How to Take Great Engineers & Make Them Great Technical Leaders • Courtney Hemphill • GOTO 2017
GOTO Conferences2017-11-10
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💫 Short Summary
Courtney Hempel shares her journey transitioning from coding to managing teams, emphasizing general management skills for product success. Challenges include retaining technical teams and developing leadership skills, with a focus on effective communication and mentorship. Michael Dearing discusses the importance of clear communication and goal setting for entrepreneurs. Google's project Aristotle reveals the key factors for successful teams, emphasizing psychological safety and a learning-centric culture. Stitch Fix's model of microservices and mentoring leads to rapid growth and employee satisfaction. Peer-to-peer mentoring, pair programming, and feedback are essential for professional development. Radical Candor promotes a balance of personal care and challenging feedback in leadership. Feedback, retrospectives, and valuing team contributions are crucial for team dynamics and growth. Career progression options should include leadership and technical paths, with a focus on company culture and collaboration. Feedback, metrics, and career growth through collaboration and mentorship are key for team management and leadership development.
✨ Highlights
📊 Transcript
✦
Courtney Hempel shares her journey from an individual contributor to leading teams and managing people.
00:56She discusses the transition from solving code problems to solving people problems as an engineering manager.
Courtney emphasizes the importance of general management skills in creating effective teams and successful companies.
She highlights that resources and funding are not the only factors that lead to product success.
Courtney talks about the challenges faced in hiring and developing great technical leaders and managers.
✦
Retaining technical teams is challenging due to high attrition rates and the need for internal resources to develop leadership skills.
04:33Companies are transitioning to smaller, independent teams, creating a gap in general management skills.
Engineers can utilize their technical skills to solve people problems within teams.
Not everyone needs to be in a management role, and career progression should offer alternative options.
The speaker provides tools and experiences to help address challenges in team management.
✦
Speaker's journey from non-CS background to engineering skills development at Carbon Five.
07:27Transition from independent consulting to joining a larger team, focusing on pair programming and mentorship.
Interest in working with larger teams and clients, leading to management roles and challenges in team management.
Learning process compared to rock climbing terminologies, evolving from 'Gumby' to stable leader.
✦
Transitioning from technical problems to managing human issues in the workplace.
10:58Importance of communication and how software development skills can be applied to management.
Need for effective communication, mentorship, and learning from great cultures in management roles.
Significance of addressing human problems within teams and organizational culture.
Personal struggles and strategies for developing management skills based on experiences.
✦
Michael Dearing's background in Silicon Valley, eBay, Walt Disney, and entrepreneurship.
14:00Dearing teaches a class at Stanford for entrepreneurs and saw the need for general management education.
He invests in early-stage entrepreneurs and runs an educational school under Harrison Metal.
Dearing emphasizes clear communication, using tools like the pyramid principle from Barbara Minto to create effective arguments.
The pyramid principle helps convey complex ideas concisely in meetings or boardrooms, emphasizing brevity and clarity for impactful communication.
✦
Importance of providing supporting details in communication.
16:33Start with a clear situation, introduce complications and questions to drive discussion.
Use goal setting tools like Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) for alignment.
Think big and focus on quality when setting objectives.
Have regular check-ins and continual cadence to keep teams aligned and moving forward.
✦
Key Highlights from Google's Project Aristotle
21:50Successful teams have psychological safety, autonomy, shared accountability, and a learning-centric culture.
Positive team culture is critical for business success, while toxic cultures can be as harmful as product failures.
Actively shaping company culture is vital for long-term success and employee satisfaction.
Data-driven approaches to team management can improve team performance and business outcomes.
✦
Stitch Fix utilizes data and algorithms for personalized online styling.
23:10The company has 80 data scientists and 3,500 stylists working together since 2011.
A microservices approach supports rapid growth, enabling autonomous teams to make quick decisions and deploy code continuously.
This structure results in high development velocity and employee satisfaction.
Mentoring is a key focus for both internal and external individuals.
✦
Importance of peer-to-peer mentoring, pair programming, and one-on-one meetings in professional development and problem-solving.
26:15Peer mentoring involves seeking feedback from peers and learning from their experiences.
Pair programming aids in problem resolution by collaborating with others.
One-on-one meetings provide insight into team dynamics and individual challenges, benefiting both employees and managers.
Recommendations include seeking mentorship from experienced leaders like Michael Lop and joining online communities for support and knowledge sharing.
✦
Importance of Authenticity and Human Connection at Work.
29:56Fostering valuable relationships and investing time in developing them is crucial for success in the workplace.
Radical Candor by Kim Scott is recommended as a tool for effective leadership, promoting personal care and challenging individuals to improve.
Balancing personal care with challenging feedback is essential for helping employees grow and excel.
Overcoming societal norms of only saying nice things is encouraged to provide direct and constructive feedback for professional development.
✦
Importance of feedback for team improvement and growth.
33:10Addressing issues early to prevent negative impacts on team dynamics.
Conducting retrospectives at the end of the week for evaluating team performance.
Valuing team members' unique contributions and respecting each other in the workplace.
Implementing a 'product artboard' concept to align efforts with providing value to customers and the team's vision.
✦
Importance of capturing metrics for understanding work performance.
36:30Career advancement not always involving management.
Two paths for career progression within organizations introduced.
Emphasis on distinct titles, roles, and responsibilities for mentors in skill development and leadership.
Collaboration and mentorship as key components for career growth and skill development.
✦
Importance of Career Progression Options within Companies.
39:16Benefits of maintaining coding skills even in leadership roles.
Transitioning between management and technical roles is possible.
Balancing leadership responsibilities with technical contributions.
Engineers play a valuable role in driving organizational change.
✦
Importance of Company Culture in Retaining Talent and Fostering Collaboration.
41:12Taking initiative to address issues within the organization, such as development cycles and project initiatives, can lead to positive change.
Building from the ground up, involving multiple voices, and gaining buy-in for new strategies are emphasized.
