00:04so um to start about so when we
00:07introduce ourselves maybe we can share
00:08something our main question around
00:11monetization and pricing um so we can
00:14have bit of a discussion around it um so
00:18I am Alberto you'll know me the founder
00:20of prend um and I am based in Madrid and
00:26the main question I have around
00:27monetization and pricing is
00:30around how to price experiences like the
00:33fellowship where there's a very heavy
00:36component of uh life uh courses that are
00:39usually priced pretty heavily in other
00:42uh parts of world uh like other maybe
00:44trainings and stuff or experiences um
00:47but where we want to be mindful of
00:50access and not making it too expensive
00:53at the end of the day um and I think
00:56anything that has to do with pricing
00:57communities um I'm really interested in
01:00in potential models for
01:04Tron um I'll I'll pass it on to maybe uh
01:11cat um I'm cat tazar and I'm founder and
01:15CEO of we think Inc and analyzing the
01:18data around essential skills some people
01:21call them 21st century skills some
01:23people call them soft skills it really
01:24doesn't matter we have our own
01:25proprietary framework of those skills um
01:28and we are doing that with an interface
01:30that is wrapped around popular esport
01:32games like League of Legends um Heroes
01:34of the Storm fortnite fall guys and so
01:37on um we sell B2B um right now to
01:41Scholastic Esports teams as well as pro
01:44teams in the US and in the UK at the
01:46moment um and I think my main question
01:50around pricing is um well we have a new
01:54head of sales on so far we've had a
01:55tiered model so depending on how many
01:57you know students players athletes you
01:59have that are a part of your team or
02:01League um are price jumps starting with
02:045,500 a year so it's an annual um
02:07subscription model um our new head of
02:11sales is Lego and Ubisoft and is
02:12suggesting we go with a um that low
02:15price and it's unlimited um to capture
02:18market and then add other revenue
02:21streams like um you know certifying
02:23coaches to train the skills that we have
02:27to their teams and players because it's
02:28the coaching market and the space is
02:30huge um and uh and so on so that's what
02:34he has from his experience and it sounds
02:37great I know that we'll definitely get
02:38more people on board that way um but
02:41yeah I'm not sure how to make that
02:43decision intelligently so would be happy
02:46to hear thoughts super interesting
02:49Esports is a completely like new
02:53thing for like for me like it's
02:55something I like I got to know only like
02:58in the past year or something uh that
03:00it's a really massive thing and growing
03:04soting and my husband my husband is like
03:06a serious gamer uh it doesn't play one
03:09of those like Esports games but like I
03:12hear about like the trends all the time
03:16him cool thanks for sharing cat
03:21Christine hey hi my name is Christine um
03:25I'm the CEO of work ready Africa um so
03:28we do like mile training for graduates
03:31um and try and get them into the
03:33workspace um so for our program we've
03:36divided our cost in into two at the
03:39moment um we have um a fee that they pay
03:44once they get into the program and it's
03:46quite low cost of of course uh for the
03:48four months um we just cover our costs
03:51basically on that piece but then once we
03:54get them into employment that's when
03:56they have to pay us back uh for those
03:59and never nevertheless we don't always
04:00get all students to get into the
04:02internship piece of our work SL
04:04employment uh but even if we didn't
04:06we'll still make up quite a bit um from
04:10you know we could make a good profit
04:11from um whatever employment repayments
04:14we get uh but at the moment it's deemed
04:17that because our cost is so low getting
04:20into the program probably it's a quality
04:22issue as well um which is not the case
04:24so how do you navigate that when you
04:27know they're graduates they've never
04:28worked and so that's why you're trying
04:30to keep the cost down so that at least
04:32they can be attracted to the program
04:35want to know about it um but then once
04:38it come you know and they come in and
04:40they think oh my goodness this should be
04:41way more but and then you know now just
04:45the people that the new clientele we
04:47want to attract um we don't want them to
04:49think oh this is probably some lowcost
04:52program and that's why they put the
04:54price so low um quality issues
05:04to how are you where did you disappear
05:07to oh sorry I'm late I didn't want to
05:10interrupt it sounded like you guys were
05:13busy we were just doing a intro round so
05:22um so yeah we were asking like you know
05:26who you are and what is your kind of
05:28main question or ch around
05:32monetization um so my name is t I'm the
05:36co-founder of Fate we provide
05:39educational resources to students in
05:42Africa with limited internet access
05:45using localized chat Bots and we've gone
05:49through a couple of iterations of trying
05:52to find a monetization model our first
05:55idea was that we would get students to
05:57pay us directly by but the payments
06:01infrastructure just like wasn't robust
06:03enough for that and so now we're working
06:05on a Marketplace model where we bring a
06:08supply of students in and then pair them
06:12with people who have demand for those
06:14students and so we're running two pilots
06:16at the moment the one with a company
06:19that wants to distribute career guidance
06:21content and the other with applications
06:23to a coding boot camp that's yeah brief
06:27summary I'm sorry I missed everyone
06:34ta Michael do you want to give a small
06:37short intro before we move on sure yeah
06:40um I guess I'm most interested in with
06:43transend network it's a community we run
06:46a fellowship we're going to start
06:47another fellowship later this year most
06:49likely and um as Alberta was saying with
06:53different regions of the world uh being
06:55able to have different flexibility with
06:58uh cost or tuition or Community
