00:05Shantanu, it's such a pleasure to
00:06have you here with us.
00:07Welcome to Stanford.
00:08>> Thanks for having me.
00:09>> It's good to see so many folks.
00:13Since we all know Adobe to be
00:15a leader in digital experiences and
00:18We thought it was appropriate to
00:21start with a few images from your
00:23own digital footprint.
00:24>> As long as Photoshop
00:26was used in the creation or
00:28editing of that, I'm okay.
00:30>> So at first, I found pictures
00:32that one might expect,
00:33ones of you meeting with other tech
00:36leaders like Satya Nadella.
00:38Appearances on CNBC,
00:39meeting with world leaders like
00:42Prime Minister Modi and Tony Blair.
00:45But then I looked further.
00:47>> [LAUGH] >> I also
00:50found you on stage with Foggy from
00:53the Black Eyed Peas.
00:55Hosting Billie Eilish at Adobe.
00:59Launching a collaboration with
01:02My question to you Shantanu is,
01:04as you were building a career in
01:06tech, was there any part of you
01:08that secretly wanted to become
01:11>> [LAUGH] >> Actually,
01:14that's one that I can honestly say
01:17And true story, which,
01:19this is Chatham House Rules, right?
01:22And I know it's going to be on
01:23YouTube, but you will never repeat
01:26When Ann Lunas who is a CMO came
01:29and told me that Billie Eilish was
01:32going to be at Max, and we were
01:34going to be having Billie Eilish,
01:40I've never heard him.
01:41And so that's how ignorant I am of
01:44some of these new age musicians.
01:48But no, I mean I had no desire,
01:50no bathroom singing.
01:52>> [LAUGH] >> The only thing I
01:54wanted to be was a professional
01:55golfer or an athlete, so that was
01:57very much part of it, but that
01:59didn't transpire either, Shantanu.
02:01>> [LAUGH] Well, in case you ever
02:03change your mind, we took
02:04the liberty of using your very own
02:06Adobe Photoshop to visualize what
02:08that might look like.
02:10>> Okay. >> And here it is.
02:11>> [LAUGH] [APPLAUSE] >> If you
02:18could give me a little more hair,
02:20maybe that would be more in line
02:22with the rock stars of the old.
02:24well we can come back to the career
02:26that you did choose and
02:28you had a fascinating journey.
02:30I'd love to start at the very
02:32in Hyderabad in Southern India.
02:35American literature.
02:37Your dad ran a business in
02:38industrial plastics.
02:39Tell us about the Narayen household
02:42and what were you interested in?
02:44>> It was a very happy childhood.
02:46As you said, my father actually
02:49went to school in Urbana.
02:52>> He studied electrical
02:54engineering here and then he went
02:56back to get married to my mother.
02:59Education was always
03:00something that was considered
03:02critical in the Narayen household.
03:04I have one elder brother,
03:06he's also in the Bay Area,
03:08works for a chip company here.
03:10And I went to this incredible
03:12school that we were talking about
03:14a little bit backstage,
03:16where you could pursue anything
03:18from academics to extracurricular
03:22And so I was the captain
03:25I participated in plays,
03:26I edited the schools magazine.
03:28Anything but academics was
03:30sort of what I used to focus on.
03:33And it was a great city to grow up.
03:37And my mother was as you said,
03:39a professor of American literature.
03:42So, I wanted to be a journalist
03:44actually growing up, and
03:46I've said that a lot.
03:47But in India, the general wisdom or
03:49conventional wisdom at that point
03:51was that you either grew
03:53up to be an engineer or
03:54you grew up to be a medical doctor.
03:56And those were considered the two
03:58professions that most people
04:01I hated the sight of blood.
04:03So I guess engineering was
04:05the lesser of the two evils.
04:08>> You were interested
04:10you mentioned engineering.
04:11At one point you were also on
04:13India's national sailing team.
04:15As you were exploring these
04:19did that have any impact
04:21on your future aspirations?
04:23the sailing was a fun thing.
04:26I mean, I grew up as you said,
04:27in a city called Hyderabad.
04:29And Hyderabad has this lake,
04:31Hyderabad actually now become
04:33one of the larger software
04:36I think Google, Microsoft,
04:38Facebook, all have big centers, but
04:40it was this really small town.
04:42And sailing was again one way to
04:46I mean, anything to not hit
04:48the books was sort of the theme
04:51growing up, honestly.
04:53But I think just doing these
04:55different things in many ways,
04:57it teaches you what you like to do.
05:00And I think what's an equally
05:01important lesson, it teaches you
05:03what you don't like doing.
05:05And I always tell that for people,
05:07because I think career choices or
05:09choices of what you do.
05:12that's the beautiful thing about
05:14undergrad education in the US.
05:17In India, when you do undergrad
05:19education, I think four years of
05:20engineering, I had one elective
05:22that I was allowed to take.
05:23I think in my fourth year,
05:26something like that.
05:27But just getting exposed to all
05:30think just teaches you to adapt and
05:32maybe think about different areas.
05:36>> You eventually did
05:37You did your master's here in the
05:39US and then came to Silicon Valley.
05:42You started off at an early stage
05:44startup and then a much larger
05:47What lessons stuck with you across
05:49these two very different
05:53the entrepreneurial genes have
05:54always been a big part of who I am.
05:56And so as you pointed out, my first
05:58company was a company called
05:59Measure X Automation Systems.
06:01And this was in the mid 80s.
06:05And what they were trying to do was
06:07due for the process control
06:08industry and the discrete control
06:11industry, how software could
06:13be used in that particular case.
06:15And it was a fabulous experience,
06:17in terms of being at a startup
06:20you get all this opportunity to do
06:23And then as you pointed out,
06:26which was significantly different
06:28than Silicon Graphics.
06:29Where they were much larger
06:31And I think in the much larger
06:33companies I learned a lot about
06:35how you plan for the upside and
06:37maybe react to the downside.