Operating within a larger organization requires strategic timing and consideration of financial constraints.
Encouraging flexibility, experimentation, and lean operations can improve company dynamics, and balancing authority with peer relationships within teams is crucial.
✦
Importance of feedback in team management.
45:13Utilizing software and tools to facilitate feedback process.
Benefits of anonymous surveys and tailored communication methods for introverts.
Recognizing individual communication styles for effective leadership.
Adapting communication approaches for improved team dynamics.
✦
Closing remarks and gratitude for audience participation.
47:10The speaker apologizes for not being able to answer all questions due to time constraints.
Expresses gratitude for the engaging questions from the audience.
Indicates a break is needed.
Segment ends with applause from the audience.
00:06[Music]
00:08thank you all thanks for coming in good
00:11morning I appreciate you all spending
00:13your mornings talking about such
00:15thrilling things as management so I know
00:18there's two words don't really usually
00:20go next to one another but as an
00:22engineer it was sort of interesting
00:24going from solving code problems to
00:26solving people problems and it was
00:28infinitely just as interesting as the
00:30software that I was developing so a
00:32couple quick things
00:34it's always helpful to get feedback you
00:36know continuous experimentation I would
00:38love for you all to tell me how this
00:40talk sounds you know what am I missing
00:42what are the holes that I need to shine
00:44a light on so please rate the session
00:45and let me know what you think and then
00:47please do that favor to the other
00:48speakers that you're going to be seeing
00:50today and tomorrow it's really helpful
00:52for all of us so as I mentioned my name
00:56is Courtney hempel I'm a partner and a
00:58technical lead at a company called
00:59carbon 5 so we're a consulting company
01:01we work with lots of different companies
01:03on lots of different types of software
01:05all different stacks and deployments and
01:07all the good stuff kind of like you just
01:09heard Adrienne talk about and what I
01:11found was that over time you know I went
01:14from being an individual contributor an
01:16engineer writing code during the day and
01:18doing pull requests and working with my
01:20team and planning stories to slowly over
01:23time you know leading those teams and
01:25mostly leading on the engineering side
01:27right helping to make decisions on
01:28deployments helping to do bigger sort of
01:30architectural decision making and then
01:32finally I ended up it almost happened
01:34overnight I had a direct report I all of
01:37a sudden was dealing with a human with
01:39problems and problems that I needed to
01:41find solutions for and there really
01:43wasn't a book that I could go to there
01:46wasn't like an O'Reilly book for general
01:48management for engineering so I was a
01:50little bit lost and I was a little bit
01:51flailing around so I really put together
01:53this talk because I believe that there
01:56are a lot of skills that we develop as
01:58engineers and that we sort of come to
02:00the table with as software engineers
02:02that apply really directly to great ways
02:05to help lead teams and to help to manage
02:07people and then the other reason I have
02:10this talk is that you know as a
02:12consultant you get an opportunity to see
02:14dozens and dozens of companies write
02:16hundreds of individuals and teams that
02:19sort of pass through the doors of
02:21company and within those you always
02:23expect you know the really brilliant
02:25minds from Google that have tons of
02:27funding from some VC you're like oh
02:29that's that company they're gonna be
02:31amazing they're gonna do great things
02:32I'm gonna watch the my Pio in five years
02:34but that's not always actually what
02:37happens and what you start to realize is
02:39the things that make great products the
02:42things that make successful companies in
02:43this world it's not the typical things
02:46you would think colocation tons of money
02:48resources you know enterprise companies
02:50that have data at the wazoo it's
02:53actually really great general management
02:55that great creates teams that create
02:58effective products and those products
02:59that create brilliant companies in this
03:01world so I'm gonna talk a little bit
03:03about that situation and one of the
03:06complications which is again there's not
03:08great resources you know MBA doesn't
03:11really teach you to be a great
03:12engineering manager there aren't a lot
03:14of resources and then on top of that
03:16hiring as we all know is incredibly hard
03:19right high learning great technical
03:21people is hard hiring great managers of
03:24technical people and leaders of
03:25technical teams is infinitely hard and
03:28then it's compounded by this sort of
03:30loyalty problem so this is a
03:33representative software sample from the
03:35San Francisco Bay which is where one of
03:36our main offices is and this actually
03:39though according to studies done by
03:40Deloitte McKinsey this is representative
03:42of a lot of companies universally now
03:45people just don't stick around as much
03:47average tenures are around two to five
03:50years and so we really have this problem
03:53of attrition really really high
03:55attrition at some companies and keeping
03:57talent around long enough to develop
03:58some of these skills and the interesting
04:01thing is one of the statistics that came
04:04out of these studies is that a lot of
04:06the time the reason that these people
04:07are leaving it's not because of lack of
04:10salary or equity or all of these other
04:12things that you would think are
04:13indicators clearly that's for some
04:15people the thing but the thing for
04:17others is that they feel that they don't
04:19have the necessary internal resources to
04:22develop their leadership skills 66% of
04:25people about two-thirds are leaving
04:26because of those reasons and then the
04:29other compounding problem is that we
04:31fundamentally are working really
04:33differently right Adrian's
04:35this morning how the old world used to
04:38work and now we're in this new world
04:39right smaller teams continuous
04:42deployment rapid evolution of software
04:44we have Micro Services and so our
04:46companies are looking like this and
04:48equivalently Conway's law
04:50our teams are changing right so we used
04:54to work way back in the day with teams
04:56that would be like 200 right so you
04:58would have huge engineering teams these
04:59were like 10 Pizza teams 20 Pizza teams
05:01I don't know and we do we now have two
05:04Pizza teams and we have a lot of those
05:06teams and those teams are relatively
05:08independent of one another even though
05:10they're interdependent with one another
05:12but you need managers and leaders within
05:15each one of those teams and so really
05:16being able to level up at the scale that
05:19these companies are now creating teams
05:21it's hard if you don't have the internal
