
32:04just reflected in sky high rents and sky
32:07property cost it's also reflected in
32:10these eviction statistics this also
32:12isn't just an urban phenomenon so here
32:15is uh so these lines are county lines
32:17the purple is the density of the
32:18population so deeper purple means urban
32:20area so yes we have big eviction rates
32:25cleveland ohio or or pittsburgh
32:30non-trivial eviction rates in rural
32:31communities county suburban communities
32:33when we're talking about the eviction
32:34crisis we're not just talking about a
32:36coastal issue or an expensive city issue
32:38we are really talking about american
32:42so this is joe porzinski he was a
32:44building manager in the inner city
32:46milwaukee and he's like matt for every
32:48eviction that i do that goes to the
32:49court there are like ten that don't
32:52so what joe would do he would be like
32:54look you're behind and i need to pay my
32:57i'll tell you what if you're out by
32:59sunday i'll give you 200 bucks and you
33:00can use my van to move
33:03if you got to get evicted that's a
33:04pretty nice eviction
33:06i met another landlord that if he's if
33:08he's mad at you he'll just take your
33:09front door off he'll remove your front
33:11i met another landlord that will
33:13short-circuit the electricity on his own
33:14apartment and he places a call to the
33:16city anonymously on himself which caused
33:19the building inspectors to remove a
33:20family living in a place where unfit for
33:22him that's unfair for human habitation
33:24so there are a lot of ways to get a
33:26family out that don't go through the
33:27inside of a courtroom and we worked
33:29really hard to try to count all those
33:30ways all those informal evictions and if
33:33you add those up to formal evictions
33:35that are legally processed and if you
33:36count things like building condemnations
33:38like what happened to our liens place on
33:40even though like in milwaukee every two
33:43years one in eight renters is expected
33:47not one in eight like people in super
33:50like just one in a renters
33:53and for a long time poverty researchers
33:55journalists we've written sentences like
33:58low-income families exhibit high rates
34:00of presidential instability period
34:04sentence but what we're learning is that
34:07poor families are moving so much because
34:09this isn't just a rhetorical point
34:12you can run statistical models that show
34:14that poor families don't move more than
34:16anyone else if you control for evictions
34:18which means if we want more family
34:20stability and more community stability
34:21we need fewer evictions
34:25this is a problem that affects the young
34:26and the old the sick and the abled body
34:28but the face of our eviction epidemic is
34:30just moms with kids all the kids
34:32for any of y'all who've ever been to
34:34eviction court you just know you go
34:35inside there's just a ton of kids
34:37running around until recently the
34:39housing court in the south bronx in new
34:40york city literally had a daycare inside
34:43because there were so many kids coming
34:44through its doors south bronx eviction
34:49and black women like arlene and mothers
34:51in particular are evicted at stunningly
34:53high rates among milwaukee renters one
34:55in five black women reports being
34:57evicted sometime in her life
34:59compared to one of 15 white women
35:03i think that statistic should trouble us
35:05i think that should disturb us because
35:07that means that eviction is something
35:08like the feminine equivalent to
35:12we know that many low-income
35:13african-american men are being swept up
35:16by the long arm of the criminal justice
35:17system in america they're being locked
35:20locked up but many poor african-american
35:22women are being locked out they are
35:23disproportionately bearing the brunt of
35:27this also isn't just a crisis that's
35:29affecting places like the north side of
35:31milwaukee it's affecting poor white
35:33communities which i write about a lot of
35:34the books protecting immigrant
35:36it's everywhere in the country
35:40arlene went to eviction court
35:42and is his court custom milwaukee she
35:44got to stay two extra days in her home
35:46for each of her two kids
35:47and those days came and went and she was
35:49ordered to be out on a day in early
35:52milwaukee's cold in early january and
35:54this was like a devastatingly cold
35:56winter when this happened the weatherman
35:59said it could drop below 40 with the
36:02but if arlene waited any longer like the
36:04sheriff would come and they would arrive
36:06at the team of movers and a judge's
36:08order and a sidearm and they pile
36:10everything on the sidewalk like
36:12everything like the meat cuts in the
36:13freezer the shower curtain jafar's
36:17so arlene struck out into the cold and
36:19she and jory loaded a u-haul moving
36:21truck that a friend of the family had
36:24and i just got to tell y'all it was
36:28it was like that kind of cold that burns
36:32took her stuff to a storage unit arlene
36:34finally found a domestic violence
36:36shelter uh had a room about 40 minutes
36:38away from milwaukee she just lied about
36:40being abused so she could get her kids a
36:41room and she was once again on the hunt
36:43for another place to live and so she
36:57she had been evicted she would excuse me
36:59she had been accepted to nudge them and
37:01even in the inner city
37:02many were out of reach and the places
37:04she could afford if she basically threw
37:05everything she had at the rent
37:07weren't calling back either and part of
37:09the problem besides her poverty was her
37:12so this is what eviction record looks
37:13like it's public it's published online
37:17it shows the date of your eviction how
37:19much you know a landlord is claiming you
37:21owe them and if you got evicted or not
37:24and from a landlord's point of view this
37:27this is a marker of risk this is a bad
37:29tenant most landlords that i met with
37:31didn't accept anyone that got evicted
37:33within the last two or three years
37:35this is the reason why a lot of families
37:36are moving into worse neighborhoods and
37:39you know worse neighborhoods or worse
37:41than they lived before because they're
37:43they're blemished they're marked
37:46there was another reason a lot of
37:47landlords are saying no one wanted 800 a
37:50month plus like an additional 75 dollars