07:00membership uh I'm really interested in
07:03looking at sponsorship models with other
07:05ecosystem partners that really want to
07:07support uh Founders in certain segments
07:10of the education industry or in certain
07:12regions um because yeah I just think
07:15it's like there's like a double side
07:17model of like some from uh fellows and
07:21some from uh sponsors and things like
07:24that is what I'm interested
07:28in cool very cool okay so I'll go I'll
07:33just move on and uh introduce
07:35myself um my name is LAM um of you know
07:40me uh I was in the last cohort uh the
07:44the the Autumn cohort say I would call
07:48Fellowship um my company is called
07:50clustered and what we do is it's a
07:53cohort based course platform for
07:55creators to easily create and scale
07:57cohort-based courses
07:59um so we work with creators from
08:03backgrounds um to create their courses
08:06and we also create Community around the
08:09topic um which is something that we're
08:12still like kind of figuring it figuring
08:15out which part of the strategy it is
08:18exactly um and and yeah one of our we
08:23have a few challenges and there are a
08:24few things that we're constantly kind of
08:27um discovering and learning and like
08:30with working with creators that
08:33are uh very different uh and have
08:36different very different
08:38profiles uh basically our challenge is
08:40kind of divided into the world of
08:43creators and how do we help them
08:46monetize their services and their
08:48learning communities especially when
08:51switching from a one too many um kind of
08:56a format where some some of them like
08:58sell um M's and online
09:01courses um where sometimes they have
09:05control over the price if they if they
09:07use like a toolkit service like
09:09teachable thinkific and then they can
09:11they can create their own price but then
09:13they have a massive burden of
09:15marketing um and they they have to work
09:18a lot to constantly bring people to uh
09:21to their website and create funnels that
09:23work for them that can also be quite
09:26expensive um and on the other hand
09:29there's also like the udmi style
09:32marketplaces uh where you can easily
09:35more easily get uh get uh
09:39students but then they first of all they
09:41charge a lot like they take a very big
09:44fee especially if the if the students
09:46come from the marketplace and also they
09:48control your price a lot of the time so
09:52they they can cut your price and then
09:55$9.99 um and and it will end up not like
09:58not not really being worthwhile and more
10:01of a kind of topof the funnel product a
10:05lot of the time that some of them use
10:07marketing and less for actually getting
10:10paid but like the the purpose itself of
10:13getting paid is and getting you know
10:16getting money for what they're doing
10:18it's a massive thing in the Creator
10:21space um so it's like a always like a
10:23big question also it's something like we
10:25work we talk to investors about and
10:28people ask and they ask us like what is
10:30the earning potential of a
10:32Creator right because um we because we
10:36also make money out of how much the the
10:38Creator makes money um and so it's it's
10:42something that we're constantly asking
10:44and and we found out that there are
10:46different tiers of creators and some um
10:49some have uh you know better marketing
10:53skills A Better Community Better
10:55Community skills better just like
10:57options for uh to easily sell their
11:01courses um but it's definitely like
11:04something that is like what is the
11:07earning potential of a Creator it's such
11:10a big question and something we're
11:11constantly kind of uh checking and
11:14researching and and a lot of other
11:17players in the Creator space are um but
11:20one of like the things that we we kind
11:23of say also in our pitch that you could
11:26earn more on a cohort based course than
11:28you could good um on other types of
11:32courses um because the the value that
11:34you bring is way higher um and this kind
11:38monetization and sorry the kind of a
11:41facilitation process and Etc um gives
11:46you just gives you a better
11:49um yeah better case to to to charge more
11:54money um so so yeah so this is and we're
11:57still like contemplating models for
11:59examp because right now it's kind of
12:02transaction based uh we work in a kind
12:09so so if uh if a student uh reaches uh
12:14like the the the website and and buys
12:19one of the courses then we get um 5 to
12:2310% depends on the on the price of the
12:26course um and there's also a
12:28subscription but we haven't been able to
12:30graduate anyone from the premium
12:33transaction based yet to the
12:35subscription model which is also
12:37something that we're we're asking
12:38ourselves should we have a fremium model
12:41should we just maybe have a trial that a
12:43lot of our competitors have you just
12:46have a trial and then you go directly to
12:48pay monthly and there's no transaction
12:51fees um but on the other hand we find
12:56creators um do prefer to have like the
13:00low a lowrisk option first to be able to
13:05convert um but definitely someone that
13:09$33,000 course or even a thousand course
13:14uh would prefer uh not to pay the five
13:18fee um so it's like it's still something
13:20we're we're we're checking and also like
13:24what kind of um what kind of um
13:29or uh like generally like what kind of
13:33um payment models do we want to build
13:34for the creators like do coh Bas coher
13:38based formats work with the subscription
13:43memberships because it's so oriented
13:47oriented right like because you have
13:49like a maybe a three month course but
13:52then maybe you want to keep paying to
13:55stay a part of the of the um of the
13:59cohort as a membership so like combining
14:02different monetization options like
14:05different uh payment models uh for
14:08example you can pay I don't know $1,000
14:10for the three months and then you pay
14:13like another 20 bucks just to stay in
14:15the cohort um but then there are other
14:18questions arise what happens if some
14:20people pay it some people don't some you