05:24great general management skills with
05:26those teams so there's a gap clearly but
05:31what I find is the interesting thing is
05:32that that gap is not as hard to cross as
05:34we might think it is right Engineers do
05:37have amazing skills and those skills can
05:40be translated over to helping to solve
05:42tricky people problems as well as tricky
05:44software problems and then the last
05:47point I want to make and it's a big one
05:48not everyone needs to manage right so
05:51there is sort of this idea of a
05:54progression of a career of a person in
05:56the world and it's this sort of tiered
05:58progression up to like of a boss but
06:00that's not everyone's dream of what they
06:02want to do with their career so knowing
06:03that recognizing that and creating an
06:05option opportunity for something outside
06:07of that is really important so I'm going
06:10to talk a little bit about my experience
06:12sort of what I went through and I'm
06:14gonna use this as a kicker for this
06:16conversation what I want to do is to
06:18give you guys some tools that came from
06:21some really inspiring individuals and
06:23mentors and companies that we've had an
06:24opportunity to work with but I'll start
06:26off talking a little bit about me and
06:28actually asking you guys to interact a
06:31little bit here I'm curious how many
06:32people here are currently managers of
06:35humans so good majority of you how many
06:39of you are individual contributors you
06:41work on teams maybe you lead those teams
06:43but you don't have any direct reports
06:45okay and then how many of you
06:49our leading teams of teams of teams of
06:52teams so you're sort of like managing
06:53humans that manage humans okay so good
06:56many of you cool so everybody's gonna
06:59have their own story about how they
07:01develops themselves and how they develop
07:02their skills this is to provide some
07:04additional components of insights and
07:07tools that I have found personally to be
07:09really helpful over time so I started
07:11out as really I didn't study computer
07:15science in college I had a friend who
07:17was starting a company at the time it
07:19was called all posters calm it became
07:21art calm but I was the third person on
07:23the team and this is where I learned
07:25development so total baptism by fire I
07:27was just making mistakes constantly but
07:29I was learning really quickly from those
07:31mistakes and over time you know aside
07:34from just rolling up Britney Spears
07:35posters and shipping them out to college
07:37students I developed my engineering
07:39skills I then went on to do some sort of
07:42independent consulting so I got to see
07:43other companies and what the
07:45difficulties and you know code looked
07:47like at other companies so I developed
07:48my skills more broadly and then finally
07:50I landed a carbon five and the thing
07:52that I recognized there was that all
07:53this time that I had spent developing my
07:55skills when I started pair programming
07:58when I started getting mentored by these
08:00folks that had been in the industry far
08:01longer and with much more education than
08:03I had it was like a massive acceleration
08:06of my skill set so it was my opportunity
08:09to see what great leadership and
08:11mentorship meant for my skill
08:13acceleration and it's something that
08:14clearly we kept moving forward with with
08:17agile XP pair programming practices with
08:19ourselves and with other companies and
08:20then over time I started to recognize
08:22wow I kind of liked working with bigger
08:24teams and I liked leading these teams
08:26and I liked working more directly with
08:28the client and the business and then
08:30ultimately because I started getting
08:32interested there and developing skills
08:33there inevitably I was given my first
08:35direct report and the day that that
08:37happened it was the scariest day I was
08:41had no problem playing around and
08:42tinkering with computers in code because
08:43you're like you know it's always
08:45reversible there's there's risk that is
08:47reversible there whereas with a human
08:49you're like oh my gosh it's like
08:50becoming a parent you're like holy crap
08:52I am now responsible for a human who has
08:54complexity that is beyond the scope of
08:57any program that I've ever operated with
08:59so it was a baptism by fire again
09:02because again there's no Stack Overflow
09:04right usually I would be able to go on a
09:06slack channel and ask somebody about
09:08questions if I had them when it came to
09:10the software I was working with with
09:12management
09:13there's no get over flow I'm sorry
09:15there's no Stack Overflow there's no
09:17slack and there's no book to really go
09:19to when you're trying to solve these
09:20problems but the great thing is that
09:23this is what I expected to happen I
09:25figured it's kind of like what happened
09:28when I was developing I started out and
09:30I was flailing a Gumby this is sort of a
09:32rock climbing term where when someone
09:34starts climbing they basically are like
09:36flailing around trying to figure out how
09:38to move the body to just get up this was
09:40me with software so I started out pretty
09:42much as a Gumby make failing a lot
09:44learning a lot but then slowly becoming
09:46stable right individual contributor I
09:48knew how to code I knew how test-driven
09:50development all of these great things
09:51and then ultimately leading teams then
09:54managing humans then I was going to be
09:56managing teams of teams and ultimately
09:58I'd become the boss and you know sitting
10:00in first-class flying around the world
10:01whatever the reality is this is what it
10:04actually felt like it was that
10:07everything fell down to you so how many
10:09of you have experienced this where you
10:11all of a sudden have so many reports
10:13that are directly depending on you to
10:15make decisions to help with their career
10:17growth to help them make decisions who
10:20here is sort of felt that feeling of the
10:22world is kind of falling down on you
10:24right
10:24and it's hard also because it's lonely
10:28down there right having a one-on-one
10:30with someone where you just gave them
10:33some pretty direct candid feedback about
10:35work that they needed to improve upon
10:36and they didn't take it so well and then
10:39now the whole team's going out for beers
10:41and they're like hey come along you're
10:43not gonna go with them to go have beers
10:45right so this can become a very lonely
10:47place and it's infinitely harder as you
10:50sort of go up into tears to find other
10:53people to talk to in a closed
10:55confidential way about these really
10:57tricky human problems that are coming
10:58down at you so this was something that I
11:01struggled with definitely right you know
11:03I'm a people person and I definitely
11:04would like to hash things out in a
11:06verbal way and yet when you are having
11:08human resource problems you can't always
11:12sort of just throw that up in the
11:14internet and ask people for help with it
11:16so what are the ways that I found help
