00:09back at Stanford when I say back at
00:11Stanford I didn't study here in fact I
00:13had do not have an MBA as you'll spot
00:15very quickly but I had been here before
00:17and it really is just a great place I
00:19also had the chance of spending the
00:21weekend here and to get to know some of
00:24you so to those of you that I've had the
00:26chance to meet over the weekend could I
00:27just say thank you you've give me a
00:29great welcome give me a great feel for
00:32the place I have to say I think you guys
00:33really really are lucky to get to spend
00:35two years here now what I'd like to do
00:38with you this morning is to give you
00:40some perspectives on leadership that's
00:44the topic you've been talked out a lot
00:46I'm sure and I hope you thought about a
00:48lot about but I want to give you some
00:50perspectives and I chose the word
00:52perspectives quite deliberately I'm not
00:54going to talk about my personal
00:55leadership story it'll be a very very
00:58short presentation indeed if I did but I
01:00want to talk to you about what I've
01:02observed in the many leaders or
01:04purported leaders that I've worked with
01:07over the last 35 years so this is
01:10perspectives on leadership based on what
01:12I seen and what I've heard not just in
01:15business I've worked with people in the
01:17not-for-profit sectors and the public
01:18sector a little bit as well and also for
01:21outside business well so it's really
01:22some general thoughts on leadership and
01:25what I hope to do what I hope to do is I
01:28hope to give you some insights on what
01:30it takes to be a good leader whether
01:33that's in business or in your personal
01:34life or whatever some insights on
01:36leadership and as it's a business school
01:38may be one or two things that you could
01:40do to improve your own personal
01:42leadership skills so that's my hope if
01:44at least 20 percent if you leave is
01:46saying huh I could do do something with
01:48that that would be really really great
01:50I'll talk about 25 minutes and then I'll
01:53throw it open to Q&A anyone to ask about
01:56what I said well I didn't say about the
02:00world at large please just prepare your
02:02questions that I'd be thrilled to have
02:03the chance to get get involved in that
02:06now let me before I start let me just
02:09provide a few comments that I think
02:12frame the topic of leadership before I
02:15get into what I think that makes for a
02:16great leader just some contextual
02:20firstly leadership is a non-hierarchical
02:24concept in my view it's a
02:26non-hierarchical concept people often
02:29confuse positions of leadership with the
02:31exercise of leadership there are many
02:33people who are leaders who in my view
02:36are not leaders at all they happen to be
02:37in leadership positions there are many
02:39people who are not in positions of
02:40leadership who exercise leadership try
02:43and think of it as a non hierarchical
02:46concept it's independent of a position
02:50there are some organizations that
02:52recognize it the military is very very
02:54good at recognizing this you they know
02:55that a sergeant or a platoon leader is a
02:58leader organizations tend to be less
03:01good they assume that the more seen you
03:02are the better the leader you are and it
03:04is not true so when I know this called
03:07the view from the top and Dean perhaps
03:09have a suggestion from you I think that
03:11leadership needs to be viewed from the
03:13bottom from the middle and the top so
03:15maybe the next course you do have view
03:17from the bottom as a thought I I jest
03:21but I think it's important you look at
03:22leadership through many many lenses and
03:25good organizations people are leaders at
03:28all levels including secretaries right
03:30up to the Chairman so it's a non
03:32hierarchical concept there are many CEOs
03:34and chairmen I've worked with that in my
03:35view an optically good leaders and there
03:37many people never recognize as good
03:39leaders who are very good leaders and
03:41I'd like to focus on what I think are
03:43the good leaders so that's point number
03:45one by way of context non hierarchical
03:49second point I'd like to make is that
03:52leadership is a multi-faceted concept it
03:56is it can be defined in a number of
03:59different ways most people think about
04:00business leaders or military leaders but
04:04just step back and think you can be a
04:06ring leader you could be a gang leader
04:09you can be a thought leader you can be a
04:12fashion leader these are all leaders
04:15leadership and I one of the things I get
04:18uncomfortable school is that leadership
04:21is often channeled through a very narrow
04:22prism but remember there are lots of
04:24different types of leadership and it's
04:26very important that they can be very
04:28valuable to me one of the great balance
04:30the last 20 years has been the emergence
04:32of the geek as the lead
04:35and to me it's a logical consequence of
04:39the move to the knowledge economy as we
04:41move to knowledge economy you're gonna
04:43have a lot more geeks as leaders so I
04:45think that numbers of different ones
04:47that you think about leaders and
04:49leadership don't just dismiss the geeky
04:51nerdy guys in the corners not leaders
04:53some of them I promise you will surpass
04:55all of you as leaders same with fashion
04:58same with socials so leadership is a
05:00multi-faceted concept when you talk
05:02about leadership I think it's very very
05:04important talk about what sort of
05:06leadership are you thinking about
05:08so it's non hierarchical it's
05:10multifaceted and then the final point
05:12I'll make before I get into my views on
05:14what defines a leadership as you step
05:18back and think about it is it is
05:20contextually driven now you're all being
05:23told this about context but you cannot
05:25look at leadership in the isolation of
05:27the context that you're in if I focus on
05:30the business world if you're leading a
05:32company in the high-tech industry or the
05:34food industry your challenge is
05:36completely different if you're trying to
05:38lead McKinsey or the Graduate School of
05:41Business or a medical faculty or a
05:43regiment your leadership task is
05:46completely different if we're trying to
05:49lead a group of Japanese people or
05:52people from Brazil as opposed to a group
05:54from Silicon Valley your leadership task
05:56is completely different you have to
05:59understand context to understand
06:00leadership this can be true within the
06:03same industry if you are working we live
06:06we're in Silicon Valley a big high-tech
06:09company leading a high-tech company
06:11whose heritage is in Korea or Taiwan is
06:15completely different from leading a