37:53and arlene allowed herself to laugh at
37:56another landlord on the phone just said
37:58like we don't want your kids ma'am
38:00children cooped up in apartments
38:05they use like the curtains for superhero
38:07caves they flush toys on the toilet
38:09cost some dude whose car just been
38:11smacked with a snowball to kick your
38:14they can test potter for lead that could
38:16bring a pricey abatement mortar they can
38:18draw the attention of child protective
38:22one landlord that i met was like look
38:23kids cause us headache
38:25discriminating against children is
38:28but many of us don't even count it as
38:30discrimination audit studies show that
38:32families face discrimination in one out
38:34of two of their housing searches
38:36arlene have time to think about that she
38:38just dialed another number so finally
38:41the 90th landlord she spoke to you mr 90
38:45he had a one bedroom apartment it was
38:47525 a month arlene didn't care what the
38:50apartment looked like what the
38:51neighborhood was like she told troy a
38:55so two months after they moved they got
39:00and once she and the boys had loaded a
39:04arlene just like sat down on the floor
39:07and um jafaris came and like snuggled up
39:13and jory came over and kind of pitched
39:14his head into his mom's shoulder
39:18you know like stayed like that for a
39:24so arlene got her stuff out of storage
39:27she hung pictures on the wall
39:29she'd like to keep things neat so she
39:31hung a sign over the sink that said jory
39:34if you don't clean up after yourself
39:40problems you guys remember what it's
39:52he's experiencing these stretches of
39:53homelessness between seventh grade and
39:55eighth grade george goes to five
39:59starts going to new school then he
40:00starts acting out a bit and one day a
40:02teacher yells at him and he gets angry
40:04and he kicks her kicks her in the leg
40:08so the teacher called the principal but
40:10then she thought it was appropriate to
40:13and when the police visited arlene and
40:14jory at their new place the landlord saw
40:17he told her she had to go
40:25kids are a big part of the story
40:27when i started this book i thought the
40:29kids would shield families for from
40:34in fact when we looked in that data that
40:36we did in eviction core when we were
40:38trying to figure out what makes the
40:39difference between this person who gets
40:41evicted and this person that doesn't
40:44you know what what it was it wasn't race
40:46it wasn't your gender it wasn't even how
40:47much you owed your landlord
40:51the chance of you getting an eviction
40:53judgment in court triple a ll sql if you
40:55live with kids and what you're seeing in
40:57that finding is landlord discretion
40:58you're seeing a lot of landlords say
41:08eviction arlene started to unravel a
41:23it's like i got a curse on me
41:25i won't stop for nothing
41:27sometimes i find my body trembling or
41:32i'm tired but i can't sleep i'm fixing
41:34to have a nervous breakdown my body is
41:40i published a study a few years ago to
41:42show that moms who get evicted
41:44experience higher rates of depression
41:52and we know that between 2005 and 2010
41:55years where housing costs were soaring
41:56around the country there was one other
41:58indicator that was growing up too which
42:00suicides attributed to eviction
42:02they doubled during that five year time
42:09just my soul is messed up
42:14i wish my life was different i wish
42:17that when i'm an old lady i can sit back
42:20and look at my kids and they'll be grown
42:27something more than me
42:29and we'll all be together and be
42:31laughing we'll be remembering stuff like
42:35and be laughing at it
42:52it's the center of life
42:57refuge from from work the pressures of
43:00the threats of the street
43:04we say that at home where
43:06ourselves everywhere else we remove our
43:13in languages spoken all over the world
43:17encompasses not just shelter but warmth
43:27in ancient egypt the hieroglyph for home
43:29is the same one for mother
43:34so eviction causes loss
43:36families is their home obviously kids
43:38lose their school lose your neighborhood
43:41ties you have to lose all your stuff
43:43which are piled on the street and
43:45scavenged by neighbors or taken to
43:47storage by movers and
43:49it takes a good amount of time and money
43:50to build a home an eviction can just
43:55an eviction comes with a mark or a
43:57blemish which can prevent you from
43:58moving in a good housing and safe
44:01but it can also prevent you from moving
44:03into public housing because the folks
44:05that run our public housing authorities
44:06even though they don't have to count
44:08eviction is a mark against your
44:10which means we're systematically denying
44:12housing help to the families that date
44:14it the most so we push those families
44:15into slum housing and we push those
44:17families into our worst neighborhoods i
44:19have a study that shows that eviction
44:20causes job loss and if any y'all in this
44:23room have been evicted you know why it's
44:24such a consuming stressful event it can
44:27cause you to make mistakes at work lose
44:28your footing in the labor market and
44:30then there's the effect that eviction
44:37when we add all that up we have to
44:38conclude that evictions which used to be
44:42which used to draw crowds
44:46they're not just a condition of poverty
44:48evictions are also a cause of poverty
44:50they are making things worse and they're
44:51leaving a diva jagged scar on the next
44:53generation we can't fix poverty in
44:56america or in hawaii
44:58without addressing the housing crisis
45:03so how do we address it
45:06so imagine if every family in the state
45:08in this country had a decent affordable
45:11place to live if arlene didn't have to
45:13give 80 percent of her income on rent
45:15she could keep her kids fed and clothed
45:18and off the streets we know
45:20from previous research that when
45:21families finally receive a housing
45:22voucher after years and years on the
45:24waiting list when they finally receive
45:26this ticket that allows them to pay only
45:2830 of their income on rent instead of 60
45:31or 70 of that they do one consistent
45:33thing with their freedom money
45:36they take it to the grocery store
45:41their kids become stronger and less
45:43anemic they move to better neighborhoods