06:39And in a small company you just,
06:41I think realize this aspect of
06:43never taking no for an answer.
06:45And i think that's something that
06:48hopefully instilled wholemark of
06:50how I like to manage,
06:51which is in small companies you
06:53have to overcome every single
06:55adversity that exists.
06:57be one of the things
06:58that I'm very passionate about.
06:59How do you create in a company like
07:02Adobe this notion that anything's
07:05Because we artificially limit our
07:10And so it was actually both of
07:12those were great experiences.
07:13Financially, Measure X Automation
07:15Systems was not as successful.
07:17But I think also what makes
07:19the Valley such an amazing place is
07:21nobody cares where you went as long
07:23as you get good experience.
07:25And I think that was the other
07:26learning, which is early in your
07:28career, get a whole bunch of
07:30diverse experiences.
07:32And I think that's what makes
07:33the Valley such a special place.
07:35Nobody cares whether you
07:37quote successful in that company.
07:39It's all a question of
07:41how do you get more tools.
07:43>> And after Apple and
07:44Silicon Graphics, you tapped into
07:45your entrepreneurial genes.
07:47You started your own company,
07:49Pictra, in the photo sharing space.
07:51And the company also faced some
07:53challenges over the next couple
07:56As you look back on that
07:57experience, how do you think about
07:59responding to setbacks?
08:02Well, it was the best thing that
08:03I mean, Pictra was this company.
08:05In the early 90s, the movement from
08:07analog photography to digital
08:09photography was just happening.
08:11And so we said to ourselves, hey,
08:13maybe people will want to share
08:15images and share videos.
08:16New concept, correct?
08:18But we were way ahead of our time,
08:20so to speak, because
08:22the business model wasn't there.
08:25And we sold the technology to Fuji
08:27and Kodak were the two large
08:29companies that we partnered with.
08:32But I really don't look at it as
08:37I mean, I look at it as it was
08:38incredible experience.
08:39We raised a lot of money.
08:41At one point, my co-founder,
08:45I told them, listen, I don't think
08:46there's a business model and
08:47we should return the money.
08:48And he wanted to keep going and so
08:50at that point, nobody was actually
08:52potentially looking to buy Pictura.
08:55They decided against it.
08:57And I'm like great, Photoshop has
08:59this incredible brand.
09:01Let me go work at a much
09:03And so it was actually for me an on
09:05ramp into a much larger company.
09:09I went to Adobe thinking, okay,
09:10I'll be there for 18 months and
09:12then I'll go off and
09:13start my other company again.
09:15And 25 years later nobody's given
09:18So I'm still at Adobe [LAUGH].
09:19>> Fair enough, and at Adobe
09:21you led different divisions from
09:23product and engineering,
09:25as you are getting more and more
09:27responsibility was there a moment
09:30when you knew you wanted to be CEO?
09:34>> The answer is no.
09:35A lot of people asked this question
09:38about, how structured were you in
09:42terms of ambition and
09:44first as you point out,
09:46I joined Adobe in January 98.
09:50the company hit a wall.
09:52And Japan at that point, we had
09:54some serious issues in Japan.
09:56So the revenue dropped
09:58And as a result, they had to
10:00lay off 25% of the company.
10:03This was in August, I think,
10:08And John Warnock, the co-founder,
10:09and Chuck Gieschke were
10:10running the company.
10:12And on one day, they actually let
10:14the CFO, the head of products, and
10:16the head of marketing go,
10:18because they felt like the company
10:20was not as functionally,
10:21they weren't executing as much as
10:23they did, which is a massive move.
10:25I mean, think about it, right?
10:28they asked my predecessor,
10:31To run a lot of the products.
10:33He wanted to reorganize.
10:35I was a general manager at
10:37that point, and Bruce wanted to
10:39make it completely functional,
10:41which was the right thing
10:42because we were trying to
10:44break down all the fiefdoms and
10:46get people to do stuff.
10:49And so he asked me whether I'd
10:50be one of the engineering leaders,
10:52an engineering background.
10:54First, I thought I was the new
10:56kid in the block, so
10:58I'd probably let go of.
11:00Luckily, that didn't happen.
11:01And when he asked me to run
11:03engineering for this one group,
11:05InDesign was a product at that
11:07point, Quark was the market leader
11:09in desktop publishing.
11:11And he said, this is a really
11:12important initiative.
11:13Can you take that on?
11:14And I said yes, because I think way
11:17too many times people think about,
11:20is that good for my career?
11:24that was an important initiative
11:25that the company wanted to do.
11:27And I said, if I do that well,
11:28things will hopefully work out.
11:31And so, I learned that very early
11:33on, which is people like to do what
11:35they think they're good at,
11:37perhaps not as much of where either
11:39the impact is required for
11:40the company or what a priority is.
11:42And I learned that very,
11:45And so, I've said, great,
11:46I'll take initiative.
11:47And then, that was luckily
11:49a successful project, and
11:51from there we did other projects,
11:53and then six months later, actually
11:55Bruce told me, do you want to run?
11:57I still remember this, this was
11:59just before December of that year,
12:01and he had five engineering people,
12:04and he had five marketing folks
12:09he had reorganized it.
12:10And he was clearly more on
12:11the sales and marketing side.
12:13So in December, he came to me and
12:15he said, I can manage five
12:17And I thought he was in effect
12:20telling me that I'm going to
12:21consolidate all engineering under
12:23one of the other four leaders
12:25because the other four leaders put
12:27their probably a combined 75 years.
12:30And he said, would you like to run
12:32all engineering for Adobe?
12:34let me think about it, yes.
12:36>> [LAUGH] >> So things work out
12:38and you just take the initiative.
12:42But I always wanted,
12:44I'm always fascinated by
12:45the business of technology.
12:47And so I said I'll do that, but
12:49over time, I'd like to run more
12:52and conceive of products, and
12:53create products, and he said sure.