11:18I'm going to go through some of them and
11:20a lot of them were pulled from this
11:21recognizing that you know I did have the
11:24develop the development of skills within
11:26software that I could sort of look to to
11:29find a translation into how I could
11:31start to approach some of these problems
11:33that I was facing when I had these
11:35direct reports right and so it was
11:37really just transitioning from one set
11:38of hard problems that were within code
11:41complex systems
11:42you know the architecture and deployment
11:44of those and they got ever more and more
11:45complex to dealing with human problems
11:48individuals teams and the dynamics of
11:51those teams and then overall sort of the
11:52organizational culture and one thing
11:56here is that I'm gonna try to kind of
11:57compare these two what I see to be sort
11:59of the core hard skills of software
12:01development right open-source
12:03programming continuous integration
12:05test-driven development
12:07pair programming which I've talked a
12:08little bit about already doing code
12:11reviews and then regular refactoring
12:13right so like seeing what's gone well
12:15and then refactoring the things that
12:17aren't going so well and then I'm gonna
12:18translate these over to what are sort of
12:20the core skills for great general
12:23management at companies and these are
12:25skills that I won't say I developed well
12:27but I was capable of having some great
12:30people you know these fantastic
12:32individuals that were mentors and some
12:33amazing clients with great cultures that
12:35I could pull from to sort of learn along
12:38the way so I'm going to share some of
12:39those today and I'm gonna bucket these
12:42into sort of three sort of core needs
12:45that I see in great management at
12:47companies and the first of which and
12:49this is one of the hardest ones for me
12:50which is basic communication right so we
12:53communicate a ton as developers right
12:55we're communicating when we're pair
12:56programming and when we're writing
12:57stories when we're doing iteration
12:59planning meetings but that kind of
13:02tactical communication right where it's
13:04very direct the needs are immediate even
13:06if you're doing sort of long term
13:07planning you're still sort of having a
13:09conversation that's contained and it's
13:11sort of conversational it's very
13:14different when you need to deliver a
13:15difficult message to your direct report
13:19or alternatively deliver a message to
13:22the group right or deliver a message up
13:25right you need to say our group has made
13:28a decision about an impact
13:29thing that we are going to do with the
13:30software and we believe it's the right
13:32thing to do for these reasons so these
13:34are concise arguments that you need to
13:37make and that clarity and precision of
13:39that argument really speaks the world's
13:41for whether or not you're going to get
13:43approval to do that thing and whether or
13:45not your direct report is going to
13:47change their behavior and try to be
13:48doing better and leveling up their own
13:51skills so one person that I'm gonna call
13:54out here who is probably one of the
13:56least known but very successful
13:58investors in Silicon Valley is a fellow
14:00named Michael Dearing
14:01so Michael Darian is kind of a phenom
14:03he's one of those people when he sits up
14:05on stage he just captures the
14:08imagination of really the room that he's
14:09in and so he has a great storied past he
14:12worked at eBay he worked at Walt Disney
14:14he started his own company eventually he
14:17managed to get to Stanford where he
14:18taught and he was credited with having
14:20one of the most popular classes at
14:22Stanford it was like 5% of the people
14:24that got into Stanford oh that 5% 5% got
14:27to go to this class and it was for
14:29entrepreneurs and what he recognized
14:31through that course was that there was a
14:33lot of opportunity to teach general
14:35management to these early-stage
14:36entrepreneurs and so he started to both
14:39invest in them as well as creating a
14:42educational school that he is now
14:44running under Harrison metal I highly
14:47recommend this class if you have an
14:48opportunity to take it it's called
14:50general management one-on-one and he
14:52really brings in a couple of these tools
14:53that I'm gonna run through with you the
14:56first of which comes from another
14:58amazing individual someone who I
15:00considered to be kind of a modern-day
15:01hero barber Minto so has anyone ever
15:04heard of barber mentor the pyramid
15:06principle nobody here has ever worked at
15:08McKinsey it's sort of like a rite of
15:09passage at McKinsey anyhow this is a
15:12technique that's great for developers
15:14because it's really a framework it's a
15:16tool that you can use it's very
15:17actionable and it's procedural and how
15:20to create great arguments so barber mint
15:22is kind of amazing also because she was
15:25part of the first women graduating class
15:27from the Harvard Business School
15:28she does not have an undergraduate
15:30degree but her innate women slept across
15:33the river from the women's campus across
15:34the way to Harvard every day to get
15:36their MBA at Harvard and become the
15:38first graduating female class
15:41so she brought to us this idea of the
15:42pyramid principle and it's really an
15:45amazing way to start to practice
15:46communication both verbal and written to
15:50allow you to get the point across to
15:51people when there's a very confusing
15:53argument to be made right it's kind of
15:55the inverse of what we see in movies
15:57right in movies you've got all of the
16:00details are slowly filtered out to you
16:02to keep you on the edge and suspense you
16:04until the end of the movie but when
16:07you're in a boardroom or when you're in
16:09a tough meeting with people that don't
16:10have a lot of time you want the inverse
16:12right you want to get to the point state
16:14what it is that you think should be the
16:15resolution of that meeting and then
16:18provide the supporting details and just
16:20enough supporting details for everyone
16:22to be able to consciously and cognate
16:23cognitively understand them so this is
16:26something she's got a book highly
16:28recommend that you grab it and read it
16:29but this is the fundamental kind of
16:31underpinnings and it's easy to put into
16:33practice in emails and presentations
16:35that you do another sort of smaller
16:38version of this that I use a lot in
16:40emails when I've got like kind of a
16:41tough amount of information to get
16:43across to a team start with this
16:45situation state it as it is everyone can
16:48kind of come on board because it's it's
16:49a situation that everyone understands is
16:51in is existing and everyone can agree on
16:54it so you got the buy-in of everyone on
16:56what the situation is and then you move
16:58to the complication so maybe this is the
17:01thing that people don't actually know
17:02maybe it's something that's a surprise
17:04maybe it is the complication the pain