06:16high-tech company whose heritage is in
06:18Silicon Valley or Munich even though
06:20they may be making exactly the same
06:21product so context is all when you think
06:25about leadership and I come unto what I
06:27think that means for the development of
06:29one's own leadership skills so some
06:32framing comments about at least one
06:34person's view on leadership is it's non
06:37hierarchical it's multifaceted and it is
06:45I have a view on leadership is that it
06:47cannot be defined by characteristics
06:49most of the books and most the talks
06:51you'll get will tell you about what
06:53great leaders are they're good listeners
06:55they're authentic they're dynamic and my
06:58view on that having watched the 30 years
07:00is hmm maybe maybe I work with some
07:05great leaders who listen accordingly in
07:07fact most of the good leaders I work
07:09with listen appalling me some are not
07:11very authentic I'm not sure I quite
07:12understand what authentic means but I
07:14think they're not very authentic if I
07:15got it right some people have no vision
07:19at all and don't believe in it I talked
07:22to one brilliant seer who reminded me of
07:26the very very good point he said the
07:28line between vision and a hallucination
07:30is very small indeed and I don't like it
07:33great leader great leader so I need
07:37generalizations about leader
07:39characteristics I personally think are
07:41interesting but not very helpful and
07:43they're also not very helpful you get
07:44people telling you how to be great
07:46leader and you say well I'm not like
07:47that does that mean that you can't be a
07:49great leader the answer's no it does not
07:51you have to define it your own terms
07:53around you and your organization so my
07:57view is that leadership is best
07:59explained by what leaders actually do
08:01and remember I'm not talking to us about
08:03business leaders it could be personal
08:04leaders parents in some ways the leaders
08:07think about that perhaps have more
08:09influence over people who virtually
08:10anyone I want to talk about what leaders
08:12actually do and in a sense I'm trying to
08:15define leadership from the perspective
08:17of the followers to follow us sometimes
08:20I think it's when you're trying to
08:21define something look it's through a
08:23different prism just like it's often
08:24easier to explain success by looking at
08:27mistakes sometimes it's easier to think
08:29that leadership by terms of followership
08:32and I think and this is my synthesis and
08:36you may think it's rather sad commentary
08:38on my last 30 years right when I look at
08:40the effective leaders that I see I think
08:42that they all they all whatever that
08:45walk of life do five things they all do
08:49five things I just like to go through
08:50the five things that they do not that
08:53they are what they say but they actually
08:55do in the eyes of their followers
08:59number one all leaders set a direction
09:05all leaders Sattar direction it might be
09:09a vision it might be a culture but they
09:11set a direction they might write it down
09:14they might have a big plan which has got
09:17the Kinsey slides in it saying this is
09:19our strategy it might be just
09:21articulated it might be never said and
09:25family businesses they're often never
09:27said but there is a direction and if you
09:30ask most people in the company they will
09:33be able to tell you what that direction
09:34is what the beliefs of the company are
09:36all leaders do this they can do it a
09:40number of different ways then get half
09:42on technique focus on the direction you
09:45might want to put strategy vision you
09:47fill in the dots for yourselves but to
09:49me I use the word direction people in
09:52the organization know where that going
09:54they may not like it they may not
09:57approve of it they may disagree with it
09:59but people in the organization know
10:01where the company is going or where the
10:04organization is going so one thing that
10:08leaders do in my view is they set a
10:11direction the second thing that leaders
10:15do all leaders do in my view is that
10:17they initiate stuff leaders don't just
10:23manage the status quo
10:26now sometimes initiating staff can be
10:29stopping things happening some of the
10:31worst stages of leadership personally
10:33and in observation was in the.com boom
10:36and bust when not enough filler stop
10:38things that we knew were wrong happening
10:40that's initiation going against a trend
10:42could be initiative but usually leaders
10:44start things I don't confuse this with
10:47entrepreneurship it can be
10:50entrepreneurship its initiating things
10:52they initiate change they want to do
10:54things in pursuit of that direction I
10:56don't think as I look back on the
10:59effective leaders that I've worked with
11:00they order them have initiated things a
11:03lot of not effective leaders have talked
11:05about initiating things they talked
11:08beware of leaders that talked about
11:11this time all the time talking about it
11:13and doing it often but real leaders
11:15initiate stuff so initiation initiative
11:19starting things innovate is part of that
11:22is different than innovation we might
11:24want to talk about that but they
11:25initiate things so that is
11:27characteristic number two is set
11:29direction and then you initiate things
11:31usually around that direction the third
11:35thing that leaders do amongst always
11:38emphasized this to MBA students because
11:41typically very brilliant MBA facts are
11:45leaders sustain momentum around those
11:47initiatives they stick with them this is
11:51why you often really read books around
11:53leaders or lectures on how to be a great
11:55leader you hear the word tenacity
11:57determination bullheadedness obstinacy
12:00that's it the extreme of sticking with
12:03but practical leaders I've worked with
12:06that comes a point when absent this is
12:08another fine line when obstinacy becomes
12:10lunacy there is a point of that so and
12:13as you've know a lot of very strong
12:14leaders do go into the lunacy a phase of
12:17obstinacy they stick with things and
12:20typically something I observe that MBAs
12:22are very bad at doing they say how that
12:24didn't work I'll try something else this
12:27is the danger of an entrepreneurial
12:28mindset stick with things but
12:30entrepreneurial leaders stick with
12:32things too so sticking with things
12:34sustaining momentum including through
12:36bad times I think is a really really
12:38important part of leadership and you all
12:41know even observation will tell you that
12:44always things are gonna go wrong and the
12:45real leaders they stick with it the wise