14:23know some can leave uh so there's just
14:26like constantly these questions
14:29um regarding also what would creators
14:33want what do they want in their
14:36toolbox uh to be able to make it easier
14:39for them to sell their
14:41courses um so like these are basically
14:45the main things that we're struggling
14:47with um and we're just trying different
14:51things uh constantly talking to creators
14:54and we also find that there are
14:55different profiles and some prefer that
14:57and some prefer that
14:59so it's a it's a constant kind of
15:02a constant research constant like trying
15:05to understand what is the what should we
15:08build first and what are the the things
15:10that are most important to
15:13creators uh but it's also really
15:16interesting to me what like the the
15:18things that Alberto and Michael um
15:21talked about because I do feel it
15:23matches a lot with kind of the sometimes
15:26the challenges that our creators have
15:29um for example we have a Creator now
15:32that is building a course uh around uh
15:36sustainability so it's a very impact
15:40driven uh very you know she's very
15:44on changing the world making it Greener
15:47uh helping people change their uh um
15:52their behavior and buy um change your
15:55consuming Behavior Etc so she she finds
15:59it very difficult to charge money for
16:02her course and she's been giving so much
16:06so many free workshops so much things
16:09but she's like I'm working so hard I
16:11want to be able to monetize uh these
16:14experiences but at the same time she
16:16feels uh she she struggles with uh
16:23um because yeah it's also because it's
16:26such a kind of social driven goal
16:30um and and I think also something like
16:35sustainability it's something that is
16:37like it's not like a you know a MBA
16:41program or or some kind of a you know
16:44like a course that you can take and then
16:47end uh you can get a better job for
16:51example it's like something that's very
16:53lifestyle uh that people want to change
16:55their lifestyle and everything so it's
16:57also hard to put a clear Roi on
17:00it um and and I think a lot of
17:04communities are that way um so like even
17:08if you if you if you take like a course
17:12that has a very specific okay will get
17:14you I we you'll be able to launch a
17:17podcast in six weeks or even launch a
17:20course in six weeks Etc it has a very
17:22clear goal but what happens when the
17:25community is also the main
17:29product um and there is no
17:32necessarily like for example the
17:35fellowship um is kind of an an an
17:39introduction um kind of an experience
17:42where you it's very hard to define the
17:47it um and it's not necessarily a bad
17:50thing I think it's it's a good thing um
17:52because it's kind of kind of a community
17:56is also something that you get from it
17:59depending on how much you put into it so
18:03like you constantly have to get people
18:10engage uh BEC and and it's not just like
18:13okay like a one- siiz fits all you get
18:16product um so it constantly has to to
18:18prove itself and and make sure that um
18:23that it makes sense um so so yeah so
18:27like what do you think about about that
18:35challenge Alberto or
18:40Michael maybe just one thought to get
18:47as as you think about pricing for
18:49different experiences that transcend do
18:53um I think I over time kind of the way
18:57that I see it evolving is we will
19:01have like the fellowship will become um
19:04no worries k um thanks for for making it
19:10um um the way that I think about it is
19:13will charge we'll have a fellowship that
19:16will be a lot more expensive than it is
19:18now um where the founders won't have to
19:21pay for everything themselves we'll find
19:24a way to kind of distribute of identify
19:27the the interests of other organizations
19:30that can become sponsors basically and
19:33uh at some point like carry of half of
19:36that burden that tuition burden
19:40um and then we will just have to invest
19:45self-paced um content that allows us to
19:48kind of introduce Founders to what the
19:51idea of the fellowship is earlier and
19:54earlier in the life cycle where
19:57basically because they it's so hard to
20:00find an Roi for transcend or for I don't
20:03know other um other experiences I think
20:06people just need to experience it first
20:08and see the value in it by the so that
20:11when by the time that it they have to
20:13pay for something they just immediately
20:15get it and maybe this is kind of
20:17touching on what CAD was sharing um
20:19around making it premium um at first and
20:23being able to kind of get people to try
20:26something so that when they have to make
20:28Next Step it's almost like an OB the
20:29question is always on these things also
20:31in courses is where is the aha moment
20:35exactly um where is that moment where
20:38you feel like oh like this will be worth
20:41it especially like if you get something
20:46um what you what you like what I like I
20:49don't like it when there are some
20:50products that are like when they're free
20:53they're completely stripped of like
20:55anything that is useful and then every
20:57time you click on something like oh you
20:59have to pay for this you have to pay for
21:01that and that's like it didn't get me to
21:03the actual realization of what this
21:06product can do um and and I think also
21:10like when Comm in community it's it's
21:13sometimes very difficult to to create
21:18quickly um and and it's also like a
21:20challenge that we have in and getting
21:23people because creating a course is such
21:25a such a long process um um it's also
21:29something that sometimes
21:31creators uh find it difficult to know
21:33like okay when when do I know that this
21:36this works uh when is there exact aha
21:40moment so I think yeah I think that's a
21:41main that's the main challenge of like
21:44you first of all first of all you guys
21:47have a very kind of long sales
21:50process um but it's all but it's a part
21:52of the of the of the Val of the core
21:55well because you cu the
21:58curation is a big part yeah of the
22:02product right like the fact that you