12:55And so I think taking
12:56the initiative always helped me get
12:58more responsibility.
13:00And yes, at some point, it became
13:02clear that hopefully I was being
13:05considered or groomed for CEO.
13:07But there are also things that
13:10We bought Macromedia,
13:11then it wasn't clear because
13:13perhaps the Macromedia CEO at that
13:15point also wanted to do it, but
13:17I've always gone with the flow.
13:20And even when I did my MBA,
13:22I went to the other school.
13:25But when I did my MBA,
13:26most people told me that, hey,
13:27now that you've got an MBA, you've
13:29gotta stop doing engineering.
13:31And you've got to become product
13:33management, because product
13:35management and product marketing is
13:37the track to becoming a CEO.
13:38And I'm like, screw this,
13:41And I'm going to keep engineering.
13:42So it's worked out for me.
13:44In terms of doing what I want to
13:46do and what I have passion for.
13:48>> That's fascinating.
13:49And as a result of your
13:50initiative you were able to have
13:51disproportionate impact much before
13:54you were actually named CEO.
13:56That also draws a connection to
13:58something else you've talked
14:00which is influence leadership.
14:02Give us a sense of what that means
14:04and why is it important to you?
14:08>> Well, again, the first role that
14:10I had at Adobe was what's called
14:12the Engineering Technology Group.
14:14>> And we had divisions, and
14:16divisions ran different parts of
14:19And we had this fundamental belief
14:21at Adobe that if you have a great
14:23technology platform that underlies
14:25all of your products,
14:27if color works the same, and
14:28the user experience is the same,
14:30and printing is the same,
14:32then we can deliver more value to
14:35By saying if you learn how to use
14:37one product, you can learn all
14:38these other products.
14:40But then to your point, it could be
14:43perceived as you had zero direct
14:45responsibility for a product and
14:48most people like P&L, right?
14:50And I always tell people at Adobe,
14:53there's one P&L, you know,
14:55get over, and I run that P&L, or
14:57the CFO runs the P&L, but
14:59That was for me the fact that I
15:01could influence as many products.
15:04And I could be a client of as many
15:06products actually gave me this
15:07bird's eye view for how every
15:09product in the company worked.
15:12And I think people obsess too much
15:14about who's in my direct line of
15:21I'm, if you're liberate
15:23you feel okay through influence,
15:25I'm impacting Photoshop and Acrobat
15:27and all these other products.
15:28It's actually a very
15:32me the influence leadership is,
15:35if you can convince somebody who
15:37doesn't work for you,
15:38that they're part of your extended
15:40team and conversely, if you can get
15:43gratification as a leader from
15:44what others do, whether or not they
15:47work for you, that's actually one
15:49of the most empowering things.
15:52People like to talk about,
15:54And if that team becomes larger and
15:56larger, then It's more happiness.
15:59And so I think that influence
16:01leadership, and I encourage
16:02that a lot among my team right now.
16:04And I don't like people saying,
16:06when I interview somebody for
16:08a new job and people typically come
16:10in and I say, what do you think
16:13It's always an open ended question.
16:15And some people will say,
16:17well, I think I'm responsible for
16:19this and I have 80 people and
16:20this is my P and L and
16:23And if they come in and say,
16:24I think my job is to create new
16:26products, or serve this customer
16:28segment, or innovate in this area.
16:30I'm like, okay, tell me more.
16:32So, I think influence leadership
16:34for me is worked out and so
16:36I think it's liberating and
16:39I think it's empowering.
16:40>> In your first year as CEO,
16:42Adobe had record revenues,
16:44extremely strong customer growth
16:47and customer retention, and then
16:50you run into the recession in 2008.
16:53Give us a peek into your mind
16:55How do you navigate this
16:58>> Well, in retrospect, it's great.
17:00I mean, in retrospect, it's great.
17:03terrible because, as you said,
17:07Luckily, I'd grown from within
17:09And so I think I had a really good
17:11sense of the business.
17:13I had a good sense of the products.
17:15But when you get record revenues
17:17your first year, you're like,
17:19my God, this is so easy,
17:21And then when the recession hit,
17:24because at that point Adobe was
17:26a discretionary purchase, right?
17:29I mean, if you bought a previous
17:31version of the product,
17:32you could choose whether or not to
17:34buy a new version of the product.
17:36And so there were things about our
17:38business model that were
17:40fundamentally, now in retrospect it
17:42seems so archaic, but
17:44opposed to the ability to innovate.
17:46But again, the glass half full of
17:48that was, if that recession hadn't
17:50happened, we wouldn't have said we
17:52need a fundamental change in our
17:54We wouldn't have been the first
17:56company to really transition, which
17:58from the desktop to the cloud.
18:00So at that time it was hard, but
18:03many silver linings from that.
18:06role you have to be an optimist.
18:08The first silver lining is when
18:10the going gets tough, you really
18:12realize in a company who are the
18:14people you can really trust?
18:16Who are the people who
18:18They're not there just because
18:20things have, that management team,
18:23we were together for 10 years.
18:25And so I think you learn a lot of
18:27things more through adversity
18:31are going really well,
18:32I mean everybody believes it's
18:34because of their efforts.
18:36you think it's because of somebody
18:40In my role there's nobody else that
18:45say it was their issue and so
18:47you look at the mirror and
18:50We can either be paralyzed by
18:51what's happening in the macro
18:53economic environment or
18:54we can look at it and say,
18:55what are the fundamental changes
18:57that we need to make?
18:59A lot of tech companies are now
19:03And I was so impacted by the fact
19:08we had to let people go.
19:10It was a macroeconomic situation,
19:12we are discretionary purchases.
19:13The revenue dropped 25%.
19:15Our revenue dropped 25% and
19:18in a software company most of your
19:20costs, are fixed people costs.
19:23And I resolved to myself, which is
19:25like if I'm not prioritizing things
19:27or if I'm not making the changes
19:30So when the pandemic first came,
19:33prioritise the heck out of.