12:48ones know when to stop we can talk about
12:50that but in the end the stearic turistic
12:53of leadership is sticking with things
12:55direction initiative sticking with it
12:59the fourth thing that all leaders do in
13:01some form another in my view is that
13:03they motivate others to do what they
13:06want them to do they motivate people
13:09I used to say inspire and then I realize
13:14from observation as due to my own value
13:16judgment on motivation I happen to think
13:19that many of you the being inspired is
13:21an incredible form of motivation
13:23had to conclude that actually it's not
13:25true to say that leaders or leaders
13:27inspire there a number of techniques of
13:30motivation we've got nine through with
13:34greed is one some leaders are very
13:37effective at using greed as a motivator
13:39fear it is another manipulation is
13:42another encouragement is another there
13:46are various techniques to motivation
13:48it's quite important for you not to
13:50impose your own moral values at this
13:52stage on what works the point I'm making
13:54is that great leaders motivate people to
13:57do things and the really great one thing
13:59what will motivate those people to do it
14:02how you harness those motivations and
14:05you get them consistent with a value set
14:07of a company is a huge issue in its own
14:09right so you can't just say I know Bill
14:12money's his thing argument bonuses I
14:15know Jay and she's got a strong social
14:17conscience I'll let her indulge her not
14:20for profit in seats you can't run an
14:21organization by motivating everybody
14:23differently and how you harness that but
14:25in the end all leaders think a lot about
14:27how do I motivate my team and my people
14:30to get what I want down or what I
14:32believe needs to be done done motivation
14:36of the team selection is a part of it
14:39appointments is a huge part of it it's a
14:41motivational tee to your point but I
14:43just like to leave this idea of
14:45motivation not inspiration even though I
14:47think inspiration come in incredibly
14:49powerful a motivational technique for
14:52very talented well-intentioned people
14:54not everybody sad is like that
14:56I say some of the most effective leaders
14:59I have seen I don't necessarily like it
15:01and I certainly wouldn't necessary my
15:03dinners with these leaders they are
15:05brilliant at manipulating so just try to
15:08avoid forming judgments on people at
15:10this stage and just talk about what
15:11makes for effective leaders and then the
15:15final point the final characteristic at
15:16least I see it of leaders is that all
15:20leaders all leaders whatever their
15:22sector lead by example they may not
15:25think about it they may not talk about
15:28it they do they do it whenever they say
15:32something or they do something people
15:34notice in organizations people
15:37our bus Watchers it's just a human
15:40instinct to just look up you may not
15:42like what you see but people watch and
15:44they listen and they watch what people
15:46do and they listen to what they say and
15:48they look for the difference and all the
15:50work he lived on has a huge amount of
15:52academic research on this is is that
15:54people they watch and they look and they
15:57listen and then they see what the
15:58differences are and that's what the
15:59example that's example when people get
16:03up and bang on were values we have an
16:05organization we really believe that and
16:07then at the next meeting get beaten up
16:09did you miss your budget by two percent
16:11that's what people notice and it's
16:13exaggerated by the talk people do not
16:15take examples from what they hear they
16:18take the examples what they see and what
16:19they observe in terms of human behavior
16:22so all leaders lead by example some
16:25pressures on that when you are in a
16:26leadership position it means whatever
16:29you say or do becomes an act of
16:33leadership by example but all leaders do
16:36that and the thoughtful ones think about
16:38that all the time one of the best in
16:41fact the best talk I've ever heard on
16:43leadership which covers all the five
16:45points and the non contextual point and
16:47it was an impromptu one it was bad given
16:50it wasn't a speech it was a talk by a
16:53noncommissioned officer a sergeant in
16:55the British Army who'd been in Iraq and
16:58then in Afghanistan he was a private in
17:00Iraq and he become a sergeant
17:01Afghanistan and he talked about
17:03leadership this is from the bottom of
17:06that one and it is the best controlled
17:08experiment he'd worked the five
17:09different officers three of whom he
17:11thought were great and one of whom he
17:12thought was truly terrible he talked
17:14about his own leadership experience and
17:16the one a was an ACCI Mesmer I mean he's
17:18a very bad talker but it was mesmerizing
17:20in terms of content but what he
17:24absolutely was saying was the leadership
17:26by example of what people do
17:28particularly under fire literally under
17:29fire is what you remember just remember
17:32that as well you think about leadership
17:34by example all of you when you leave
17:36here will be watched as leaders and it's
17:37what you do and what you say and the
17:39difference between of two that people
17:41actually notice so let me recap before I
17:45conclude when I talk I've tried to give
17:48comments on leadership about it's non
17:51Arkel it's multifaceted in its shape by
17:53context do you think about that and then
17:56I've five thoughts on what I believe
17:57defines what leaders do they set a
18:00direction their niche initiate stuff
18:02they stick with it they think hard about
18:06motivation and they know that they
18:08always lead by example whatever they do
18:10and they say and I think that framework
18:12and we can talk about in the clearin
18:14area I think can hopefully help help to
18:17find what is a good leader now I just
18:21want to conclude and looking at the time
18:23but let me just this is a business
18:25school so I probably should finish with
18:27some tips and suggestions on how you as
18:29individuals can become if you want to
18:32come it can become better or more
18:35effective personal leaders and I think
18:37what I'm going to say is true not just
18:39for your careers I imagine all of you
18:42going into entrepreneur consulting tech
18:45but some of you hope to be gay into
18:46academia or the public so this may be
18:48some of you going to focus on being a
18:49parent and I hope this will be relevant
18:50to all of you every single one of you in
18:52this room about some tips on how you
18:56might become a more effective personal
18:59this will only resonate with you if what
19:01I said the last 20 minutes has if not