45:45they don't move as much they work
45:48for the lucky minority families today
45:51but the vast majority of poor families
45:52in america aren't so lucky and their
45:55with names like jury and jafares
45:58aren't getting enough to eat
46:02because the rent needs first
46:05and if like we can't afford the freedoms
46:07this country offers us without a roof
46:10i don't need to get fancy about these
46:12freedoms basic stuff the freedom to
46:14invest in ourselves to be part of a
46:16community to protect our kids
46:18then shouldn't access to a basic
46:21affordable home be part of what it means
46:26we've affirmed provision in old age
46:29access to 12 years of education basic
46:31nutrition to be rights in this country
46:34the reason is very simple
46:37those things are fundamental to human
46:40vitality show me an argument that says
46:43that housing isn't fundamental they're
46:45human flourishing and vitality of course
46:47it is housing should be a right in this
46:49country and the reason is simple
46:52without stable shelter everything else
46:56so if we can buy into that then the
46:59question is like okay
47:01how can we deliver on that obligation
47:04and i gotta say there's just like a lot
47:06of good news here actually there's a lot
47:10i mean like just a few generations ago
47:12there were slums in our cities
47:14there were outhouses in the middle of
47:16philadelphia when some of us were still
47:18alive babies were dying of tuberculosis
47:21poor folks not only didn't have water
47:22they didn't have windows they didn't
47:25you had to wear your winter coat inside
47:26all winter long we took out a battle at
47:28the salaam as a country and we won we
47:32and i'll be the first to admit we still
47:34have a long way to go like when i was in
47:35the mobile home park in milwaukee i
47:37didn't have hot water and i told the
47:38landlord like um i'm a writer i'm going
47:40to write about you in your trailer park
47:46so i get like i get it
47:48but there's no denying that the country
47:50hasn't made huge leaps forward into the
47:52quality kind of housing that folks are
47:56i just think this is a really basic idea
47:58that we should meditate on because a lot
47:59of times when together
48:01in spaces like this we talk about
48:03poverty and homelessness racism those
48:05problems can feel so eternal and huge
48:09but it's not true like when we as a
48:11country wanted to take on huge problems
48:13we have come up with big solutions
48:16i also take a lot of heart in the fact
48:18that there are organizations and people
48:20all around the country just putting in
48:22driving down family homelessness
48:24preserving our rental housing
48:27and so one thing that my family and i
48:29have done with proceeds from this book
48:30is started an organization called
48:34and so you can go to this website it's
48:35called justshelter.org and you can click
48:37on hawaii and you can just look and see
48:39what organizations are put in the work
48:41in my community you can get plugged in
48:43maybe with your time or money or you can
48:45just learn what the problem looks like
48:46in your own communities i think there
48:48are so many people working so hard on
48:50these issues in the trenches invisible
48:52for so long and this is a way to raise
48:54their invisibility just a little bit
48:58okay so what's the what's the bigger
49:00picture here you know a problem as big
49:03as the affordable housing crisis it
49:04calls for a big solution we're bleeding
49:07and it would be disingenuous of me to
49:08stand up before you and say some little
49:11nudge we'll fix it or some little
49:13band-aid we'll we'll stop the bleeding
49:16real moral leadership on this issue we
49:18need bold policy vision on this issue
49:24we take a program that we have that
49:26works pretty darn well which is the
49:27affordable housing choice voucher
49:30and we expand it to everyone who needs
49:34now it is really simple if you qualified
49:36for the program hear me out
49:38you'd benefit from the program hear me
49:42and you would get a ticket and you can
49:43live anywhere that you wanted as long as
49:46your apartment wasn't too expensive or
49:48too shoddy and instead of paying 60 70
49:51percent of your income on rent you would
49:52pay 30 of your income and the voucher
49:54would cover the rest
49:56i don't know if you all have ever been
49:58with someone that's just received a
49:59housing voucher but i have
50:01and they act like they won the lottery
50:08that you feel when you can root down in
50:10a community and stabilize your family
50:13when you're investing what you should be
50:19it would change the face of poverty in
50:20america it would change the housing
50:22crisis in a state like hawaii
50:26so let's ask two hard questions about
50:29would that be a disincentive to work
50:32there's plenty of research that's been
50:34thrown at that question
50:36some studies show that when families
50:37receive a housing voucher they work a
50:39little less they don't drop out of the
50:41labor market they work a little less
50:43probably because they can spend a little
50:45bit more time in their family now
50:47more families excuse me more studies
50:49show that there's no relationship
50:50between receiving some help
50:53for your housing and labor market
50:55participation it's what nerds like me
50:56call a null relationship and i think the
50:59status quo was a much bigger threat
51:01to self-sufficiency and work than any
51:04affordable housing program could be
51:07families crushed by the high cost of
51:09housing can't afford community college
51:10classes or job training so they get
51:12plugged into a better place in the labor
51:13market many can't afford to hold their
51:15job down long enough because they can't
51:16hold their house down
51:18and think of all the brain power
51:20and like potential and beauty and
51:23intelligence that we just squander and
51:27because we ask someone like arlene to
51:29spend so much of hers trying to figure
51:30out how she's gonna make a rent from one
51:33month to the next or where she's gonna
51:34live after she's like inevitably
51:40poverty reduces people born for better
51:45arlene didn't want some small life
51:48she didn't want to like game the system
51:50and eek out a little existence she
51:52wanted to work and thrive and contribute
51:55poverty is a complicated problem
51:57but like providing a stable affordable