22:05know that you are exclusively chosen um
22:10to be to be a part of it so like how do
22:14that um like there it's something that
22:17I'm I'm also trying to to kind of do
22:20some research around like how for
22:22example how do on Deck do
22:24it right how do they how are they able
22:33money uh without trying it
22:36first is it's just a
22:40hype it's interesting I'll just share
22:43one one quick uh thought um was I've
22:46been talking to a lot of a few Founders
22:48recently um who were thinking about this
22:51kind of similar question of like what is
22:52that point where you change um the your
22:56willingness to pay for something where
22:58you're like yes I'll kind of cross that
23:00Chasm and it seems to me that most
23:03products are either kind of selling kind
23:06of the breaking point is either you can
23:09get a better version of the product
23:11right so this could be Spotify right
23:13like no ads like all the music you want
23:17you're either getting that you're
23:19getting Prestige that can be a second
23:21one like um I'm going from participating
23:25in startup school which is free and it's
23:28yeah um it's a cohort based thing it's
23:30like you're actually meeting on the
23:31founders you just don't have you can't
23:33put it you can't raise money with it um
23:36or you're getting access to a social
23:38you're going from a single player to
23:40multiplayer um and that's kind of the
23:42chasm that you're Crossing and an
23:44example here would be corsera um which
23:48they've um I guess they they're doing a
23:52little bit of the third and the second
23:54one because they're also being able to
23:55give you an actual accreditation for
23:57something like here's an assessment that
23:59you passed and like you can use this as
24:01a credential and um in my mind on DEC is
24:08basically selling that uh kind of
24:10prestige um so the number two uh from
24:14the get-go um I think what they're doing
24:18and but I I can see a world where it
24:22kind of that Prestige thing ends up
24:25being a little bit diluted unless
24:27they're able to build a really strong
24:28cohort experience yeah um that they can
24:31communicate really clearly um so yeah
24:36that's my kind of understand what you're
24:39saying about like the diluted
24:41part um it yeah it's like it's cool when
24:45like when you graduate when there are
24:47not that many graduates but then if
24:49everybody graduates from it uh it's not
24:52as prestigious and I'm also not
24:54completely sure about their
24:56curation an onboarding experience like
25:00choose uh participants Etc um like what
25:04like what are your thoughts about like
25:06the ISA models for something like
25:10that I think Christine is has some
25:15thought sorry no um I think I was just
25:18thinking through like what we have in
25:20transcend and I say we
25:25course so I I was going through you
25:28remember when you asked us to do the
25:29five-week goals of what everybody was
25:32thinking and where they were I I think
25:34probably that would be really great data
25:36for you to look at because it tells you
25:38where people's bonning desires are and
25:41therefore would then tell you what
25:43people are willing to pay for um I I
25:46guess probably I've been part of a
25:48number of fellowships and this was
25:49reasonably priced because and I believe
25:52vital voices charged something like
25:551500 um a couple of the others like
25:57Acumen and all were free because they
25:59had they have a lot of years of
26:01experience and they have a lot of
26:03funders behind them so this is
26:06definitely not a big um thing for them
26:09but I I mean for what people were
26:13requesting um I thought wow I mean it's
26:16quite a lot of demand and maybe if you
26:19did go through that quite a bit that
26:22could tell you things that you could
26:23have as a club CU I could imagine that
26:26once I get to the stage where I need get
26:28funding to be introduced to investors I
26:30don't mind paying to be part of that
26:32club so that I can be introduced to the
26:34people that I need to know I
26:38don't uh I I just wanted to give so T
26:41and RM you guys haven't seen this but in
26:44the first week we asked them like what
26:46what are your main goals uh for the
26:47fellowship uh try to kind of cluster
26:49them into different um categories and
26:52then create like support groups uh with
26:55other Founders based on those uh goals
26:58um and I think the the the difference
27:02like I guess the difficulty there so
27:04Christine we we use that um often as we
27:06design the sessions and uh thinking
27:08about like doing uh one-on-one checkins
27:11um starting next week but um the
27:15difficulty there is that it's not um
27:18like the challenges or the goals are
27:19very different between Founders and so
27:22if it was for example like fundraising
27:24then I think it would make sense for us
27:25to flip the model and say we're GNA help
27:28you with fundraising so much we'll only
27:30make money if you make money right so
27:32basically like what you were sharing
27:33your model Christine that's like outcome
27:35based we'll charge you a little bit just
27:38to kind of cover the basics but like
27:40we'll take a percentage and that kind of
27:42answers your question rtim but because a
27:45lot of Founders don't have the goal um
27:48like that same goal um it's hard to kind
27:51of claster all those needs it's not a
27:52financial goal necessarily and then I
27:55yeah and then I think that the the
27:57reason why we went for an initial
27:59tuition and not like a some sort of
28:01membership and this is always something
28:03we're open to changing uh is that uh
28:06another thing we found is that right now
28:08people are really excited about the
28:09fellowship the first uh five weeks it's
28:11like really exciting um often people
28:13like have to go out and fundraise or
28:15lunch a product and they disappear from
28:17the face of Earth and then they come
28:18back like three months later and they're
28:20like okay this was awful like now I want
28:23other Founders to help me like get
28:25through this or like they want to they
28:26want more experience or they need help