17:05point that everyone's feeling and then
17:07the question really falls out of that
17:10pretty immediately and then you can
17:11either work with the group for the
17:12answer or again you can provide your
17:14supporting evidence for the answer so
17:16this helped me a ton when I started have
17:18to construct bigger and heavier
17:19arguments with both my team as well as
17:22to you know either clients are kind of
17:24like the partners that I work with
17:26another thing is goal setting so this is
17:29another tool that is in use quite a bit
17:31in Silicon Valley started it Intel with
17:34Andy Grove and then was brought into
17:36Google by a fellow named John doar has
17:38anyone ever heard of ok ours objectives
17:40and key results cool so a couple of you
17:42have anyone put this into practice at
17:44their company's nice it's not easy right
17:48it's super hard so this is something
17:51that is infinitely hard it
17:54to be really championed by pretty much
17:57the entire leadership team and most of
17:59the rest of the company but it's an
18:00amazingly effective way to go sort of
18:02beyond this whole notion of just KPIs
18:04and it's a way to set something that
18:07really starts at the top from almost
18:08like a mission and a vision of the
18:10company and where the company is going
18:12to each and every level as it goes on
18:14down so it's really each objective hangs
18:16on each other objective and it's a great
18:19way for everyone on down to the
18:21individual to align what it is that
18:23they're doing against the overall
18:25company so I sort of make this akin to
18:27like continuous integration right when
18:29you have everyone in an organization
18:31that is contributing in a way that is
18:33within an in a line to where the company
18:36needs to go it really gives that force
18:38of direction against that acceleration
18:41that Jessica was talking about in her
18:43keynote and it is hard to implement this
18:45but what you're really trying to do is
18:47you're going very broad in the scope of
18:49what you're trying to tackle so you're
18:51thinking big if you are achieving a
18:53hundred percent of your key results
18:55which can oftentimes look like KPIs you
18:58are actually not thinking big enough so
18:59a lot of the reason that they say they
19:01use this at Google is they're trying to
19:03do a lot of really hard things and so
19:04they want to shoot really big and if
19:06they get 70 percent of the way there
19:08they feel like they're tracking really
19:10well another thing is don't have too
19:12many of these right you're trying to be
19:14more about the quality of them than the
19:16quantity of them and then finally these
19:18are frequent right this helps to keep
19:20teams on a continual cadence this is
19:22kind of akin to how we do continuous
19:25deployment right you want to keep
19:26tracking against progress and it really
19:29helps when you have objectives and key
19:31results that you want to see in a more
19:32frequent cadence but that are bigger
19:35than just sort of individual software
19:37deployments the final thing and this is
19:39a biggie is you're never tying this to a
19:41bonus or a compensation and the reason
19:43for that is it kills the culture of
19:46taking big risks at the company so this
19:49is something that difficult to try out
19:51but you can I have definitely had
19:53success in trying that within a smaller
19:55team and it really helps with
19:57individuals when you're having
19:58conversations and your one-on-ones about
20:00you know well what can I do next really
20:02help this team and this company do
20:04better and to make myself be better in
20:07this career
20:07it's great way to sort of hinge okay
20:10well this is the objectives of our team
20:11it aligns to these objectives of the
20:13company and your individual objectives
20:14and key results should be this so it's a
20:17really helpful thing to help to kind of
20:18architect the way in which you can work
20:20with your direct reports so this is
20:23another big chunk of Management and it's
20:26culture and this is something that does
20:28not take care of itself
20:29it doesn't just evolve naturally you
20:32have to pay attention to culture you
20:34have to cultivate it you have to evolve
20:36it you have to think about it you have
20:38to make efforts against it and this is
20:42something that really does have business
20:44benefits in the end so I think a lot of
20:46time people are like well the mission of
20:48the company or what we do is going to
20:49just have the culture net out it's not
20:51true right and culture if it's toxic can
20:54do the same thing to kill a company as a
20:55bad product release and culture is two
20:59great employees as great products are to
21:01customers so keep that in mind and one
21:04of the things that is interesting is
21:05that there actually is a lot of data
21:07that backs this has anyone ever heard of
21:11Google's project Aristotle one person
21:14okay
21:15so this was basically two people cool
21:18Google went and as Google does they took
21:21a huge survey they went to executives
21:24around the world they went to 180 of
21:26their teams across engineering sales
21:28marketing the whole the whole business
21:30and they took quantitative and
21:32qualitative data from these teams to try
21:35to figure out what makes up great teams
21:37that produce fantastic products and
21:39great business results right so they
21:42they were quantifiable and what they
21:43said is a successful team they had
21:45metrics against that and then they took
21:47the metrics against these different
21:48teams and what they found was there were
21:50really five key components and it wasn't
21:52things like colocation and it wasn't
21:54things of you know the smartest people
21:56in the team but the top most thing
21:59there's there's other besides us but
22:01this was in each and every one of the
22:02teams was this notion of psychological
22:04safety and what this really means is
22:06that these teams were capable and given
22:08trust to act autonomously to have shared
22:11accountability within the team and to
22:13have a very learning centric culture
22:15within that team and we've been able to
22:18see the same thing at carbon five so we
22:20have done our own
22:21with the hundreds of companies that
22:22we've had an opportunity to work with
22:24and we've recognized that it really is a
22:26couple companies that we've seen that
22:28have just been outstandingly performant
22:30and it's because we see them operate
22:33with this culture of psychological
22:35safety so has anyone here heard of a
22:37company called stitch fix there's
22:40probably a lot of guys in the audience
22:41but stitch fix is a online personal
22:44styling service so this is one of those
22:45box companies they send you clothing in
22:47a box and you get to pick from you have
22:50a personal stylist that you work with
22:51they take a ton of data around who you
22:53are and what your preferences are and
22:54then they continually work with that
22:56data as you work with your stylist and
22:58as you choose clothing and what they are