51:59home to her family would give her a shot
52:03at her realizing her full potential
52:10uh universal housing program sounds kind
52:17it's totally expensive
52:21we can totally afford it
52:24so a few years ago the bipartisan policy
52:26center crunched the numbers and they
52:28suggested they estimated that the kind
52:30of thing i'm asking us to consider
52:32tonight would cost us as a nation
52:34additional 22 billion dollars
52:37i think that was an underestimate let's
52:38say it's 30 billion or 35 billion
52:40dollars 22 billion 30 billion dollars
52:46it's well within our capacity we have
52:50we've just made decisions about how to
52:52so every year in this country homeowner
52:54tax subsidies like the mortgage interest
52:59those subsidies far far outpace direct
53:01housing assistance to the needy
53:05we already have a universal housing
53:11it's just not for poor people
53:14so the year that arlene got evicted from
53:1613th street we as a nation spent about
53:1941 billion dollars on direct housing
53:21assistance to the needy
53:22housing vouchers public housing
53:24everything 41 billion dollars
53:27that same year we spent about 171
53:32on homeowner tax subsidies
53:36that number 171 billion dollars is
53:38equivalent to the entire budgets of the
53:40departments of education veteran affairs
53:42homeland security justice and
53:44agriculture combined
53:45it's a rather large number
53:47most of that benefit went to families
53:49with six-figure incomes
53:51bigger income bigger mortgage bigger
53:52mortgage bigger deduction most white
53:54americans own their home
53:58and are eligible for one of the sweetest
53:59cutouts in the tax code most black and
54:01latinx americans do not because of our
54:03legacy of systematically
54:05discriminating against people of color
54:10it's hard to think of a social policy
54:14that does a better job of amplifying our
54:16racial and economic inequality than our
54:20so if we're going to spend the bulk of
54:21our public dollars on the rich at least
54:23when it comes to housing i say we just
54:25be honest about that
54:26i say we just don't up to that be like
54:28we like it like this actually this is
54:30the social contract that we can sign our
54:31names to instead of repeating this lie
54:34that the richest country on the planet
54:36can't afford to do more
54:38if poverty persists in america or in
54:41hawaii it's not for lack of resources
54:46we lack something else
54:50okay so that's one idea um there are
54:54and um you know the housing crisis can
54:56be solved in a lot of different ways
54:58probably should be you know what works
54:59in milwaukee is probably going to fail
55:03but whatever our way out of this mass i
55:04think one thing is certain which is like
55:11whole denial of just a basic human need
55:14and this level of social suffering
55:17this blunting of human potential
55:25this doesn't have to be us
55:28by no american value is this situation
55:31justified there's no ethical code
55:33there's no piece of scripture there's no
55:36that can be someone to defend what we
55:38allow our country to become
55:40thanks so much for y'all time and really
55:42looking forward to the conversation
55:58thank you matt is this mike on
56:01okay so we're going to do um q a mostly
56:06cards that many of you are passing to
56:09students in the aisles
56:11but we also wanted to hear from
56:14there's so many people in the audience
56:18really hard creatively diligently on
56:21addressing this crisis in hawaii so we
56:24wanted to just invite a couple of people
56:26up to either ask a question
56:31um so we'll do that for like three or
56:32four people and then we'll um have one
56:34of our grad students
56:39questions that we've been collecting and
56:41reviewing during the talk so i first
56:43wanted to invite up representative nidin
56:45nakamura the chair of the housing
56:48committee in the house of
57:04dr desmond for your speech and for
57:07all that we learned from um your
57:09experience talking about arlene
57:12and talking about the
57:14experience that you went through with
57:16landlords and tenants i think we can all
57:20the hawaii state legislature is taking a
57:25in trying to address the affordable
57:27housing problems in hawaii
57:30very similar problems to them to the
57:34but as senator chang said
57:37we have the highest rate of homelessness
57:42the cost of housing is skyrocketing
57:47some of the exciting things that we are
57:49proposing this session include
57:54providing 600 million dollars to the
57:57department of hawaiian homeland so we
57:59can address the 28 000 people who are on
58:04we're proposing to put in 300 million
58:08dollars into the rental housing
58:11so that we can leverage low-income
58:13housing the federal low-income housing
58:15tax credits and build housing for the
58:20we're also looking at putting in 15 to
58:2330 million dollars into ohana zones so
58:26that we can build transitional housing
58:29assessment centers and wrap around
58:32services for our homeless families and
58:36we are looking at leveraging our tanf
58:39funds temporary aid for needy families
58:42for those with very extremely low
58:48to set aside this block grant that we
58:51get and right now under the current
58:54families who qualify these are very
58:56extremely low-income families with
59:00they only get two months worth of
59:04housing allowance rental housing
59:06allowance according to our state rules
59:10so our legislation is to increase it to
59:13the five years that they can stay into
59:15the program and get up to 500 a month
59:19and that's moving along in our
59:23and i think one of the
59:25non-legislative uh program that we are
59:29is taking advantage of the 2.86
59:33billion dollars that hawaii will receive
59:36from the infrastructure investment and
59:41focus on how we can use this
59:44to build infrastructure
59:47for affordable housing
59:49and so we are working very closely
59:51working with the hawaii business
59:52roundtable working with each of the
59:55counties to identify the low-hanging
59:57affordable housing developments and the
01:00:00infrastructure that's needed to make
01:00:03and and then try to build as many homes
01:00:06as we can with this infusion of federal
01:00:09funding so with all of these
01:00:13make a dent we're going to have to
01:00:15continue this level of funding