28:28with something and we almost like want
28:31to have a model that's okay with that
28:33where like you don't need to get value
28:34every single month maybe you get value
28:37at first and then maybe like at some
28:38point in the future you get some value
28:40yeah um so those are all things I do
28:43think that's where tears can come to
28:46play where you can always have a
28:49solution for those people that want the
28:53intensity right because like for me as a
28:56as a high well High engaged person uh
29:00which got a lot from the transcend
29:02Fellowship The Experience from going
29:05through all like meeting twice a week to
29:07like uh the the expert The Experience
29:10afterwards was a bit like underwhelming
29:14because I was like oh I want to continue
29:15like I'm on a roll I want to continue
29:17meeting people especially like that I
29:19had like a group where we met a few
29:21times and stuff and then it would kind
29:23of went quiet so I would have loved to
29:26have this like option
29:28for to keep the high
29:31intensity um going if I want to um and
29:34if I can afford it like for example like
29:37if I'm like going into fundraising and
29:39my personal choice is to be highly
29:42engaged while in the process and keep
29:45like you know having an accountability
29:47group or something like that um that's
29:50definitely something that I would pay
29:52for um and in order just in order to to
29:56continue to have the same experience
29:58with like a small cohort of people and
30:00like the more people that go into the
30:01fellowship you'll have more people that
30:03have similar interests and have similar
30:05goals uh that you can cluster into
30:08smaller cohorts for specific
30:11purposes um so yeah that's what I think
30:15that like it doesn't have to be like you
30:17have you can have different tiers
30:20of of services that you can offer and
30:23not necessarily like even the fellowship
30:28yeah RM I have a I'll share my screen in
30:31a second here but I have a resource that
30:34I think I could speak to the transcend
30:36example since we're kind of case
30:37studying it here a little bit but um it
30:41uh I'm going to share my screen just
30:44because I think it it applies to this
30:45tiered model uh interestingly and um
30:49what I'm going to share is from the more
30:51in-person training world back when
30:53inperson was still a thing that may back
30:56in a year um so mainly from like
30:59leadership development trainings at
31:00companies uh and Enterprise where you
31:02hire facilitator for $20,000 they'll
31:04come in for three days and things so I'm
31:07gonna share this example but I think the
31:10principles apply to the digital space as
31:12well about how we think about
31:14pricing monetization um so what I'm
31:18showing here I think you were just kind
31:19of saying it RM it's like this tiered
31:22idea but looking outside of just a
31:25tiered idea of how you move people um
31:28like through a journey where they uh
31:30keep investing more because they're
31:31having a good experience with your with
31:34your service and and things um usually
31:37there's like an intro level whether a
31:39transcend Network as an example it would
31:40be free programming that we would put on
31:42at some point or a notion based toolkit
31:46around the future of learning in
31:47workspace it's almost promo but maybe
31:50it's like five bucks to get access to it
31:52and it's just more to build a
31:54transactional relationship on top of
31:56genuine Val relationship as well to
31:59begin to build a culture of both but at
32:01some point people get to a core offering
32:03which right now is our
32:05fellowship um and then at some point
32:07after that RM you were saying oh I'm
32:09interested in like even more engagement
32:11because I got value at that level I'm
32:13ready to take the next step yeah and for
32:16us Alberto and I the true premium at the
32:19end of the day is actually um investing
32:21in companies um from a fund that we want
32:24to we want to put together around this
32:26whole concept where we're now just
32:28taking Equity positions and then putting
32:32more effort like personalized effort
32:34almost on a one-on-one excl more well
32:37they use the word exclusive here but
32:38more on a one-on-one basis and uh but I
32:41think in transcend there's multiple core
32:44uh areas that can that can be core to
32:47and that's what you see on Deck do is
32:48they have like eight fellowships across
32:51different different areas they have like
32:53a wide core because they had the
32:55reputation that they didn't really
32:57really need to do too much at the intro
32:59level they did a lot of free events in
33:01San Francisco for three years or two
33:03years oh really to build that like
33:06community that they just put a price
33:08point on it and they started in San
33:10Francisco that had a very high price
33:12point a lot of people in San Francisco
33:14can afford $2,000 without even at least
33:17Their audience yeah their Tech audience
33:20and last thing I wanted to share with
33:21this example was when you think about
33:23low value at that that entry level to
33:26medium value to high value the and I'm
33:29happy to share this too there's um
33:31there's all these things to Think
33:33Through in terms of like is it scarcity
33:35is it scale how customized is it the
33:38urgency that people want it all affect
33:41how you price something from like almost
33:43free to like super expensive um but yeah
33:46just wanted to share that because I
33:47think it built upon RM what you were
33:49saying with tier pricing yeah that's
33:50that's really really
33:52useful um and yeah and it's it's
33:55basically also kind of the same kind
33:58uh um of think of like of thinking that
34:02we also share with our creators when
34:03they're thinking about creating their
34:05own courses like how how urgent is the
34:09problem that you're working on in your
34:11course um who is the person that's going
34:14to pay for it like do they can they
34:16afford it um and and how how also like
34:21some people wanted like for example I
34:23gave you like the the um the person with