19:35And shame on us if we find
19:36ourselves where we're over invested
19:39So again, along window answer to
19:42say, you learn things and
19:44maybe this is the Asian part of my
19:46culture and growing up,
19:48you take the long view things.
19:50I mean, what's the worst thing that
19:52If things go badly in a company,
19:58>> I love that optimism.
20:01>> That I will get fired or
20:03that everything will be fine?
20:04That everything will be fine,
20:08>> You spoke earlier about
20:10an entrepreneurial gene that's
20:12always been within you, regardless
20:14of the size of company that you
20:16are working for or leading.
20:18At Adobe with a 200 plus billion
20:21how do you drive innovation without
20:24running into a bureaucracy?
20:27I don't think we've completely
20:30I don't think we've completely
20:32a couple of lessons come to mind.
20:34when you look at Sand Hill Road,
20:38So much has been created by
20:39Sand Hill Road, and there's so
20:41much to learn from Sand Hill Road.
20:42And I think the first lesson is,
20:44you talk to any great investors,
20:47and you can learn so
20:49they invest in people.
20:50So, I think the first thing you do
20:52is, when you're trying to innovate
20:54and you're trying to create
20:57you sort of look at it and say,
20:58do I trust implicitly the person
21:00who is heading up that project.
21:02Because antibodies do come out from
21:04every part of the company, because
21:06all the power in an organization
21:08tends to be in the products, or
21:10in the groups that are making money
21:14I mean, the first thing you have to
21:17all software there's an S curve.
21:19Business have a natural life cycle,
21:21and if you don't invest some people
21:23call it phase one, phase two,
21:24horizon one, whatever you
21:26want to call it, but you have
21:27to have a portfolio of products.
21:29So that's I think something that we
21:31I fundamentally believe in.
21:32For the earliest stage products,
21:34you need to provide sponsorship.
21:36So that's a big part of what I do,
21:38which is going back to that people.
21:39Is it somebody that I trust because
21:41even by assigning somebody that you
21:43trust, you're sending a message to
21:47that that's important.
21:48Different cultures you can say,
21:50let a thousand flowers bloom and
21:52let the best idea win,
21:54or you could say, no,
21:55I want a few top down.
21:56I believe in the few top down.
21:58So I said these are three or
22:00four areas that we're invested in,
22:01so let's innovate in those areas.
22:03And so at least we have
22:05a philosophy and we have a point of
22:07view on what we want to do.
22:09If you take the Sandhill Road
22:11approach a little bit about saying,
22:13let's give them a little money.
22:16I think one of the pitfalls could
22:18be we have annual planning cycles.
22:21So you tend to incubate these
22:23products only at annual cycles and
22:25what Sandhill does is,
22:26if there's anybody who ever comes
22:28up with a good idea,
22:29they'll find money, right?
22:31I mean, that old adage of in
22:33a large company if there are ten
22:35people who are decision makers, you
22:37have to get all of them to say yes,
22:39and none of them to say no.
22:41Whereas on Sandhill, you can
22:43get one person to say yes, and
22:44who cares if the other nine say no?
22:47So we're trying to replicate
22:48some of those things.
22:50And I want somebody on my staff to
22:52be passionate about each of
22:53the new incubation projects.
22:55And if somebody is passionate about
22:57it, then they'll drive it.
22:59And if there isn't, then it's okay.
23:03I think realization that you come
23:06up with after awhile is,
23:07it's okay if a company like Adobe,
23:10you don't have to create everything
23:14You can buy products,
23:17Early on in my career, I would say
23:19when we acquired something
23:20that people looked at and said,
23:22hey, why didn't Adobe created it?
23:25And now you're like, it's okay.
23:27I mean, you have the capital,
23:29you have the brand, go acquire it,
23:30because great ideas come from
23:32And so I think those are a couple
23:34of ways in which we incubate and
23:36then maybe when we buy a company we
23:37leave it isolated for
23:39Because, way too often I think
23:42let's acquire something.
23:44Okay, now we've got it, but
23:46you bought that company because
23:47you didn't have it, right?
23:49And so I think how you manage
23:50the company and that leadership is,
23:52those are a few of the lessons I've
23:55But we're always trying, it's hard.
23:58interesting to hear the whole suite
24:00of approaches that you would take
24:01to drive that innovation.
24:03So over the 15 years that
24:06Adobe revenues have increased 7x.
24:08You've navigated recessions,
24:10geopolitical, turmoil, regulatory.
24:12>> Are you saying I'm old
24:13in the truth or something here?
24:16you're very experienced.
24:17[LAUGH] >> [LAUGH] >> As you look
24:22back over your tenure, how have you
24:24personally changed as a leader?
24:27>> I've changed a lot, I think when
24:29you grow from within the company,
24:32I think the first, and I've talked
24:34about this a fair amount.
24:36But when you grew up first,
24:39I was an engineer by background,
24:42I sort of knew everything.
24:45And since my previous role
24:46was the Chief Operating Officer,
24:49in many ways, my role was keeping
24:52And when we move to the cloud and
24:55the subscription model, you sort of
24:58realize that the job of a CEO, it's
25:01both doing the flag planting, as we
25:03call it, and the road building.
25:07a better road builder in those days
25:10than maybe a flag planter.
25:11Because I sort of had
25:13this engineering mind,
25:14I was trying to connect the dots.
25:16And you realize when you're talking
25:18to a group like this and
25:19you want to make a big change.
25:21There are half the people in
25:23the room who probably tune you out.
25:25If you talk about just the road
25:27building because they
25:29hill you want them to go conquer.
25:31And conversely, there are probably
25:33half the room tunes you out when
25:35you all talk about, hey, I want to
25:37go win a World Series and they're
25:39like, but what about next game?
25:41And what are we going to do?
25:43And how do I participate in that?
25:45And so I think that's been one of
25:47the big changes that I've made,
25:49which is the people amaze you,
25:51amaze you with their ingenuity.