01:00:21i'm really excited to be part of a
01:00:23legislative team that's that's willing
01:00:26move in this direction we know we if we
01:00:30the housing problems will get even worse
01:00:33so we thank you so much for the insights
01:00:36that you raised we agree totally that
01:00:39section 8 housing that's project-based
01:00:41for those with special needs especially
01:00:43is is critical and the whole mortgage
01:00:47is a subsidy that
01:00:49could be channeled to other uh uses
01:00:54thank you very much thank you
01:01:03matt you should you should feel free to
01:01:04jump in and say whatever you like in
01:01:07um but i was going to next invite up our
01:01:09lieutenant governor also an emergency
01:01:12um who's devoted a lot of his
01:01:15work in public office to what we might
01:01:18i guess the post-event post-eviction
01:01:21sector of the housing market hawaii's
01:01:25rate of houselessness
01:01:37the spirit of the ending of the mask
01:01:39mandate tomorrow i'm going to just not
01:01:43professor thank you for being here
01:01:46a quick comment and then a question so
01:01:48in hawaii when people have been evicted
01:01:50or become homeless
01:01:52we found that though hawaii has the
01:01:54longest average lifespan in the country
01:01:56for those who are doing well about 80
01:01:58years of life healthiest state
01:02:01those who are houseless
01:02:0430 years less on average in hawaii so
01:02:08essentially has become the worst disease
01:02:10you can get to be housing unstable
01:02:13it disproportionately per your
01:02:16affects those who are
01:02:20we don't maybe describe them as
01:02:21minorities in hawaii because we are a
01:02:23series of minority populations but those
01:02:25who are hawaiian my wife's family live
01:02:27an average of 10 years less and i'm sure
01:02:30that it's coupled to what you've
01:02:34two questions i guess maybe you might
01:02:38as i hear the excellent
01:02:41processes that are going on in the
01:02:43legislature and the things they're doing
01:02:44and i was there with them for 14 years i
01:02:47sometimes feel like
01:02:48the problem is so big it's like a tidal
01:02:50wave even overcoming good ideas
01:02:53using 10 of monies or putting more money
01:02:55into revolving housing trust funds it
01:02:57feels like we never get ahead we never
01:03:00so if you might comment on what dramatic
01:03:02or bold things could be done
01:03:04one and the other question i thought i
01:03:08we're going to raise it appears uh the
01:03:12we're at 10 and 10 cents which is
01:03:1521 000 a year for a person at minimum
01:03:18wage and you know hawaii very expensive
01:03:21not possible to live on those
01:03:24what is the impact in a place like ours
01:03:28great cities across our country if we
01:03:29really do dramatically increase wages to
01:03:35is there housing out there can that
01:03:36actually help us stem this tidal wave so
01:03:39just some things maybe to opine on
01:03:41alpine away so um
01:03:44we should clap we should clap
01:03:51i think there's good news and bad news
01:03:54the wage to living wage you know you
01:03:56know what happens when you raise minimum
01:03:59wage to living wage is like
01:04:01what do you give people and you really
01:04:03literally give them life
01:04:06people stop smoking as much
01:04:08child abuse rates go down
01:04:11people sleep longer
01:04:12people work less you know
01:04:14so what we're doing when we're not
01:04:16paying people a fair wage for their
01:04:18labor is we're literally stealing life
01:04:21from them and i'm glad you framed this
01:04:23question as as one that was centered
01:04:25around health and life because that's
01:04:27that's where it is so i
01:04:29applaud you for raising minimum wage i
01:04:31think that's not only
01:04:33morally necessary but just
01:04:35incredibly life-giving
01:04:39but here's the thing that happens often
01:04:40in cities that raise the minimum wage is
01:04:42the housing market recoups
01:04:44your costs or your wage and so
01:04:47and this has been the case for over 100
01:04:511830s there was labor unrest in america
01:04:53a lot of workers were going on strike
01:04:55raising kane and the industrial
01:04:57capitalists that had the factories went
01:04:59to the landed capitalist and said hey
01:05:01help us put down these worker strikes
01:05:02and the landlord's like no way because
01:05:04when you jack up the wage we're going to
01:05:06jack up the rent and they did and that's
01:05:08been repeated over and over again in
01:05:10america and you can look at these econ
01:05:12studies and it shows that like when
01:05:14cities raise the minimum wage the
01:05:18often raises as well it doesn't recoup
01:05:20all of the wage but it recoups some
01:05:23which suggests that you can't
01:05:25you can't like ra we can't get out of
01:05:27this problem only by raising the floor
01:05:29you know we have to do something uh
01:05:31about the ceiling and figuring out where
01:05:33bills are are going to where the money
01:05:37then you ask the question about being
01:05:38big and being visionary and one thing
01:05:40that i heard in that question so
01:05:42i can answer that question a lot of
01:05:43different ways right i could say we
01:05:45should we should build a lot more
01:05:46housing we should expand a lot more
01:05:48vouchers we you know
01:05:49i could i could show i could tell you
01:05:51what's going on tacoma washington where
01:05:52the school system teamed up with the
01:05:54housing system and realized that like
01:05:56we're going to stabilize these
01:05:57classrooms and invest these kids
01:05:58education we were talking about uh the
01:06:00health care industry getting in into it
01:06:03and how uh hospitals are investing in in
01:06:05housing as a community based health
01:06:08intervention which it is
01:06:09but the thing that you said right is
01:06:11like you kind of get these headwinds
01:06:13right you get these headwinds and what i
01:06:18i think was about us a lot of times
01:06:20we're like man if there was only the
01:06:23we are the political will
01:06:26the political will for folks like in the
01:06:27state legislature and for folks on city
01:06:30councils when they propose building a
01:06:32homeless shelter in a community or
01:06:33building affordable housing development
01:06:35there's a lot of people exercising their
01:06:37political will against those things