19:03look at your factories now it's a good
19:05time to do that the first thing that I
19:08think you can do is spend a bit of time
19:12thinking about the context point I mean
19:16really thinking about it by context I
19:19mean when you join an organization
19:21understand its history is crises its
19:25people its culture its values most of us
19:29spend more of our time complaining about
19:32our context than we do thinking about
19:34them generally great leaders don't
19:37complain very much great leaders
19:39generally don't complain and they don't
19:41blame their thinking they're saying I'm
19:43not gonna do that again but just think
19:46about your context before many of you
19:48will be frustrated by your first jobs
19:51you will be it's just part of it I was
19:54but instead of getting to for us to just
19:56think about it why is it why is it and
19:59often it's a lack of understanding the
20:01context of that organization what are
20:03the goals that are found
20:04one of the goals of this organization
20:06you know what are they trying to do what
20:08are the things that discard them why do
20:10they do something so idiotic if good
20:13people do something idiotic they're
20:14probably not doing something idiotic is
20:16my general observation there's a reason
20:17spend time understanding the context and
20:20I often meet it means spending time
20:22understanding the history the history
20:25either of the founders or the
20:26organization itself so at be tip number
20:28one spend some time on that secondly I'm
20:32really very careful that this is a
20:34Stanford GSB audience on this because
20:37you get a lot of this I know but this
20:39self-awareness stuff is important it is
20:45important you can take it too far I mean
20:49you can spend too much time analyzing
20:51yourself you know when you you you get
20:53caught at dinner talking to somebody's
20:54going to the shrink for last year the
20:55most boring evening I'll ever have in
20:57your life you know you learn more about
20:58people you ever want to know but
21:00nevertheless the self-awareness stuff is
21:02really really important not just how do
21:05you look at yourself now see yourself
21:06that's important too but how do others
21:09see you as a leader it's think about it
21:12I'm a great believer in 360-degree
21:15feedback and feedback from others but
21:17I'm not very impressed by how people use
21:19this feedback they tend to take
21:21criticisms or something they got to deal
21:23with and praise or something they got to
21:25do more of not true not true if you're a
21:29leader and you get it feedback and I saw
21:31this raw Franco sangria you know really
21:34good guy high standards but really tough
21:36ones team's doesn't give credit enough
21:40don't necessarily be less tough on teams
21:43and give more credit if that what makes
21:45you a leader motivates your team maybe
21:47it's the right thing so think about the
21:50feedback or you get great fit lovely
21:52person to work with really sufer always
21:55look to work with him and that's all the
21:56feedback is that's some orange light sir
21:59are you pushing people hard enough or
22:01the quality Sanders half now so when you
22:03get feedback don't just pick the classes
22:06and say oh I must correct the minuses
22:08that is not the way the great leaders
22:10operate they say is that how does that
22:12feedback link to my leadership impact
22:15I'm not saying ignore the criticisms and
22:17you're not saying don't bask in the
22:20glory appraised if you get it but think
22:22about it in terms of so what so what so
22:25that's not tip number two self-awareness
22:29in a leadership context not just as a as
22:33thirdly leadership skills I think
22:38leadership can be taught a bit I think
22:42it can be learnt a lot and I think it
22:43could be experienced a lot let me talk
22:46about what can be taught and learned
22:48through coaching or through the
22:50classroom or through cut colleagues and
22:52they are usually what I call classic
22:54leadership skills communications would
22:57be one you can learn and practice how to
22:59be a better communicator strategic
23:02it's another team-building is another
23:05there's some leadership skills that you
23:07can develop EQ is another you know there
23:10are some skills so when you get your
23:11feedback if you let's say which skills
23:14can I get taught or can I practice so
23:17think about that there are some other
23:20skills and this is tough for MBA types
23:24and consulting at types I think I would
23:28say this because then you get to my age
23:29you start saying things like this but I
23:31believe it can only be learned through
23:33experience I think it's very very
23:36different maybe through reading and
23:37studying that's really experience and
23:39this is the bugbear of people in a hurry
23:42and these skills are skills like
23:44judgment diplomacy statesmanship
23:50cultural sensitivity it's very very hard
23:54in a classroom setting or a peer group
23:56setting to learn these skills I mean if
23:59I take diplomacy which I think is going
24:02to be an increasingly important
24:03leadership skill in a globalizing
24:05business unless you've been to a lot of
24:07countries made a food of yourself in a
24:10number of different cultures seeing
24:13other people get it right and get it
24:14wrong being and lived in three or four
24:17different places quite hard to get that
24:19sort of learning and that takes time as
24:21I said and that's the enemy of most MBA
24:24training is time but there are some
24:25skills that I just do think that
24:28experience is really important and I
24:31about that because particularly of those
24:33of you whose careers will not get off to
24:35a rocket like start and it will be a
24:39third of you and it would be difficult
24:40for you don't give up on that that could
24:43be the making of you it could be the
24:44making of you and for those of you will
24:47be most of use careers get off to a
24:50don't get seduced by that either because
24:53that could be the breaking of you as
24:55so just think about the experiential
24:57skills of leadership I think that's a
25:00really really important factor of it so
25:03skills that can be taught think about it
25:05skills that can be that final point
25:08which is not a tip thought but it's a
25:10request it's a request
25:11because I think you know as Stanford
25:14grads or potential grads either you know
25:16in the summer of the summer off I do
25:18think have a bit of an obligation and
25:20one thing I absolutely believe about
25:22leadership is that it can be nurtured it
25:26could be nurtured and this is I think
25:28one of the responsibilities of
25:29leadership is to nurture leadership in