25:53And I think part of our roles is
25:55creating unreasonable expectations,
25:58and I try and do that all the time.
26:00Which is if you can create what you
26:02consider unreasonable expectations,
26:04people amaze you with
26:06So I would say that's one big area
26:09where I've sort of changed what
26:13I think the second big area,
26:16everybody tells you this, but
26:18your focus on people and the time
26:20that you spend on your leaders.
26:22You spend more and more and more of
26:25your time on leaders and hopefully
26:28coaching, that's a big change.
26:30From where you would do execution
26:32reviews to where you spend time
26:34with people and hopefully both get
26:36inspired by them and inspire them.
26:38So I think that's a big
26:40change that's happened.
26:42I think the third thing is things
26:44where I look at it and I say,
26:48And if I don't like it,
26:50how do I find somebody else
26:51who's more passionate about that
26:54John Warnock again, I've learned so
26:56much from the two founders of
26:59And John said something to me
27:00the day I took over a CEO,
27:03if you don't like your job sounds
27:05familiar one person to blame.
27:07I said, is that you John?
27:10when you take that on,
27:12I have this incredible opportunity
27:15to do what I want, right?
27:18And so I focus on the things that I
27:21And previously I would be like,
27:23okay, I gotta do a little IR and
27:24I've gotta do a little PR and
27:26I've gotta do product and
27:28I'm like, yeah, I'm going to focus
27:30on where I want to have impact.
27:32And I'm feeling far more
27:34comfortable about that,
27:35which is where do I want to spend
27:37my time because it's my
27:39most precious commodity.
27:41And last but not least, I'm way
27:43more comfortable than I was 15
27:45years, in knowing that I'm going to
27:48be wrong a lot of the time.
27:50Hopefully I'm not doing the same
27:52thing wrong over and over again.
27:54But it's very rare in these senior
27:55roles, not just CEO,
27:57that people come to you.
27:58I mean, I can't remember the last
28:00time my team came to me and
28:02said all ten of us are unbelievably
28:04aligned on this, we all want to do
28:07this, what do you think?
28:09They typically come in, it's like
28:11what five want to do this, four
28:13want to do this one is undecided,
28:15make a call Shantanu, right?
28:17And so I think that dealing with
28:19ambiguity and uncertainty and being
28:21just completely comfortable that,
28:23yeah, I'm going to fail a whole
28:24bunch of times and I'm going to get
28:26it wrong, but I can change it.
28:28I think that's the part that I'm
28:31comfortable with that.
28:32And so part of the journey.
28:35>> That's fascinating to hear,
28:37you mentioned planting the flag and
28:40In your seat, you have a very
28:42unique vantage point into the
28:43future of technology, the creator
28:45economy, digital experiences.
28:47What gets you excited about
28:52I think the most recent thing I
28:53would talk about is, and clearly
28:55it's the buzz is what we've done.
28:57If you haven't heard, we introduced
28:59this product called Firefly.
29:01Recently it's our generative AI.
29:04And I mean, at the end of the day,
29:07if you think about Adobe's purpose
29:09and what we are focused on,
29:11we believe in this notion of
29:14Everybody has a story to tell.
29:16And if we can help them tell that
29:19story, on any medium using any
29:21device, then we're serving a larger
29:24and larger set of community.
29:27And right now, I think thinking
29:29about the role of how we can
29:31use artificial intelligence to
29:33make our products more accessible,
29:35more productive, more fun,
29:37I think we're just at the very,
29:39very early stages of it.
29:41I think we took a very unique
29:43approach because we said we're only
29:45going to license our models based
29:47on the data that we have.
29:49We're only going to train it based
29:51on the data that we have
29:54And I think that's one in which,
29:56if we can get billions of people to
29:59I'm really excited about that.
30:01I love the word impact, and
30:02if we can have impact through that,
30:04that's one exciting thing.
30:06And there's the other part
30:07of Adobe's business,
30:08which is all about any digital
30:10experience that you have,
30:12engaging with any enterprise.
30:13Hopefully there's a piece of Adobe
30:15software that's used in
30:17the creation of that, whether it's
30:19the website, the email campaign,
30:21the analytics associated with it.
30:23And the reality is when everybody
30:25talks about digital transformation,
30:27they're talking about engaging with
30:30a customer digitally and
30:31getting that personalized
30:33experience that they expect.
30:35And so from the Adobe perspective,
30:37those are the two things that I'm
30:39most, most fascinated about.
30:41On the personal side,
30:42I'm on the board of Pfizer.
30:43And I think if I was starting my
30:46career right now, I think
30:48the confluence of technology and
30:50medicine and the ability to really
30:53get these incredible new therapies
30:56to market, that's one that
30:58I'm particularly fascinated.
31:01>> I've got one final
31:02we turn it over to the audience.
31:05you've led large companies,
31:07you've led startups,
31:09you've served on boards,
31:10you've invested in sports teams,
31:12you've basically done it all.
31:14As you look out into this room of
31:16many soon to be graduates,
31:17what's one piece of advice
31:19you'd like to leave us with?
31:24>> Well, I was saying this earlier,
31:26which is the world's your oyster.
31:28It's just, think of where you are,
31:31you're at Stanford University in
31:35And if you have a great idea,
31:37it's just, the world's really your
31:40oyster and trust your instinct.
31:43I mean, again, the thing, when
31:44people ask me for advice, I say I'm
31:46not very good at giving advice.
31:48And be careful about asking for
31:50advice, because you're getting
31:52what you're paying for it.
31:54But the thing that I would say is
31:57What we can be are sounding boards.
31:59And when people say,
32:00do you think I should do this or
32:02be true to yourself.
32:03I mean, I've always said people do
32:05their best work when they resonate
32:07with the mission of the company.
32:09So we always talk about changing
32:11the world through digital
32:12experiences and when you resonate
32:14with the values of the company.