34:27um with the sustainability course and we
34:30also have someone that's running like a
34:32negotiation course for like highlevel
34:35Executives um and she she's like I'm not
34:39charging less than than x um because my
34:43target audience can pay this um so but
34:47but of course but it also for her it
34:49means more work in the sales process she
34:52will have to work harder to sell it um
34:55it means like she'll have to do more
34:57like webinars and more like free
35:00consultations and offer free content Etc
35:03um so there's always like it depends on
35:06like where your price where your course
35:09is positioned or where your product is
35:11positioned um according to like and how
35:15much you're going to have to Market it
35:16and sell it um and of course what kind
35:19of Creator you are I'm curious to know
35:24you uh curate the people who
35:27offer courses on cluster like do you try
35:30and make it like a more high-end um
35:34experience where people who have like
35:36very Niche markets can charge a lot and
35:40then it'll be this like seamless
35:42experience that Their audience would
35:44expect at that price like I just I don't
35:47know I think that that's like really
35:48interesting what you were sharing about
35:50the negotiation course I was also on
35:52your website and it did look very cool
35:54yeah the thing is like we are we're
35:57still kind of checking uh we know we
36:00know that we have we definitely have
36:01like three categories of creators the
36:04ones that are usually charged kind know
36:07between 100 and 400 for the courses uh
36:10the ones that charge 400 to 900 like we
36:12can really see there's like the early
36:14stage creators the like the ones that
36:17are more like uh middle stage and the
36:20one that are like experts and then they
36:22feel just more confident in uh in in
36:26selling high-end course um but but like
36:31we don't like we Cur it in a way like
36:34the the main thing we curate is
36:36Readiness uh and that's the thing that
36:38we learned from our last cohorts that
36:41people need to have some content ready
36:44and being able to put the time uh
36:48investment in into launching a course um
36:52and that's the the main thing that we
36:54curate so like in our Early Access if
36:56someone tells us like oh I'm only
36:58thinking about creating a course um
37:01unless we see that their profile is
37:03already someone that is that already has
37:05online courses or already has some kind
37:09profile we we we we like we we refuse
37:14because we do feel like in order to to
37:16be successful in this process you need
37:18to have some kind of a Content ready
37:21already but when it comes to like The
37:24Prestige of the course we are testing
37:27different creators to actually
37:29see what is the different uh like f
37:33first of all what's the different LTV
37:34for these kind of creators um like maybe
37:38maybe it's better for us
37:41to uh to actually Target the early stage
37:45or like people that charge uh a smaller
37:48amount of money because they're easier
37:51convert um or or just easier to get
37:54easier to get into the funnel uh but
37:57then there are also some people that are
37:58like experts and and the high-end ones
38:02get but but are filling up their courses
38:07easier so we're testing
38:11different different profiles right now
38:14yeah that that makes a lot of sense it's
38:16it's something that's like quite hard to
38:18think through we've also been thinking
38:20through it with the pilots we're doing
38:23for companies who want to reach our
38:27where uh one of them is with an NGO who
38:29is just a nightmare to work with and is
38:32always trying to like increase the scope
38:34of the project and has been such a pain
38:37and we've been like we're just never
38:38working with NOS again like done it's
38:41over true we also we find it that like
38:44the early like the the beginner kind of
38:47creators are the ones that require the
38:51voming and then bring in the
38:54lead where like for there some like
38:57people that already have this experience
38:59you send them the stuff and they will
39:01send you it all back to you after a day
39:03and I was like okay I'm ready to go I'm
39:05just gonna I'm like work or or they're
39:07more struggling I don't know with their
39:09funneling or something like this but not
39:11in the course creation
39:12process um so yeah it's like it all it
39:17is it is important to to get these
39:21right um yeah I think that something
39:24somebody said to me that was really
39:25useful was like if you're a startup you
39:29just want to go for the easy win so you
39:31you want to avoid like difficult clients
39:33as much as possible until you're
39:35established but that's like really hard
39:37like is an easy win for you guys like a
39:40very high-end course that will be filled
39:44quickly in the education
39:47space I don't know if it exists it's not
39:50like you know converting a user like for
39:52Clubhouse or any kind of social
39:55platform um when when you put in things
39:58that like engagement and impact
40:02and it's it's very difficult to get easy
40:11space I think it's something yeah and
40:14and sometimes and I feel like that
40:16there's such a big difference when I
40:17speak to investors in the education
40:19space and investors like outside of the
40:22education space where they're like okay
40:23show me numbers show me things like um
40:26um and um and I feel like the investors
40:30I talk to in at Tech space have a bigger
40:35uh of like of of how it looks like um
40:41and what the challenges
40:44are yeah I was gonna say I'd love to uh
40:48I know we only have a few minutes left
40:50but would love to talk a little bit more
40:51about Christine's uh challenges because
40:53it sounds like super it's like super
40:56outcome based uh pricing model uh and uh
41:01yeah I'm just curious to learn more
41:02sorry I think there a kids like
41:04screaming outside my window do you want
41:10something I don't torture kids in my you
41:16closet oh my God this
41:19kid God uh yeah would love to learn more
41:23about Christine's model uh since it
41:25sounds like a slightly different from