01:06:40and we need other voices in the room
01:06:42we need people to be like i would love
01:06:44to have an affordable housing
01:06:45development in my community i think
01:06:47that's part of what it means to be in
01:06:49this community i would love my kids to
01:06:50go to school with those kids i would
01:06:53if we're not in the room raising our
01:06:55voice of that i don't know how much of a
01:06:57claim we can make on being progressive
01:07:09um i wanted to shift just for a moment
01:07:10to the kind of non-profit community and
01:07:12there's just so many people
01:07:15here representing a variety of
01:07:18a whole series of groups funded by
01:07:21hawaii community foundation to like a
01:07:23big trust kamehameha schools that has a
01:07:25lot of pilot and interesting projects
01:07:28trying to increase affordable housing
01:07:30for native hawaiians
01:07:33to there's a lot of interesting programs
01:07:36people who've lost their homes
01:07:37themselves have been building their own
01:07:39communities in waianae and waimanalo and
01:07:41other places but i just wanted to single
01:07:43out one terry george he's the ceo of the
01:07:45castle foundation might talk about some
01:07:47of the organizations he's working with
01:07:50just to give you a
01:07:51a sense of some of the non-profit work
01:07:53that's going on too and then we'll turn
01:07:54to a couple of your um a few of your
01:07:57questions submitted by card even though
01:07:59the clock is kind of
01:08:01moving relentlessly toward close
01:08:05you guys aren't gonna clap for terry
01:08:12thank you appreciate it aloha everybody
01:08:14and thanks so much for being here um
01:08:17just want to talk about how you made me
01:08:19mad and a little bit smart and you're
01:08:21making me mad again but maybe talk a
01:08:24little bit about what we've done with
01:08:27a private foundation on the green side
01:08:29of this the windward side of this island
01:08:32called the herald castle foundation
01:08:34so i was you know in an airport
01:08:37between flights picked up a light
01:08:39reading entertaining called evicted
01:08:41started reading it and i got so
01:08:42horrified immediately stopped reading
01:08:45and gave it to james koshiba and said
01:08:46you got to read this because he is one
01:08:49of the smarter thinkers i think are on
01:08:51how to solve these
01:08:52challenging problems
01:08:55but anyway we learned from grassroots
01:08:57community leaders that after the first
01:08:59six nine months of the
01:09:01pandemic on the windward side when the
01:09:04bottom dropped out of our
01:09:05tourism-dependent economy
01:09:08initial thing to look at and then
01:09:10healthcare housing was on their minds
01:09:13so we built up a grassroots element to
01:09:17the eviction prevention work to take
01:09:19advantage of all the federal dollars and
01:09:21we co-designed it with a bunch of people
01:09:23who are in the room
01:09:27funded several grassroots organizations
01:09:30then created community navigator
01:09:32positions for by trusted community
01:09:34leaders there are ten of them
01:09:36you won't be surprised they're all women
01:09:38they're almost all native hawaiian or
01:09:39pacific islander and they're
01:09:40unbelievable and those folks over the
01:09:44have actually prevented a thousand
01:09:46evictions on the windward side through
01:09:48just relentlessly working together
01:09:54one of the things that i'd like to
01:09:56challenge all of us you've got some big
01:10:00and hawaii has actually been a pioneer
01:10:02for other big ideas
01:10:03like affordable health care
01:10:06and i'm wondering whether or not with
01:10:07the kind of leadership that we have
01:10:09in our legislature
01:10:11and the kind of unified horror of the
01:10:13future that we're going to face if we
01:10:15don't wrestle with this whether or not
01:10:17we might want to take some of your large
01:10:19ideas so my first question is
01:10:21you know would you be willing to
01:10:24this after you go back
01:10:26to the east coast to really iterate this
01:10:28together because i think we could be a
01:10:32the second thing to share with you to
01:10:33make you feel good is that we used the
01:10:36eviction lab we're still using it for
01:10:39the work that we're doing on the
01:10:40windward side we've got a group here
01:10:41called the hawaii data collaborative
01:10:43that's brought a lot of new energy into
01:10:45data strategic data analysis so they
01:10:48overlaid some of the data that you have
01:10:52and then we overlaid over that the data
01:10:54that our community navigators were doing
01:10:56on their own little sales force
01:10:59program to see whether we were actually
01:11:01making a dent in the areas that of
01:11:03greatest need and that's kept us all
01:11:05honest which is really helpful
01:11:08so we're continuing to use that and then
01:11:09the final thing is that you really made
01:11:11me understand and the community
01:11:12navigators are learning this too
01:11:15is there's this vast sort of underworld
01:11:17that has will never be touched by the
01:11:19good work that's going on right now in
01:11:21the legislature hopefully about official
01:11:23subsidized housing you have so many
01:11:26people right now on the windward side
01:11:30they're they're choosing not to go
01:11:31through eviction or they're being forced
01:11:33not to go through it and they're just
01:11:35couch surfing with friends families and
01:11:37neighbors and they're not homeless
01:11:38enough to be counted
01:11:41and they're there and no one is counting
01:11:43them the only ones who actually know
01:11:44anything about them are the homeless
01:11:46liaison officers in the public school
01:11:48system and we're doing nothing for them
01:11:51and so i'm curious to know what what
01:11:54where we can learn
01:11:56um what other places can we learn from
01:11:58you mentioned tacoma is one great
01:12:00example what are other places that we
01:12:01can really learn from and be emboldened
01:12:04and also finally are you willing to
01:12:06continue to work with hawaii in some way
01:12:08i think it's a work that has to take
01:12:10place in person though it feels like
01:12:12that's the the only
01:12:15the only way we can really get it
01:12:18um i love what you all are doing here
01:12:20you know i would be honored to continue
01:12:22the conversation i think that there's