32:16And that's not value judgment on
32:18different values, different
32:20companies have different values.
32:22But if you can do that, if you can
32:24wake up every morning and
32:26I resonate with the vision and
32:28the values speak to me as a human,
32:30you'll do your best work.
32:32Otherwise, it's a job,
32:33then it becomes a nine to five.
32:34So do something that gets
32:36you excited about waking up in
32:39>> With that advice and
32:40with you as a sounding board,
32:41we'll turn it over to the audience.
32:44>> Please raise your hands,
32:45mics will be passed to you, and
32:46you can ask a question.
32:48I'm a second-year MBA,
32:50thank you for being here.
32:53you have the unique perspective of
32:55establishing partnerships
32:57across the tech industry.
33:00And one such extreme that happened
33:03the controversial public
33:04disagreement with Apple over
33:06the use of Adobe Flash.
33:08But on the other hand, you have
33:10also led very successful open data
33:11collaboration with companies such
33:13as Microsoft and SAP.
33:16So my question here is what do you
33:18think causes some partnerships in
33:23And how might us as future leaders
33:25here go about in thinking,
33:27building that right toolset, and
33:29establishing the right power of
33:31partnerships in what seems to be
33:33a very highly competitive tech
33:38>> It's a good question,
33:39a couple of thoughts come to mind.
33:40I mean, the first is first go back
33:43to this assertion that I have,
33:45where some will work and some won't
33:48work, so be comfortable with it.
33:51It's worse not trying partnerships
33:52than it is trying partnerships, and
33:54Apple's a very good partner.
33:57while we may have had in the past
34:00sort of questions about Flash and
34:02whether or not it should be
34:04supported, I mean, the macOS and
34:07iOS are where we deliver most of
34:09our flagship products.
34:11And so the first thing I would say
34:14is you've got to try them because
34:16the ecosystem and the ability to
34:18step on the shoulders of other
34:21giants, it's a good thing.
34:24The advice that I would give is
34:25think about is the business model
34:27fundamentally where they can make
34:29money and you can make money over
34:31time and you're serving customers?
34:34because those are the partnerships
34:36that tend to stand the test of
34:39releases are cheap, right?
34:41I mean, with any event,
34:42everybody's trying to do a press
34:44release about how the two companies
34:45are going to get together and
34:47transform the world.
34:48But at the end of the day, if
34:49there's a good economic incentive,
34:52right, where the joint customers or
34:54customers of both of you make
34:56money, I'll give you example.
34:57You pointed out Microsoft,
35:00we were one of the first companies
35:02that sort of partnered with
35:05before Azure became this incredible
35:08giant that it has become.
35:09And we were like, hey,
35:11we need multiple cloud providers.
35:14We were on AWS as well, Amazon,
35:17so we needed Microsoft.
35:19And they said they would get their
35:21entire field organization to
35:24So we were validating it, and so
35:26there was a good economic argument.
35:28We were helping them with making
35:30sure that Azure met our needs, and
35:32so when there's a good business
35:34It's the same with Google or Apple
35:37for us on their devices when Apple
35:39comes out with a brand new macOS.
35:41If we can take advantage of those
35:43incredible features that they have,
35:45then we're serving our customers
35:47well who are on Mac.
35:48And they make money and
35:49So I think really putting yourself
35:52in the shoes way too many times,
35:54the mistakes we made is when we
35:57think, wow, this is so good for us.
35:59But we don't take the trouble to
36:01understand is it equally good for
36:04And if that's not the case,
36:05then it's going to die on the vine,
36:07because the other company is
36:08going to start off with good
36:10it's not going to go anywhere.
36:12So I think I would say take
36:13that time to understand
36:14the economic incentives.
36:17at the end of the day,
36:18we have less time than we think,
36:20and we're going to do the things
36:22that are going to yield the best
36:24results, so that's what I would do.
36:30>> I work in strategic
36:31partnerships, and I had a question
36:33which you just answered,
36:35so- >> See, that's my AI at work.
36:37>> [LAUGH] >> I'm kidding.
36:39>> So my question was really next
36:43Adobe has been a great company who
36:45led the world in enterprise,
36:47transforming to the cloud.
36:50So now we are on the next phase of
36:52disruption generative AI, and it
36:55impacts greatly on Adobe products.
36:58So what's your vision to transform,
37:01disrupt the next phase of art
37:03making and creating art for
37:05the companies and for people?
37:09I first have this fundamental
37:12belief, at least in my professional
37:15lifetime, generative AI in
37:17the creative and in the art space
37:20is going to augment human ingenuity
37:25Jenson is a good friend,
37:27I had breakfast with him recently.
37:30And it's one of those great
37:32pleasures that I have, privileges,
37:35that you can spend hours with
37:37somebody that you respect and talk
37:40about where you see tech going.
37:42And we were talking both about
37:44these models, whether it's
37:46autonomous cars or generative AI,
37:48that at the end of the day,
37:49the companies that are going to win
37:51are those who recognize that
37:53there's a complete workflow
37:55associated with it and
37:57Because this notion that I'm
37:59going to come up with an idea and
38:01just describe it completely and
38:03get the final output,
38:04that's going to be a minuscule
38:06percentage of what people do.
38:09And so if we can think about, okay,
38:11you're going to augment human
38:12ingenuity, how do you make it?
38:14And the notion of copilot that
38:16everybody talks about,
38:17I believe that as well,
38:18which is we have the footprint with
38:20all of our applications,
38:21how can we help people with that?
38:23And so we've sort of approached
38:25generative AI as, again, if you
38:27have this vision of creativity for
38:30all, if you believe there
38:31are billions of people.
38:33The biggest thing that most people
38:35fear is the fear of a blank page.
38:39you want to create something.
38:42I recently became a grandfather,
38:43and so when I became a grandfather,
38:45I was like, okay, I gotta do this,
38:47announcing my grandson, and
38:50And people have higher
38:52If I'm working at Adobe,
38:53that- >> [LAUGH] >> Piece of
38:55content has to be great.