41:27what we're I definitely think like that
41:30outcome based um models are super
41:34interesting and how you structure them
41:41them sure um so I I think probably I got
41:44this from Kepler as well um because ke
41:47Kepler does um income share agreements
41:49with all our students so we don't
41:52actually charge the student while
41:53they're doing the Course once they
41:55finish and they've started making income
41:58then um we definitely tear we definitely
42:01then come up with what payment plan they
42:04would have based on whatever income you
42:06know they have um coming up so um with
42:11us I think we just when we started with
42:14um Work Ready in Freetown and in Nigeria
42:18graduates coming out of school never had
42:20money um but we we started off doing it
42:23free definitely then the attrition R was
42:26high because people didn't really take
42:28the course seriously so we then had to
42:30introduce some fee into it and so we we
42:34just chose the lowest fee that can cover
42:37um our our minimum cost like just
42:40exactly what we need to cover is what we
42:42charge the students at this entry level
42:45um given the certain number of students
42:47of course that need to be in that
42:48program but then as we then look for
42:51work because definitely the student
42:53coming to us um wanting to work will be
42:56what they are looking for at the end of
42:58the day um so you've done the course
43:01it's a separate fee but then now that we
43:03moveed to this part that we need to get
43:05the jobs for you um we just thought it
43:08would be then something that we can
43:10charge our premium on um and get them to
43:13do because that's where the burning
43:15desire is and people would want to pay
43:17once that happens now we we're slowly
43:20moving the model from having the
43:22contracts directly with the students to
43:24having the contracts with the employers
43:26because yeah that's what I wanted to ask
43:28like you would charge a student or an
43:30employer for the placement students at
43:34this time um we did try with the
43:37employers when we started initially um
43:39there wasn't a great interest um in the
43:42employers um because we we were new they
43:45really didn't see the value of getting a
43:47new person into their space to work but
43:50as the students have gone in we're
43:52starting to get a bit of traction um
43:54employers are now saying oh why don't we
43:56just sign on you with up with you and
43:58then whenever we want to you know
44:00recruit we just come to you so we've I
44:03mean we've been in the space for about
44:05two years so we' had to buy our time um
44:08but by 2022 we're hoping to have got our
44:11employers on boarded um as the way we
44:14would be doing uh the payments in the
44:17future is there a is there a big need
44:20also from the employer side I'm sorry is
44:23there a big need also on the employer
44:25side there is I mean that's why we
44:27started uh the employers are saying you
44:30know students come out of college some
44:32of them have never even start worked on
44:34a laptop so you can imagine uh the kinds
44:37of needs that they have so the different
44:39things that have been identified is what
44:41we work on uh and that last mile
44:43training to get them into the workplace
44:46uh so once you have a student coming in
44:48who can probably even manage a project
44:50because they have the tools to be able
44:52to manage a project and know how to use
44:54it well um if it's an added Advantage
44:57but we've I mean from the onset when we
45:00started the employers didn't really see
45:02the need and thought you know for every
45:05person that comes through our doors
45:07there's still a need to train them um
45:10and why spend so much money um
45:12recruiting them uh but now the
45:15difference is being seen that they
45:17coming with that advantage and we're
45:19doing other courses so like in seron we
45:22started doing payroll trainings um quick
45:25book training bookkeeping trainings just
45:27those added ones um and for us that
45:30gives us added um revenues as well you
45:33know that we giving more topup trainings
45:36to the people but then um yeah
45:39definitely um the the employers are now
45:42coming to say okay let's do this the
45:45students are paying but in their own
45:47time so it's somewhat of an income share
45:49um with the students um once they have
45:52to pay that lumpsum amount at the end of
45:55the uh training program how long is the
45:58agreement like how long do the I say so
46:02we I mean it depends um culturally we
46:06don't really like loans um and we do
46:08them interest Fe as well so you find um
46:12it comes to about probably three four
46:16months some students have finished ping
46:18depending on whatever the salaries are
46:21we have some that have gone on longer
46:22but we haven't gone past the one-year
46:29interesting Terell you want to say
46:31something yeah I I have a well firstly
46:34like I think what you're doing is so
46:36amazing and like I can imagine the
46:38difference that it makes for graduates
46:40and I'm really excited for when you guys
46:42expand to South Africa which is where I
46:45am because this is so needed here as
46:47well um but I wanted to ask is it like a
46:50traditional Isa or is there a like
46:53lumpsum payment regardless of your
46:57sry a tradition so it's just traditional
47:00Isa so as income as you as your income
47:03is so we we portion your your repayments
47:06um so and it's something quite big in
47:08Kepler um where we I mean we've got
47:12impact investors really interested in
47:13our work there um where our students
47:16sign on the loan um with us over five
47:20years and those amounts are much bigger
47:21and then you know we repay over time but
47:23I think Rwanda is just slightly
47:25different because the country of itself
47:28has a better structure in terms of being
47:31able to track people down so you know
47:33students can't go abroad to study if
47:36they have big loans within the country
47:39and this loan is deemed um you know a
47:43loan that is quite necessary for
47:45that that makes sense sure and CHR just