23:00doing is really dramatically changing
23:02the way that clothing can be both
23:04delivered to individuals as well as how
23:07they can sort of assess what those
23:08individuals are excited about and then
23:10how do they do it they have eighty data
23:13scientists that work to really take and
23:16craft what fashion is and create
23:19algorithms from that and they also have
23:223,500 stylists that live throughout the
23:24country that are feeding human insights
23:27into those machine learning algorithms
23:29so it's a pretty complex process and
23:32they have been wildly successful so they
23:34have been in existence since 2011 and
23:37within the first three years they were
23:39profitable last fiscal year they
23:41recorded sales of like seven hundred
23:42thirty million dollars so they're
23:43clearly doing well but for me what was
23:45most impressive was yeah that's great
23:48that you're financially doing well but
23:49they have managed to maintain this
23:51culture through this rapid rapid hyper
23:53growth and what we saw with that culture
23:56was this you know they are very much in
23:58the micro services approach right and
24:00actually Randy Shoop who was at you know
24:03some of these he's been brought up a
24:04couple times here but he is now their VP
24:05of engineering and so they have this
24:08micro platform so if individual teams
24:11that act pretty autonomous autonomously
24:13from one another and they are
24:15interdependent so they collaborate with
24:16one another pretty closely but it's
24:17through sort of this API structure and
24:19what they found is that because these
24:22groups are capable of making decisions
24:24rapidly and deploying code continuously
24:27pushing to production they have been
24:30able to deploy experiments try things on
24:32in a very lightweight manner and if bugs
24:34crop up
24:35they have a 24-hour team that's on call
24:37that grabs the bug and if they need help
24:39they grab the team who will come in and
24:41help them out and so what this ends up
24:43happening is an amazing amount of
24:45development velocity they can try
24:47experiments out they can do it in a
24:49lightweight fashion and then they can
24:50move on and this is from the team layer
24:53on up so it really has a ton of business
24:55value and the other thing it has is a
24:58lot of value for the employees they
25:00stick around right because they get to
25:02see their work built on each and every
25:04day so they're getting to see the
25:05results of their efforts continuously
25:07and they don't have to sit around
25:08waiting for someone up on high to say
25:11yes I approve go forward so this is
25:13something that has allowed them to be
25:15amazingly fast quick and successful so
25:19another component of culture is
25:21something that is again critical as a
25:23manager to start to understand more in
25:25depth and this is this notion of
25:26mentoring and I'd like to sort of
25:28consider this because it's what I
25:29experienced is like a 360 degree view of
25:32mentoring there's sort of mentoring to
25:35those that you are having as direct
25:38reports it's also mentoring to people
25:40outside of your company that maybe
25:41you're thinking about hiring in the long
25:43run helping to mentor up their skills
25:45even as they exist outside of your
25:46company it's also sort of peer to peer
25:48mentoring right opening up yourself to
25:51getting you know reception and feedback
25:53from the peers around you many of which
25:54are doing similar things to you and are
25:57interacting with tricky problems like
25:58you are and then finally sort of being a
26:01good mentee finding those people those
26:03individuals that can help you find the
26:06tools and the techniques to help you
26:07become a better and better manager so
26:10I'm going to talk first of all about
26:12this whole notion of kind of pairing
26:15right so we pair program and when we
26:18pair program we oftentimes find a better
26:20resolution to a problem that we have we
26:22used to have a rule at carbon 5 and we
26:25still have it if you are stuck for more
26:27than 15 minutes on a problem grab a pair
26:28and we all know that right the second
26:30you start talking it could be a rubber
26:31duck to start it unlocks a lot of your
26:35thinking right so the same thing
26:36actually can happen when you're dealing
26:38with tricky human problems or
26:39organization problems I what does it
26:42mean to be able to hire more people of
26:44color at this company well why don't you
26:46talk to your mentors in your network to
26:48talk about what they are
26:49within their companies and efforts that
26:51you might be able to try right so
26:53there's sort of three kind of versions
26:54of pairing there's the journeyman
26:55apprentice this is really sharing down
26:57and one of the components of this that
26:59is critical that a lot of people let
27:01sort of slide is the one on one how many
27:03people here do routine one-on-ones you
27:07guys are awesome cool
27:09so I don't have to tell you why it's so
27:10important and it's not just important
27:12for the people that are reporting to you
27:14it's important for you right you often
27:16lose sight when you are madly dashing
27:18around a bunch of different teams on
27:20what's happening on the ground
27:21you're one-on-one as an opportunity to
27:23you to hear directly from your report
27:26what's happening right what kind of
27:27difficulties are they encountering
27:29what's happening within the team
27:30dynamics right so that you can assess
27:32that and continually take actions
27:34against it right
27:35another is sort of this driver navigator
27:38again this is like the peer to peer
27:39again there's no Stack Overflow and it's
27:42really difficult to talk about sensitive
27:44information with others I will highly
27:47advise you to go to does anyone here
27:49know Michael lop he's the VP of
27:51engineering at slack
27:52he has Ranson repos blog some of you
27:54have clearly heard of him he has created
27:56this leadership in slack and it's a
27:58slack community that is fantastic and
28:00it's basically engineering leaders you
28:02can sign up online just google
28:03leadership in slack and you know become
28:07part of the community it's people around
28:08the world I've done face to faces on
28:10this platform where you're literally
28:11talking to someone in Australia they're
28:13having the same problems you are and
28:15it's great because it's very you know
28:16code of conduct is confidential and you
28:19can get some great insights from people
28:20who are also managing big teams and then
28:23finally this apprentice journey man you
28:25know a lot of the people that I'm
28:25talking about in this talk were people
28:27that I worked with on a project but I
28:29would go and have coffee with them and I
28:31always felt really guilty about it I was
28:32like all these people are crazy busy
28:34they don't have time for me but the
28:36amazing thing was is that they were sort
28:38of getting the same thing that I got
28:39when I had my one-on-ones with my direct
28:41reports right they were getting