38:56>> [LAUGH] >> So you use it as
38:58an on-ramp to start doing it.
39:00So we're really looking at it first
39:02from how can we design this to be
39:07I think that's a big issue.
39:09And then how can I also use that as
39:11Which is, if we've designed it
39:13using Adobe software,
39:15if I go into a company like Disney,
39:17how can Disney create a model
39:19that's only specific to Disney,
39:21where it's their content and
39:23the Adobe license content but
39:25only available to Disney?
39:26So that's a business opportunity.
39:28For the consumer, it's a business
39:30opportunity because it enables them
39:32to be more productive and creative.
39:33For the person who wants to create
39:35art, maybe they now are able to
39:36generate more art and
39:37make that a business, right?
39:39I mean, Adobe is also in
39:40the Adobe Stock business, so
39:42I think the advantages are so much.
39:44And then last, the big area that
39:46we're focused on is what we're
39:48calling this content authenticity.
39:52we now have 900 companies.
39:54It's all about the provenance of
39:55content and how do you understand.
39:58When somebody creates that content,
40:00how can you actually monetize it
40:02So I think with all technologies,
40:05one of the things we talk about
40:08we have three things.
40:09We talk about Adobe for all,
40:11creativity for all, and
40:12technology to transform.
40:14And you realize that technology has
40:16this incredible power, but
40:18there are potential users of that
40:22are potentially harmful.
40:24And that's a responsibility that a
40:26company like Adobe has to just take
40:28and say, let's understand that.
40:30We can't have our head in the sand
40:33it's not going to happen and ignore
40:34it because then somebody else is
40:36going to experiment with it.
40:38So I'm a big believer that
40:40generative AI will actually bring
40:41more people into creative.
40:43It'll require more differentiation
40:45at the end of the day.
40:46But in a way, how's that different
40:49from, we have this online community
40:52think of it as LinkedIn for
40:54creative professionals.
40:56Tens of millions of people,
40:58they all produce stuff,
40:59people get inspired by that.
41:02And so I think generative AI also
41:03has the ability to be inspired.
41:07going to be disruption,
41:08I'm not in denial of that.
41:10But if you come up with these
41:12assertions, that's again,
41:14one of the ways we run the company
41:16is let's have some core assertions.
41:19And even for a startup idea,
41:21I want the core assertions.
41:22If somebody says, hey,
41:24I need an hour to explain my idea,
41:27And so I think if you have these
41:28core assertions clear.
41:29But I'm very excited, and
41:32I think we're in the early stages
41:35of what that can be.
41:36The generative AI is new AI is not
41:39I mean, if you've used our products
41:41we have features like content aware
41:43fill and things that you look at it
41:45and say, my God, that's magic.
41:47And so, it's just a different kind
41:49of magic, that's my belief.
41:51I'm a second year MBA student here.
41:53Looking back at your life,
41:55what are the ways that you have
41:58found creative inspiration, and
42:00how do they nourish you today?
42:05>> Well, the reality is, you get
42:07creative inspiration from so
42:11me to look at one aspect.
42:13At Adobe, I'm a big believer,
42:16we hire a lot from college.
42:19go spend time with them, right?
42:21I think one of the attribute I hope
42:23that people will say about me is
42:26I'm intellectually very curious.
42:29are intellectually curious,
42:31then you're learning something
42:33in every aspect of what you do.
42:36a lot of it comes from people.
42:37So the inspiration from people is
42:39when you sit with a product team,
42:41and they're talking to you
42:42about the stuff that they've
42:44This morning, before coming in
42:45here, I was like, okay, there's
42:47a product called Adobe Express,
42:48I want to sit with that team, and
42:50I want to really understand
42:52So inspiration comes from them.
42:54I have my self help group,
42:56when I took over a CEO,
42:58that's one other piece of at least
43:02which is find people with whom you
43:04can share what's going on.
43:06These jobs become lonely,
43:08it doesn't matter what the job is.
43:10And, one of your own alum,
43:11John Donahoe, I would say he's one
43:15And John took over a CEO of eBay,
43:17PayPal when I took over a CEO of
43:20Brad Smith took over as CEO
43:22of Intuit at that time.
43:24And so I have this self-help group
43:26where I can go tell them anything
43:28that's on my mind and
43:30there's no BS, and so
43:31that's inspiration, right?
43:33Because you hear about what
43:35But most of all, it's my family.
43:38at the end of the day, that's where
43:41you get incredible inspiration.
43:47I'm an optimist by nature, and
43:49if you look at every one of these,
43:51even if something doesn't go well,
43:53I always go back and look at it and
43:55say, did I learn something?
43:57And if I can learn something
43:59you get inspiration from so many.
44:01And thank God, I mean, again, I
44:03know you didn't ask this question.
44:05I'm a big believer in work at work,
44:09Adobe has never taken attendance,
44:11we'll never take attendance.
44:12We trust people, but
44:13I don't know how you build culture.
44:16I don't know how you grow
44:17somebody's career if they're
44:18completely remote or hybrid.
44:20And so thank God that we're mostly
44:23behind all of this, and
44:25we are back at work.
44:26And I get inspiration from people,
44:29that's what I get inspiration from.
44:32>> I think we might have one more
44:35>> Hi, my name is and
44:37the Graduate School of Engineering.
44:40I also had a question about
44:43the firefly suite of products.
44:45So there's a lot of questions about
44:48the copyright with these algorithms
44:50and who own's it on the input,
44:53Do the artists own it?
44:54On the training data who owns that?
44:56And there's a few lawsuits
44:58also going on with other companies.
45:00>> Yep. >> So as a business leader,
45:02as these products exist out there
45:04in the world right now but
45:06there is also this uncertainty on,
45:08we haven't decided a lot of issues
45:11about the ethics with these
45:13So as Adobe continues to apply
45:17how do you deal with these issues.