01:12:24things that we can do that are that are
01:12:26big and and visionary you know could
01:12:29could hawaii be the leader of the
01:12:31country when it comes to establishing
01:12:33the fundamental need for housing for
01:12:34every single citizen of hawaii you know
01:12:37lead the nation on that i sure hope so
01:12:40there are things that we can do that are
01:12:43that look they're costly and they should
01:12:45be investments and there are things that
01:12:46we can do that are absolutely free for
01:12:50in rochester new york
01:12:52if you want to evict someone you have to
01:12:53use your real name the name on your
01:12:57it's just rochester's like we're going
01:12:59to keep a tab on who's doing all the
01:13:00evicting in this in the city i think
01:13:02that's interesting you could seal
01:13:04eviction records so that eviction
01:13:06records can't be used to harm people's
01:13:08housing searches or their credit now if
01:13:10eviction court was a fair court like you
01:13:11see in the movies or something and
01:13:13there's lawyers on both sides and you
01:13:14know but that's not how it is you know
01:13:16there's no right to an attorney in civil
01:13:18court so most folks you know who are
01:13:21getting evicted don't show up i wouldn't
01:13:23show up if i had to face off with my
01:13:24landlord's attorney you know so i think
01:13:26that you can think about sealing cases
01:13:28you could think about investing in
01:13:30providing legal counsel to families in
01:13:32eviction court so there are a lot of
01:13:34things that are going around in the
01:13:34country so when new york for example
01:13:37established a right to an attorney in
01:13:38eviction court they reduced eviction
01:13:40filings in the city by 40 percent over
01:13:43three years huge intervention providing
01:13:45folks with a lawyer by their side if any
01:13:47of us would are getting evicted and we
01:13:49could afford it we'd hire a lawyer you
01:13:50know we know it's the right thing to do
01:13:52so i think investing in uh in a right to
01:13:57there are cities that are small and have
01:13:59a lot less resources than honolulu does
01:14:01that are doing amazing things like i was
01:14:04i was in wichita kansas where a bunch of
01:14:07catholic nuns just got fed up by the
01:14:09housing crisis and they pushed for an
01:14:11extra sales tax and all the the money
01:14:13went into building affordable housing
01:14:15seattle has a has a housing tax so the
01:14:18housing levy that they've passed for 30
01:14:21the last 30 years because and they they
01:14:22sell it be like we're not going to
01:14:23become like san francisco you guys know
01:14:25there are more dogs than kids in san
01:14:27francisco right now more dogs than kids
01:14:29it's becoming unlivable to families and
01:14:32so seattle's like we're not going to be
01:14:33like that they passed the housing levy
01:14:35last time they did it they raised
01:14:39what was it 200 million dollars over
01:14:41seven years it passed 70 percent of the
01:14:43vote so i think we can raise our own
01:14:45revenue and invest in affordable housing
01:14:47too so there's tons of things going on
01:14:48around all around the country we don't
01:14:50have to look very far to see programs
01:14:52that are working we just need to dose
01:14:53the problem bigger
01:15:05thank you so much dr desmond for your
01:15:07amazing talk tonight thank you also to
01:15:09our three commenters who are gone a
01:15:11little before um and many things to
01:15:13everyone in the audience who has also
01:15:14sent in their questions um to the front
01:15:16we really appreciate it due to time
01:15:18constraints we unfortunately won't get
01:15:20to every single one of them but we will
01:15:23so the first question i have for you is
01:15:26we cannot slowly build our way out of
01:15:28this problem what regulatory solutions
01:15:30do you recommend for community like ours
01:15:33so we need more housing we do need to
01:15:36but building means investing in the
01:15:39problem in the in the future too right
01:15:40we need interventions now for kids now
01:15:43and we need intervention inventions for
01:15:45families later so i think building is a
01:15:47huge part of the solution but there are
01:15:50other things you could do right now so
01:15:52we talked about regulatory solutions so
01:15:54you can make evictions harder
01:15:56you can make it more costly
01:15:58that really helps you can think about
01:16:02making a housing court more humane so
01:16:05hawaii used to have a mediation in
01:16:07housing court i don't know if that's
01:16:10but if it is that's amazing so it's
01:16:12that's very simple it's like if you want
01:16:14to evict someone you got to go through
01:16:16mediation first think of it as like drug
01:16:18court for housing philadelphia has a
01:16:20mandatory mediation session right now
01:16:22it's drastically reducing evictions in
01:16:24the city like evictions are often
01:16:27thought of as like okay
01:16:29someone's like seven eight months behind
01:16:32what else can i do i go to a victim
01:16:34that's like two percent of evictions in
01:16:36the country more than six months behind
01:16:38in rent you know most evictions over two
01:16:40months in rent but a third of evictions
01:16:42in the country are for less than a
01:16:43month's worth of rent
01:16:45like in virginia for example one in 10
01:16:47evictions are for less than 350 dollars
01:16:50and so there are interventions we can
01:16:52make in this problem
01:16:54that are just so cost efficient that we
01:16:57can intervene upstream so we don't have
01:16:59to deal with a problem downstream and
01:17:00it's just more humane
01:17:04thank you the next question is this uh
01:17:06what do you do when no landlords would
01:17:08take vouchers we have dozens of
01:17:10individuals who get the vouchers but no
01:17:12landlord would take it
01:17:14right so the voucher needs to be more
01:17:16responsive to your hot housing market so
01:17:19many landlords aren't taking the
01:17:20vouchers because they don't have to
01:17:22right they're making a good return
01:17:24anyways without your intervention we can
01:17:26make our vouchers more responsive to it
01:17:28so this is a little nerdy but follow me
01:17:32hud sets the limit for housing vouchers
01:17:37something that's called a fair market