28:43information outside of their sphere of
28:45knowledge that they could use in their
28:48work right so it's really this it's a
28:50universally advantaged situation when
28:54you can find someone who you know their
28:56experience in life is going to directly
28:57both inspire and help you and what
28:59you're doing but inversely they're also
29:01going to be able to get information
29:02from you that's gonna help them you know
29:04keep up to pace with the crazy amount of
29:07development that's happening around them
29:08so highly recommend you know finding
29:11people that you really have a valuable
29:12relationship with and spending time to
29:15develop those with coffees and lunches
29:16and whatnot and then finally this is one
29:20that seems like well duh
29:21be authentic it's so hard though I mean
29:25as you go through your work in life and
29:26as you go through these trainings and in
29:28these conferences it's almost like your
29:29ability to just be a human gets like
29:31drilled out of you so being a human
29:35bringing your human version of yourself
29:36to work is really critical and there's a
29:39great story by someone I'm gonna talk
29:41about who created a book called radical
29:43candor has anyone heard of Kim Scott she
29:45this is a New York Times best seller got
29:47one person here they're heard of it
29:48I highly recommend reading this and it's
29:50no other reason and it's just this great
29:52of like I just want to put this into
29:55practice because I want to be this
29:56person with the people that I manage and
29:58with Who I am at work so she has a story
30:00she's got again you know storied history
30:02she worked at Google early on she now is
30:05like an executive coach for Twitter and
30:06Qualtrics and Dropbox and all these
30:08other companies and so she's you know
30:10created this book that really is about
30:12how do you be authentic at work and
30:14early on when she was at Google she had
30:17someone who she was managing and you
30:19know this person posed the question to
30:21her you know how can I be the most
30:22successful person at Google how can I
30:23advance my career here and she just sort
30:25of looked at this person who had come
30:27out of like a Harvard MBA and was very
30:28structured she's like you know what can
30:31you just show up as a human ten years
30:33later this guy saw her at some
30:35conference somewhere and he was like
30:36that was the best advice I'd ever gotten
30:38so I think at a manager it's really
30:40important to recognize that it's
30:42important to be human but to also know
30:44that your role here is to actually help
30:47people's career and to help them be
30:49successful not just at this company but
30:51wherever they go in the long run and so
30:53radical candor is again a great tool for
30:56engineers because it has a framework
30:57right there's a way that we can sort of
30:59hang our thinking off of this framework
31:01that can Scott has created and it's this
31:03notion of being able to understand how
31:05much you are caring personally about the
31:08person that is reporting to you but also
31:10challenging them getting them to be a
31:12better and better
31:13you know engineer ways in which they
31:16could be
31:16a better leader ways in which that they
31:18could level up their skills so finding
31:20the balance often times is really hard a
31:22lot of the time because we've been
31:24taught you know through the course of
31:25our lives is you know don't say
31:28something unless you can't it unless
31:30it's something nice right you know these
31:31sort of social constructs that are built
31:33into us from an early age we have to
31:35almost battle that in order for us to
31:38come up with direct challenging feedback
31:40for our reports so that we can help them
31:43to become better because otherwise if we
31:45just sort of her like you know this
31:47person that keeps showing up every day
31:48you know they're on the team they're
31:50doing their work but it's kind of crap
31:51and you know if you you want to say
31:54something to them but it's hard it's
31:55hard to deliver that message because you
31:57know it's going to be difficult for them
31:59to take but if you don't deliver that
32:01message inevitably you're gonna end up
32:03with someone that's not contributing and
32:05someone at some point is gonna be like
32:06we got to get rid of that guy and you
32:08did not do your job along the way to say
32:10hey man here's a couple things that you
32:12could do to help the rest of the team be
32:14better and to help yourself advance your
32:16career so the other component of this is
32:19that this isn't really how it leaves
32:20your mouth Kim Scott says it's not how
32:23it leaves your mouth is how its received
32:25on your direct reports ear it's
32:27important for them to sort of assess you
32:29as well so you can actually give this
32:30and I've done this where you give this
32:32to people and you say hey you know I
32:33know we've been having these one-on-ones
32:35I've been giving you feedback I hope
32:36some of it's been helpful I'm kind of
32:38curious though where do you think I fall
32:40in this spectrum with the advice that
32:41I've been giving you often times you can
32:43think that you're being radically candid
32:45and in fact you're actually being
32:46manipulative so she's got a crepe book
32:49highly recommend checking this out and
32:52it's a quick read another thing is
32:55retrospectives so this is really sort of
32:57like how you refactor your team right we
33:00all know refactoring your codebase is
33:02critical and it's super important we're
33:04factoring your team is just as important
33:06and one of the ways that we do do people
33:09here run reflections retrospectives at
33:10the end of the week cool I'm in good
33:13company you guys are amazing so at the
33:16end of the week you get to see what went
33:17well what didn't go well what can we do
33:19to fix that it's interesting because
33:22when you level that scope up a little
33:23bit to think about teams and team
33:25dynamics you still need to run that same
33:28sort of analysis that same sort of
33:30candor that you bring to those
33:32retrospectives you can actually do sort
33:34of a super retro and one of the things
33:36that we started running a carbon five a
33:38while ago was this notion of a product
33:40artboard right so we really see things
33:42as products now right companies are
33:44doing projects perhaps you know for
33:46infrastructure but it should be in the
33:48service of products or customers and
33:50maybe those customers are developers but
33:52inevitably there are someone on the
33:53other end of the efforts that you are
33:55making that is going to receive what it
33:56is that you're doing and what you're
33:58doing should have value it should be
34:00unique
34:00you should have respects for the other
34:02team members that you're working on and
34:04really lots of other things so we sort
34:06of identified twelve dimensions we
34:07actually worked with some of the team
34:08from the Google Aristotle project on
34:10some of this but it's an analysis that