25:32others there are some institutions that
25:33do it really well but most do not they
25:36think about it we think about it in
25:38terms of ourselves so as you get into
25:40positions of influence when you can
25:43actually deal with potential leaders
25:46think about nurturing leadership what do
25:48I mean about that one give people
25:51everyone everyone you work with and I'm
25:54talk about your assistant and talk about
25:55your peers and talking about everyone
25:58give them a leadership opportunity and
26:01that does not mean a bigger model to run
26:05necessarily it doesn't mean a bigger
26:08responsibility or a bigger sorry give
26:09them a leadership opportunity where they
26:12can exercise a different go back to my
26:14five-part framer give them an
26:15opportunity it's amazing the payback you
26:18get and look really great leadership
26:20organizations not the great leadership
26:22leaders the great leadership
26:23organizations are one that really really
26:26focus on giving everyone leadership
26:28opportunities you've got to accept that
26:30some people will not be able to take
26:31those opportunities and some people fail
26:33that's part of it you've got to give
26:34opportunities in a very very thoughtful
26:37way the second one is encouragement
26:40encourage people it's an obvious point
26:42we all all of us like encouragement
26:44they don't care about to this line we
26:46all like it but it really does make a
26:48huge different but it only makes a
26:50difference of its that company by
26:51challenge most company is now quite a
26:55lot in the US like this which what I
26:57call great job cultures great job Joe
27:01great job Jane they're not usually very
27:03strong leadership cultures because if
27:06the challenge isn't now and the
27:07standards aren't there the encouragement
27:09can diminish an organization so with
27:12encouragement that comes challenge and
27:15standards and pushback you see this
27:16impairing in particular it's a very
27:18difficult I don't know if we have
27:19anybody as a mom or dad here but that
27:22balance being encouraging your children
27:23and pushing them very very important to
27:25us I believe this is true for
27:28organization this is combination setting
27:30the stand as challenge I ain't
27:32criticizing and encouraging something
27:34for you to think about I think it's
27:35really really something important so if
27:37I could just leave sort of four thoughts
27:39before I shut up and thread open to just
27:43questions think a lot about your context
27:47think about yourselves as leaders not
27:49just in terms of feedback think about
27:51building your skills through teaching
27:53coaching learning reading and through
27:56experience and then finally think about
27:58your obligation to nurture and
28:00leadership in others I will stop that I
28:04have one or two things I said resonate
28:06if not this is your chance to correct me
28:19hi thank you for the talk you know one
28:25of the most interesting just say who
28:27yeah ii yes my name is john john in the
28:31first year here so one of the most
28:34interesting things about business school
28:35husband talks like these where we kind
28:37of learn heuristics about you know what
28:39makes a good leader and you know so
28:43thank you but i had just had a question
28:45about your framework one of the things
28:46that i noticed and you said something
28:47kind of interesting which was that you
28:51shouldn't impose kind of moral judgments
28:54on the decisions that people make in the
28:56way that they decide to motivate other
28:58people and that kind of goes that kind
29:01of goes against a heuristic that i've
29:03learned about leadership which is that
29:05leadership should be should come from a
29:09place of kind of good or ethical morals
29:14or or judgments how do you so how do you
29:17kind of bring those bring those together
29:20because i you know i think i look at the
29:23framework and you know a lot of it is
29:25consistent with kind of people you know
29:30who have political leaders of them to me
29:33for example like that's my question
29:36it's it's it's a great question and if I
29:40implied that there isn't well I don't
29:42believe it there isn't a role for moral
29:44and ethical leadership business and gets
29:46wrong my point was when you look at what
29:48leaders do some of them are not ethical
29:50people are not moral and you should
29:52observe that I think that is not the
29:56sort of leader that any of you many of
29:58you any of you I hope in this room would
30:00ever want to be or would ever want to
30:01work and I wouldn't but the what my
30:04point was that when you're Coburn at the
30:05analyzing leadership you've got to look
30:08at what they do now let me just take an
30:10example I came for an organization which
30:13likes to sad salvan is a values driven
30:15organization a superior way just had to
30:18run like a lot of Johnson & Johnson I
30:20twelve is the values for an organization
30:22and they were very good but the best
30:26what kind of values we have an
30:27organization I've ever read is about
30:30was around the Salomon's trading floor
30:32the 1980s and that was the values driven
30:35organization and those values were
30:38horrible horrible but they were
30:41effective for a time and that was the
30:44point on the time there was no ethic
30:45that you know they had a you eat what
30:47you kill the guy who earns the most
30:49money is the top god there's a gate to
30:51promote it that was that values and my
30:53point was that worked as a leadership
30:54organisation for a bit but it wasn't
30:57sustaining and the real leaders which is
30:58he didn't add an ethical judgment so
31:01what I was trying to say was just look
31:03at what makes this organisation work
31:04then say how am I going to change it and
31:06do I want to be part of it and I
31:08absolutely agree that I would never work
31:10and I have no indians from whatever work
31:12with an organization that doesn't have
31:14good moral ethical principles but
31:16prepare yourself for the fact that there
31:18are some effective leadership
31:19organizations that do not or have
31:22different ethics and morals from what
31:24you have know just leave it at that
31:26thank you thank you so I'm a really
31:29crucial part of leadership or leadership
31:31but don't prejudge until you know what
31:33the context is do it is it ladies first
31:38all right that one and I sure we get the
31:41right hi thanks for coming I'm Omer
31:44first year if someone comes from
31:47organization who seems to value MBAs a
31:50lot or an MBA degree and doesn't have an
31:52MBA himself I was wondering what you
31:54think are the benefits and maybe
31:56setbacks an MBA has I could say having