45:21think about where I've spent
45:23my time in this area, it's probably
45:2680% of time on the technology and
45:28sitting with the engineers.
45:31Again, that inspiration,
45:33learning all about training model,
45:35an inference model, and sampling,
45:38and an image to text stuffs.
45:40It's been fascinating in
45:42I've also spend as much time really
45:44trying to understand, derivative
45:46work and transformative work, and
45:48the legal implications.
45:51so if you're interested
45:52you can read about AI ethics and
45:54what Adobe thinks about AI ethics
45:56and biases and all of that.
45:59I think successful businesses, you
46:01have to navigate all these aspects.
46:04You have to navigate
46:05Your technology better be good if
46:07you're a product company.
46:10a monetization model,
46:11that's what I learned that Petra
46:12you didn't have a monetization
46:14model at that point and you have to
46:16engage with your community.
46:17But the lessons that I also
46:18learned from the community,
46:20in fact when we move to the cloud,
46:22'll give you that example.
46:24When we move to the cloud, Adobe
46:25was the first company that said
46:26we're going to move to the cloud
46:28boxes, we're not going to do it.
46:29We got ranked as one of the most
46:31green companies in the world
46:33because we stop shipping boxes.
46:35We were the number two company,
46:37the greenest company in the world.
46:39And I'm, we don't even do any
46:40manufacturing, how come we
46:42are the greenness company?
46:43PDF I know is green,
46:45because we help you not kill trees.
46:49But you look at all of that legal
46:52stuff and that community,
46:54the community didn't want us to
46:58The community actually said that
47:00this is a way that Adobe is
47:02They had a petition,
47:03there's this petition.org or
47:06and there was a petition.
47:07I always say there was a petition
47:09to eliminate senior management, and
47:11then I clarify it was a petition to
47:13So, luckily I survived.
47:15But engaging with the community on
47:18that and recognizing that even when
47:20they are people who are opposed to
47:22it, go really deeply
47:24understand what their issues are.
47:27And are their issues fear?
47:29Are their issues well intentioned?
47:31If they're well intentioned,
47:33then you've got to go address it.
47:35If there's issues of fear,
47:36there's not much you can do
47:37about some of that stuff.
47:38So specifically on Firefly first.
47:41Our model is completely trained,
47:43we didn't train it on Behance data.
47:46Even though Behance is
47:47an Adobe site, we did not do that.
47:49we've identified what our model is,
47:51you've got to be transparent with
47:53your customers on that.
47:55You've got to understand where
47:56the lawyer is going to head and
47:58there's some uncertain part of it.
48:00But you have to have your
48:01North Star as a company and
48:03be clear about which lines you're
48:06And if you can do that, and
48:07if you can communicate that to your
48:09customers, things work out.
48:11If you're ambiguous about that,
48:14then I think bad things happen in
48:17And so, our job is to assert where
48:19we are going and then help navigate
48:22it and it's an uncertain time.
48:24But frankly, in the uncertain
48:26times, good companies should
48:28get stronger and that's where
48:30opportunity is right for us.
48:33I think we're coming at it from
48:34the absolutely right intentions.
48:37So I'm confident about what we're
48:40>> Thank you, Shantanu.
48:42I'm from Stanford Lead program.
48:45My question too you is, I'm just
48:47borrowing a concept I read long ago
48:48from a book called The Zen and
48:50Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
48:53>> Robert Persig. >> We all grew up
48:54reading that in India.
48:55>> [LAUGH] So there's this
48:57classical versus romantic
49:00Classical being the engineering,
49:02the number crunching,
49:03the romantic being somebody
49:05who appreciates creativity, art and
49:08You with Adobe are in a unique
49:10situation where you encounter these
49:12two on a day to day basis.
49:14So how do you exert your creative
49:18How do you appreciate
49:21the art part of Adobe?
49:25everybody talks about STEM,
49:27I'm all about STEAM.
49:29the world without arts would be
49:31an incredibly boring place.
49:34And so, it's how I run the company,
49:37you have to get inspired, right?
49:40And whenever we have business
49:42reviews, since this last, whenever
49:44we have business reviews I always
49:46say, give me the narrative and
49:48So actually, I have the best job in
49:50the world where if somebody comes
49:52in and all they are doing is giving
49:54me data after data after data that
49:56you know what you talked about in
49:59Then you lose that essence, so
50:02I use that expression all the time
50:04What's the Zen of what
50:05you're trying to do?
50:06Inspired by that book.
50:10But if people don't have that
50:12narrative of why this is going to
50:13be different, better, etc,
50:15then something's missing.
50:17And so I actually am maybe trying
50:21And so the way I like to manage is,
50:23tell me the zen of what we
50:27at the end of the day how you make
50:28things different, but make sure you
50:30have the right metrics or data.
50:32Because that's what we're all
50:34expected to do, to understand if
50:36you're making progress.
50:37Couse otherwise it's far too easy.
50:39And so I think that book inspired
50:42me to actually try and find a happy
50:45balance between both of them.
50:47>> Before we close Shantanu it's
50:49a view from the top tradition
50:51to end with a rapid fire round.
50:54So I'll ask a series of quick
50:56you can respond with the first
50:57couple of things that come to mind.
51:00>> First one, two words your wife
51:02would use to describe you.
51:04>> [LAUGH] >> Two words,
51:13>> Two words your kids may use to
51:18>> [LAUGH] These are tough I hadn't
51:20heard this, okay >> [LAUGH]
51:26>> Competitive golfer.
51:27>> [LAUGH] >> Two words you would
51:32use to describe yourself.
51:35>> Blessed individual.
51:38>> And last but not least,
51:39two words that Billie Eilish may
51:40use to describe you.
51:44[LAUGH] >> Shantanu,
51:47Thank you so much for
51:48sharing your time and your wisdom.
51:51Thank you. >> [APPLAUSE]
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