47:50a a clarification um so the students
47:53take out a loan and then they repay it
47:55through through the income that they're
47:57making um until they complete the amount
48:00of the loan with some interest okay
48:03because I think what a lot of like the
48:05the most boot camps in in the US that
48:08have become like this Meme Over the last
48:11uh few years um they actually they don't
48:16get the money back on a on a loan they
48:19actually uh they often make a lot more
48:22money than in the loan so it ends up
48:24being a lot more expensive for the
48:26um so I guess when you say income
48:28sharing agreements um people might
48:30expect that you can like make basically
48:33like two to three times the the amount
48:36that you'd be getting on a loan so um I
48:39think it would probably be like an
48:40income based repayment loan repayment
48:43instead sorry it is income share so it
48:46is a bit more it's like 120% or 150
48:49almost some days depending on how many
48:51years the income takes to uh for them to
48:54be able to pay because it's basically
48:56what your income is it's a percentage of
49:03interesting find very very interesting I
49:06think it's also very cultural culture
49:08specific uh the the concept of because
49:12like in Israel it's it's very cheap uh
49:16higher education and also in in Germany
49:21live um and like people don't have loans
49:24here uh for for for schooling and stuff
49:27like that and well in generally you know
49:29it's a it's a very like a very academic
49:35Society um but I but I think when it
49:39to um evolving markets and evolving
49:43where there's like and but I think also
49:45here there's a massive skill Gap right
49:48uh you can learn everything in
49:50University and you actually see
49:51academics sometimes fail to get a job
49:55and I think we're going to see it more
49:57and more um in the workspace in the
50:01workforce where people that go to
50:03Academia eventually don't have anything
50:05to do with with what they with like the
50:08degree that they studied
50:10so U but I think the whole concept of uh
50:14of isas and the um goal oriented uh kind
50:21models is interesting I know that
50:23there's also a lot of backlash against
50:25it and a lot of a lot of conversations
50:27around the whole topic so I feel like
50:29they can we can have a session
50:31specifically about that and there's a
50:34lot of fellows who are doing outcome
50:37based uh yeah I know models too and can
50:41share a lot about the uh the main
50:44challenges around kind of um burn rates
50:47while you're getting your money back uh
50:49long it sounds interesting to me also
50:52like I feel like can this be converted
50:54to smaller courses and smaller
50:56experiences and and how could you even
51:00return um in in less like uh classical
51:06models like you know an MBA or a
51:10education uh if it's something that's
51:13convertible um I spoke to labor
51:16laboratory I always feel like I can't
51:18say it and they tried in Isa and said
51:21that their students eventually asked
51:26because they didn't like that different
51:29students were paying different amounts
51:31and they were like but we all got the
51:33same education so why am I paying more
51:35than her just because of my job that's
51:38not fair and I thought that that was
51:41really fascinating and I hadn't heard of
51:43that anywhere else and so they just take
51:45like the same Chunk from everyone it's
51:48also interesting like on one hand it
51:49gives like more pressure on the on the
51:53like the the school to bring a good
52:00Christine and but but on the other hand
52:03it's like does it only is the goal only
52:07dependent on the level of Education that
52:10you get or is it about you and your own
52:13personality your connections your
52:15network your there's such a there's so
52:18many different uh elements that go into
52:21getting a job but not just like what you
52:25know what boot camp did you go
52:27to yeah yeah I understand
52:31that on the other hand it's a great
52:34solution then if you're because like in
52:36the US if you take a a
52:38loan you pay back no matter what the
52:43same amount it doesn't matter if you if
52:45you studied computer science or
52:48philosophy or like if you end up working
52:50for Starbucks or if you end up working
52:52in Silicon Valley you end up paying the
52:54same payments to to get back your loans
52:57so it's also not the best
53:00model so yeah I really I don't know it's
53:03like student financing is really
53:05interesting to me um especially at the
53:09moment South Africa having like our
53:11second bout of student financing
53:13protests in like years with and they've
53:17got like escalated really fast and like
53:20no one is talking about stuff like isas
53:22here which I think yeah no but here I
53:24think like if if if someone talks about
53:27it I think like all the social focused
53:30people will be like are you this is the
53:32country's uh this is the
53:34state's uh you know role to invest in
53:39education and people shouldn't be the
53:42ones that uh take control over their own
53:46like they they need to put so many
53:47finances into their own education but
53:50here there's also of course uh it's not
53:53as as clear it is and of course there is
53:56a lot of it it really depends which
53:58family you come from and how much money
53:59you have where you end up right like
54:02what what network do you have and what
54:05this the color of your skin Etc
54:07so anyway Germany actually like they've
54:11been doing U isas for a long time with
54:14vocational training um
54:17just and and it's but it's actually the
54:21unions it's often the unions that that
54:23run that training um and I actually I
54:26mean I think there's there's no issue if
54:28if you can actually guarantee employment
54:31um and then you just like take money off
54:33of that and I think it it makes sense
54:35right what I just don't thinkal training
54:38actually Germany so yeah it's and it's
54:41great I think it's a great model and
54:44uh guys I I need to run uh but this was
54:48fun tell let's talk about creating an
54:50accountability group I know that
54:52Christin is also raising