32:02heard me as non-nba talk you're probably
32:04work better able to judge at the man and
32:05I don't think it matters in a sense I
32:09mean McKinsey is a big MBA I think it
32:14and let me just say why which is not say
32:16I don't think an MBA doesn't matter
32:18saying MBAs incredibly valuable and I'm
32:20a passionate proponent of MBAs by the
32:22way I am of all tertiary education well
32:28let me just say for example I come from
32:29a when I was at McKinsey everybody think
32:31Mackenzie's an MBA school under 50% of
32:34McKinsey people have MBAs under 50% so
32:37we a lot of MBAs more than anybody and
32:4135% now have PhDs so it's not an MBA
32:46sort of I think MBA and the key is the
32:50talent the key is the talent always the
32:52talent the talent the talent and the
32:54truth is that a lot of very motivating
32:57high talented people do MBAs they did I
32:59mean this is just in this room I know I
33:01don't know hardly any of you I just know
33:03there's an awesome amount of talent here
33:05that's why firms like mine are here
33:07primarily it's not I don't want to be
33:10rude deal it is not because you're
33:12standing here and that's point one the
33:17second thing is I think MBAs and also a
33:19JD or bring a medicine or an engineer
33:22adds a discipline and a network in a
33:24social which is irreplaceable I think it
33:26is a replace will you know that and I've
33:28seen that over the weekend saying hey it
33:29adds a lot of a lot of value and thirdly
33:31I think this is less true now than it
33:33was when I was young it teaches you
33:36techniques and skills that you need in
33:38business now I say that because I've
33:40noticed a lot of MBAs now have a
33:42consulting background or being in a
33:43hedge fund or Investment Banking and
33:45they know a lot of stuff where they come
33:47and I would imagine this is a challenge
33:49when I was young you know you just you
33:51know when I drove McKinsey I did not
33:53know what discounted cash flow was it
33:55would have been nice to MBA before I had
33:58to go through that first yeah but who'd
34:00do that so I think for some people and I
34:03hope some of you the technical skills
34:04important the network is important the
34:06chance to have tertiary education get
34:08the discipline is really really valuable
34:09but do I fundamentally think that MBAs
34:12quire MBAs will change you're looking at
34:19hi my name is Vicki Slav and I'm an MBA
34:21one and I spent three years at McKinsey
34:23as a caveat to my question
34:25um one of the things we've been learning
34:27about in strategy classes the difference
34:29between management and leadership
34:30management being setting targets and
34:32helping people meet them and some such
34:34things and leadership is inspiring
34:35others would you characterize the work
34:37that McKinsey does and other consulting
34:39firms as management or leadership
34:41primarily I well I wouldn't recognize
34:46the difference I think it's very
34:48difficult to lead effectively without
34:50managing and it's very differently a
34:51very good manager with it out at some
34:53point leading so to say management what
34:56about is performance an assessment and
34:58how can you do that and not do that and
35:00a motivational so hang is a bit of a
35:01bogus dichotomy personally I'm probably
35:04going exact opposite of what you've been
35:07taught in your classes I think at some
35:10point in a business organization at
35:12least and I'd certainly see this and if
35:14you want to see the truth risk go and
35:15work in the not-for-profit sector or the
35:16social sector where you see leadership
35:18and no management and it's usually a
35:20disaster and complete disaster in
35:22leadership terms so I think leadership
35:24and management inextricably combined at
35:28some point and really good management
35:29organizations always have some
35:32leadership capacity it's it's a long
35:36question I know what you're saying I
35:37think when it comes to consulting I
35:40don't know I think people make a lot of
35:43a lot of faff about consulting and
35:46business I think I'm much much more
35:47senior and in the end what you're trying
35:49to do is you're trying to get stuff to
35:50happen that's what you're trying to do
35:52and you can do it independently or
35:54dependently so I think there's much much
35:57less different which is why a lot of
35:59consultants very seamlessly go and work
36:01for big organizations around renown it's
36:03no big deal so I think that the
36:05difference is between careers are
36:09grossly exaggerated when you're in the
36:11goldfish bowl of an MBA class you know
36:14you'll you're trained to pick on
36:15differences and then magnify them I
36:17would say this is one of those examples
36:19so that's my personal thank you for the
36:27opportunity to hear about your
36:32put yourself in in New York City
36:34courtroom District Attorney of New York
36:36comes up to you and says do you have any
36:39reason to believe Rajat Gupta is guilty
36:42what would you say I've known Rajat got
36:47to this is in connection with the
36:48Galleon case obviously very distressing
36:51for people at McKinsey and anybody who
36:53knew Rajat I'd known Rashad for many
36:56many years and I liked him a lot and I
36:58seen him do a massive amount of good
37:00things I don't know what happened on the
37:02legal accord I I do not think he is a
37:06bad person I seen him do too many good
37:08things where the stuff happened this is
37:10all I don't know we'll have to see but I
37:13will defend and I do as Raja as a person
37:17at what he did I will defend absolutely
37:19has he done some inappropriate things it
37:22doesn't look very good and that's
37:23obvious hi my name is Josiah fuller I'm
37:28an MBA one thank you for speaking to us
37:29my question has to do with the balance
37:32between kind of for-profit interests and
37:34also social goals I think a lot of us
37:35came to the GSB because we have lofty
37:38social aspirations would have changed
37:39the world but also were hampered by this
37:41desire to establish our self to
37:42establish ourselves professionally and
37:44be successful in our realm as somebody
37:46who's done a really good job of
37:47balancing both but skewed it seems more
37:49in the for-profit sector but then it had
37:51tremendous impact on both any guidelines
37:53recommendations for how we can do that
37:55for the next 10 20 30 years and when it
37:57makes the most sense to could have
37:59jumped into the social realm to have the
38:00most impact well I think you're saying
38:04it I'm not sure I'd like on social
38:07problems again I personally wouldn't
38:11frame it the way that you have I think
38:12if you want to change the world and do
38:15good for the world you can do it through