01:17:39in new york city for example the fair
01:17:41market area includes the upper west side
01:17:44and queens okay it includes the most
01:17:47posh area of the city and the poorest
01:17:52that the vouchers are not going to work
01:17:55on the upper west side and they overwork
01:18:01like let me let me break it over so like
01:18:03if i have a voucher and sarah does not
01:18:05and we're neighbors
01:18:07most people that have a voucher end up
01:18:09in low-income neighborhoods
01:18:11so a landlord can charge me more than
01:18:14charging sarah and they do
01:18:16and so like in milwaukee if i had a
01:18:18voucher i would be paying 50 more a
01:18:20month than sarah would
01:18:22i wouldn't be paying it taxpayer would
01:18:24be paying it our vouchers don't have to
01:18:26be so blunt like we can make it much
01:18:29market efficient we can also make it
01:18:31illegal for landlords to turn away
01:18:33someone because they have a voucher
01:18:34period so this is called source of
01:18:36income discrimination
01:18:39and we can say look you can't
01:18:41discriminate if you're racist you can't
01:18:43discriminate against kids and you can't
01:18:45discriminate just because someone's
01:18:46paying the rent through a voucher period
01:18:48now if we just use the stick though i
01:18:51don't think it's going to be entirely
01:18:53successful i think a lot of property
01:18:54owners are going to say well i'll sell
01:18:56it or i'll convert my building into a
01:18:58condo and sell it on the market so we
01:19:00also want to make sure we understand why
01:19:02property owners are saying no to voucher
01:19:04holders and some of the reason is
01:19:06because they find the process onerous
01:19:08they find the housing inspection onerous
01:19:10and i think we can meet property owners
01:19:12in the middle about that and kind of
01:19:14make sure that we can say look we're not
01:19:16going to allow you to discriminate
01:19:17income but we're going to make this
01:19:18process a lot easier than it has been
01:19:22although this passionate analysis is
01:19:24incredibly important did you feel an
01:19:26urge to directly help the families you
01:19:27studied and did the evicted families
01:19:30also receive any kind of material or
01:19:31financial benefit from being in your
01:19:33studies i did feel the urge and i did
01:19:35help so i think that you know there are
01:19:39where i felt like the moral imperative
01:19:41just like superseded the scientific
01:19:43imperative so there was one time where
01:19:46vanetta had been in a homeless shelter
01:19:49uh and just looking for housing looking
01:19:51for housing finally she gets housing in
01:19:52milwaukee at the bottom of the market
01:19:54when you're in housing often your
01:19:55apartment doesn't come with a fridge or
01:19:57stove you just like move into this like
01:20:00apartment with nothing
01:20:01and she got into an altercation with a
01:20:03neighbor and a neighbor called child
01:20:04protective services on
01:20:06vanetta and so she called me just
01:20:07terrified because you know you don't
01:20:09have a refrigerator you're living with
01:20:11young kids you don't have a fridge
01:20:13and so she asked to borrow money to go
01:20:14buy a fridge and a stove so i did that
01:20:17um in the story i told you tonight like
01:20:19i was the guy that rented arlene the
01:20:20u-haul truck i think that in the
01:20:22university there's this idea this whole
01:20:25idea that like you need distance to
01:20:26understand a problem
01:20:28and i think there's plenty of distance
01:20:30in the university um
01:20:32i think that distance is the problem i
01:20:34think you can fall in love with people
01:20:36and still tell their story honestly
01:20:39and so yes the folks in evicted did
01:20:41receive financial contra
01:20:45what contribution i don't i don't
01:20:46remember it's like it's like 2 a.m where
01:20:52and so my wife and i started a
01:20:53foundation called the evicted book
01:20:55foundation where we shared proceeds with
01:20:56the folks that are in the book they
01:20:59weren't promised any uh proceeds when i
01:21:01started the research they told their
01:21:02story willingly and without coercion i
01:21:05had no idea if anyone would buy the book
01:21:07and uh but we've been able to send some
01:21:09kids to college and pay off medical debt
01:21:11and stabilize people's housing and
01:21:20how do you address the the problem of
01:21:22eviction in a state like hawaii where
01:21:24the rate of homelessness is closely tied
01:21:26to the history of this position and the
01:21:29eviction of kaneka maoli for the native
01:21:31hawaiian population i feel like i'm over
01:21:35on that question skis are things that
01:21:40so you know i i i don't
01:21:44i feel like there's so much about hawaii
01:21:46that i need to learn and understand to
01:21:48really nail that question
01:21:50but i don't feel it's too controversial
01:21:52to be like hawaii's not
01:21:56in dispossessing people of color from
01:22:00and which means that part of our
01:22:05has to be a reconciliation with justice
01:22:09and not just a policy fix and so the
01:22:13most white americans are homeowners is
01:22:16because the federal government
01:22:18after world war ii
01:22:22you know so so after world war ii we had
01:22:25the gi bill it was 16 of the federal
01:22:29nothing is 16 of the federal budget
01:22:3216 of the federal budget is like nothing
01:22:35we've ever seen before or since the gi
01:22:37bill was huge almost one in two
01:22:39mortgages after world war ii were
01:22:41veteran mortgages but black and latinx
01:22:43and other people of color who were
01:22:45veterans who served were barred you know
01:22:47their neighborhoods were redlined the
01:22:48banks weren't loaned to them and so they
01:22:50were cut out and left out of this deal
01:22:52so i think that and i you know and i
01:22:54know that hawaii has similar uh stories
01:22:57and so i think that
01:22:58when we're thinking about this we have
01:23:00to think about this
01:23:02in terms of of riding and restoring
01:23:04historical wrongs or else we're never
01:23:05going to get out of the problem
01:23:08um because at the time is now um 805 i
01:23:11will ask this last question what covert
01:23:13relief programs have been most
01:23:15successful and what should we keep
01:23:18we should keep all of it
01:23:20we should keep all of it so