38:16the private sector or the public sector
38:18or the social sector and on the whole I
38:20think was good more progress on social
38:23problems has come through the private
38:24sector than the not-for-profit sector so
38:27good intentions go back to my leadership
38:29framework good intentions is not the
38:30same thing as impact and when I see the
38:33appalling ways some incompetence in
38:36Africa where I spend a lot time or in
38:37India I would challenge that do not
38:42assume that because you want to be a
38:45going to consulting and a banker that
38:47you cannot and are not doing social good
38:49I think is grossly arrogant for people
38:51to say that about and do not assume that
38:54because somebody works for a non-profit
38:56they are really good people who want to
38:58do good do not assume that and I've seen
39:01it and if you are running a big company
39:04or running a successful private equity
39:06firm you build companies you earn a lot
39:08of money you pay a lot of taxes and you
39:11spend time nurturing leadership you're
39:13doing good so don't get trapped by to do
39:16good you've got to be in the social
39:17sector and if you're in private equity
39:20or because you're a bad it's just not
39:22true in my observation
39:23I personally I'm more of a parable of
39:26the talents type of person and I'm very
39:28interested in social problems I believe
39:30that the big problems of the world are
39:32now in the social domain and I think the
39:35social sector has a role to play I think
39:37the private sector is a huge role to
39:38play as well and I think government does
39:40do that's what I'm trying to get at that
39:42work but let me just boil you've two
39:45minutes the parable of the talents and
39:48those of you is that some Christian
39:50religious backgrounds don't know this is
39:51a story about encouraging someone to do
39:54what they're good at and the best
39:56example I know it was a friend of mine
39:58at McKinsey when I was at McKinsey he
40:00was a director in the Italian office
40:01from McKinsey and he was really--it any
40:04look like an Omani model immaculate
40:06suits yellow Porsche you know he sort of
40:08made you sick when you looked at him to
40:10do that and he was a really nice guy too
40:13which made it even worse and and he had
40:16a very very strong social continuin me
40:18so he was always agonizing with guilt he
40:21said have so much money and any and he
40:23said I want to do that and I love my
40:26seat so I love my portion yeah and
40:28you're a lot of us goes through that
40:30dimension and anyway he couldn't stand
40:32anymore and he resigned he said I'm
40:34going to set up I'm gonna go and work
40:38for a charity in Madagascar he had a a
40:40thing about Madagascar he said I'm gonna
40:42go and devote myself to an orphanage in
40:46Madagascar which he used to go to every
40:47summer for his holiday that's what he
40:49did he didn't go decide in England so as
40:52they got very very strong social
40:55if you saw him you'd say a head gee if
41:00now the point was what do you do with
41:02that and I remember it's this a billion
41:05piece of leadership the the managing
41:08partner in Italy I also knew very well
41:10because this guy talk to me lightly what
41:12you doing outside and I said you seem in
41:14a muddle why didn't take a few weeks off
41:16and think about it wasn't getting
41:17anywhere but the managing partners said
41:19to him he said Leonardo is his name say
41:24Leonardo he said is this the best thing
41:27you can do he said I've watched you and
41:29you are a brilliant consultant and
41:31financier and I don't know if you'd be a
41:36very good orphanage manager why don't
41:40you do what you're good at and give your
41:41money to people who can build an
41:44orphanage and that's what he's done he
41:47stayed at McKinsey he's very happy it's
41:49got two Porsches now and he gives all
41:52his practice Wells and the the orphanage
41:54has 1,400 people now who have the
41:57biggest impact on social Saturday if
41:59you've gone there and being a
42:01social worker doing great things maybe
42:04feeling good about it and to an impact
42:07now go back to leadership impact what
42:08did he do I think he's had more impact
42:10so I applaud you and encourage you if
42:14your instincts but think hard about how
42:16can you have the most impact on social
42:17problems and in your context of yourself
42:20there's my point so remember the story
42:22of Leonardo and the Porsches and the
42:24Madagascar thank you mr. Davis thank you
42:32very much for coming my name is Peter
42:34pessoa I'm a second year here my
42:37question is more along the lines of the
42:38personal cost and sacrifice is required
42:40to be a great leader and so when you see
42:43these great leaders where have they gone
42:45where has it gone well in managing the
42:48costs and sacrifices of leadership and
42:50where are they done poorly ah this is
42:56that's a great question then we could do
42:59that raised and this is a bit
43:05generational when I was starting off you
43:07know work because by father dominant
43:09it was mostly male-oriented so I this is
43:11a classic by the way I noticed when you
43:13talk about work-life balance and the
43:15pursuit of happiness you get people like
43:17me to come into each day you really want
43:1935 year olds who are wrestling with this
43:21problem to talk to you about how they
43:22coping with it so I'm not saying either
43:24I or my generations about another tip
43:27you get get somebody who's a young
43:30partner of goldman sachs who's got three
43:32kids and a husband who's a corporate
43:34lawyer to come and talk about work-life
43:35balance it's a lot more used to laying
43:36people like me talk about it I have to
43:40say this is my experience but certainly
43:42for entrepreneurs certainly for
43:43entrepreneurs they don't really get the
43:45question they're obsessed work work is
43:52life that thing is their life and their
43:55families are just around that and they
43:56can be have very good families by the
43:58way so I have to say that you do not
44:00want to hear this but it's my
44:01observation the truth is a lot of great
44:04leaders don't really get the question
44:06they're slightly we are slightly
44:08obsessive not a good answer it's just
44:10I'm just giving it as I see it so at
44:12some point and this is particularly true
44:14for entrepreneurs particularly true for
44:16entrepreneurs it's the question is
44:18almost I didn't get what you for those
44:21of you those of us those of you that
44:24really think about trying to juggle the
44:26balls and their B is particularly true
44:27when children come along I think for
44:29most people and it's not just mums by
44:31the way it's true for dance too
44:33that's a really defining thing about how
44:35you gonna make it work I don't have any
44:37I don't know I I just don't know the
44:40answer I've seen so many people go
44:41through this I think in the end sort of
44:43muddling through is not bad money really
44:45helps if you can throw money at the
44:48problem and get a couple of man isn't a
44:49driver it helps then offer it no no it
44:52you just you know just it helps if it
44:57really doesn't help deciding who is
44:58going to take the primary burden doesn't
45:00have to be the the woman is one doesn't
45:03have to be you trying to get in careers
45:05that are more flexible but I think in
45:06the end its segments of one start
45:07muddling through the only thing that I
45:09would say is and I saw a lot of this at
45:12McKinsey particularly with women very
45:15able women who love the firm but
45:17couldn't make it work
45:18is the don't assume because you adopt
45:21for a different work-life balance you'll
45:23suddenly be more fulfilled and the truth
45:26is I mean in a sense all of you all of
45:29us are cursed we're cursed by ability
45:32and ambition and education and you can't
45:35just switch it off you can't just switch
45:37it off and I think in the end you've
45:39just got to decide for yourself a
45:40balance of fulfillment and life and it's
45:44segments of one something but not get
45:45too neurotic about it and you get too
45:48neurotic about it I think the worst
45:49thing you can be there is not fulfilled
45:51if you are trained to be a leader
45:52trained to be a multi-billionaire
45:54trained to be a the best techie in the
45:56world you've got to do what you got to
45:58do and I think most founders adjust of
46:00that if you do what family work-life
46:02balance and it's personal interest you
46:03just go to muddle through it's it's a
46:05very very long answer that's one thing
46:07that does get easy as you get older and
46:09it's much tougher and I remember this
46:11you know when you're 25 or 30 when
46:14you're older you know and you know when
46:16I was elected the managing partner of
46:19McKinsey my wife's watch it before I did
46:21she said this is gonna be a tough six
46:23years and I said that's okay the next
46:26six years could be for you for the one
46:28after the next six years of that will be
46:29for me that's a way of muddling through
46:32and it was and she said you got to do it
46:34and I said and I knew I knew that it's
46:36gonna be gone all I was and she said
46:39that's okay I understand you you've got
46:40to do it and boy am I paying Bank now
46:43she said the trouble is I do know that
46:48when you're 27 you say honey for the
46:49next six years it's going to be it don't
46:51work I know that you you negate you
46:53negotiate in three months chunks when
46:55you're 27 I know that is not very I
46:59think there's no answer I just you've
47:02got to you've just got to recommend my
47:04point about self-awareness you are high
47:06achieving people and if you suppress
47:08that if you suppress that bad things
47:11will happen and you see it we've had
47:13even mom said I gave it all up to look
47:16after my children they're often doing a
47:19lot of other stuff just they're not
47:20working same with men as well so a long
47:23answer I'm basically I don't know just
47:25figure thank you very much
47:27I just do one last question is that our
47:34item and we'll break for lunch
47:36MBA - my question is regarding your
47:40country the UK as you know it's probably
47:42going to go into recession over the
47:44coming few months and then you're all
47:46advising the government what are your
47:48solutions for both the private and the
47:49public sector in order to prevent the UK
47:53from going to recession recession and do
47:54you think it's preventable well
47:57certainly not by me and III think the
48:05next year is downtown is so much is in
48:07the control of the financial markets I
48:09think Europe is gonna have a very very
48:11difficult period my own view is that the
48:13credit crisis in Europe hasn't caused
48:17the current problems they've exposed
48:19them and these problems have been
48:21building over 15 years we sort of knew
48:24it it's now very very clear when you've
48:26had a 15 year problem that's exposed you
48:28do not solve it in two or three years
48:30you know that do you understand them
48:32better than I do about imbalances and
48:34rebalancing and all this recession it'll
48:37be what it will be I think it's gonna be
48:39a lot of a lot of grief in a year over
48:40the next two or three years my view is
48:42that I'm saying in the government look
48:44beyond it and I have nothing to offer
48:46now about how you manage through a
48:48recession fiscal stimulus all the rest
48:50it's very very tricky look beyond it
48:53what are you going to do that will take
48:55it forward then I think you go back to
48:57the fundamentals of productivity
48:59innovation encouraging enterprise all
49:03those sorts of things so the role to any
49:05I'm finding is on productivity
49:07innovation getting into sectors
49:09encouraging the country moving sectors
49:11were off it it's nothing to do the next
49:12two to three years I think that's really
49:15not very the one thing I am working is
49:18on it's civil service reform and public
49:21sector a huge issue in the Western world
49:23is public sector productivity and
49:26productivity leads to growth you know
49:28that I know that most people don't get
49:29it they think the productivity is out
49:31cutting jobs but productivity and growth
49:34fundamentally the Pug that when your
49:37public sector is 50% of GDP which it is
49:40European countries you have to get it as
49:42productive as the private sector and
49:44there's a huge task on that doesn't mean
49:46mean less jobs necessarily I mean if you
49:49take the health sector the productivity
49:51could increase by 30 percent easily and
49:54all those people could be re-employed in
49:56the health sector for greater output so
49:58the thing that I'm focusing on is
50:01productivity in the public sector of
50:03civil service reform using some of the
50:05skills got to be careful it's very
50:07different mindset in the sector and
50:10really get it but public sector
50:12productivity is is going to be huge and
50:15when people say to me my final comment
50:18you know the big biggest problem in the
50:21Western world is greed it's not its
50:24entitlement entitlement is the biggest
50:27single problem we have to capture we
50:29have to challenge that in the public and
50:30in the private sector
![Welp, Here's what the Fed *Just* Said [Fed FOMC Minutes]](/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2Fl8u23oq1E9E%2Fhqdefault.jpg&w=3840&q=75)