34:13sort of again a super retro it's kind of
34:14scoping out to say okay team do we all
34:17agree that we know what the unique value
34:19is of what we are doing and if not we
34:22need to sit down and have a talk about
34:23that because those incremental decisions
34:25that are made every day when you're
34:26developing software and when you're
34:28making these decisions about business
34:30logic it needs to be in service of the
34:33greater vision and then the other thing
34:34is if you feel that the team isn't
34:36capturing metrics that you don't know
34:38actually how the work you're doing is
34:40performing in the world
34:41that's a smell right that's the smell of
34:43a product that probably isn't getting
34:45the analysis that it needs to so
34:47completing the start board is very much
34:49kind of a a continual analysis tool and
34:51you do it over time you do it at the
34:52beginning of the project and it really
34:54sort of helps to have some really
34:56difficult conversations around well if
34:58we don't feel that we're having open
35:00discussions we need to address that
35:02right so it's you can fill this out it's
35:05confidential when you fill it out but
35:06then when you see the deltas between you
35:08know some of the team thinks that's your
35:10ability to have open and honest debate
35:12and the other teams are like no I don't
35:14think anyone's listening to me you know
35:16that that's a something that you need to
35:18address as a team so this is sort of a
35:19way to help course-correct teams as
35:21they're moving along on maybe long term
35:23engagements so finally I want to kind of
35:27go back to that whole notion of not
35:29everybody needs to be a manager so how
35:32many people here still get to code or
35:35want to be able to code again cool so I
35:38think it's really important to
35:40understand that there are going to be
35:41people that you manage within your
35:43organism
35:44that are not always going to want to
35:46have to deal with the human component
35:48right and these are hugely valuable and
35:50it's important to consider this because
35:53the running paradigm is that the way
35:55that you advance your career that you
35:57get you know more money that you get
35:58respect and placement at a company and
36:01that you would stay at a company is
36:02through this progression that inevitably
36:03involves management but it's not true
36:06there are two really paths that we're
36:08seeing a lot of companies start to put
36:10into place in a fundamental way and in a
36:12very transparent way across the
36:14organization and one is the original
36:16progression that we've been talking
36:17about this notion of you you know start
36:19out managing yourself advancing your own
36:21career then you're helping others with
36:22their career then you're helping to sort
36:24of like manage against teams and the
36:26coordination of those and then
36:27ultimately you get this bigger sort of
36:2950,000 foot view of the organization
36:30right so that's one sort of scoping up
36:32but the other scoping up is something
36:35that's just as valuable for an
36:36organization can run completely in
36:39parallel and it's just as respected of a
36:41track is that first one and I think
36:43that's the critical component giving
36:45distinct titles roles and
36:46responsibilities for the people that are
36:49really going to be mentoring on the
36:51skill side and on the leadership side of
36:53engineering talent within a company so
36:55having these both be seen in a company
36:58as options for progression of your
37:01career will help keep great talent at
37:04your company and also allow that talent
37:06to do the things that they really want
37:07to do right they become mentors that
37:10level up people from the skill side they
37:12also collaborate directly with you
37:14because when someone expresses an
37:16interest in something like you know I
37:18want to look into security you can show
37:21them directly to someone who can help
37:23manage their progress within levelling
37:26up their skills within security from
37:27someone that's been doing it for the
37:28past five years and they are sort of
37:30seen to be the leadership if you will
37:32the engineering management of that skill
37:34or competency so it fits really nicely
37:37in with this whole notion of electrodes
37:38and squads and guilds and I think it's
37:41incredibly important though to also make
37:43sure that people within the company
37:44understand that this is an option for
37:46their progression and that there's
37:47really sort of this dual path leadership
37:50so that's pretty much the tools that
37:53have helped out me there's lots more I
37:55would love to hear some feedback if
37:57anyone
37:57has any questions I'm definitely open to
38:00hearing if people here have sort of
38:02tricky situations that they are willing
38:03to talk about but thank you feel free to
38:06get in touch I'm Courtney at carbon five
38:07or you can reach out to me on Twitter
38:15thank you very much we have indeed some
38:17questions in the app so I will start
38:21with that I need another hand sorry
38:26there we go I think the last one
38:28actually answered it but I will I will
38:30read it again how to make the transition
38:33from being a software engineer to a
38:35leader manager it seems to be two
38:37opposite paths that you have to chose
38:39between so the sooner the better maybe
38:42yeah so this is one thing that is the
38:45good news is there are a lot of people
38:47that choose to go into management choose
38:51to go into team leadership and they're
38:53curious about it right they're like well
38:54what does that look like can I do that
38:55and it's almost that thing and this is
38:57sort of what happened with me I'm like
38:58well I want to know what that's all
38:59about that seems like a whole nother
39:01sort of nut to crack it doesn't mean
39:03that you're going down a path that has
39:06no return route you absolutely can find
39:10a return ticket back and I think that
39:12there is sort of a critical component to
39:14keeping sort of your outside interest
39:16and really your ancillary work within
39:18the company close to the code so when a
39:21bunch of you raised your hands then
39:23we're like yeah I still touch code I
39:24think it is important you know I
39:26personally like to try and dive into a
39:29project you know once a year if I can
39:31and be able to contribute code it keeps
39:33your skills relevant and also allows you
39:35to go back to being more of on the the
39:39sort of the team side being a direct
39:41contributor on a codebase so there there
39:43really isn't
39:44you're not going to totally sell
39:45yourself and find you know that you're
39:47drifting away from this sort of core
39:49technology contribution that you love
39:51when you start it out I will say though
39:53that sometimes people get pulled in that
39:56direction because they like it you know
39:57they find that they're great at
39:59mentoring others and that there's this
40:01impact that you get when you have a team
40:03of you know ten underneath you where you
40:06can lead them you can help to clarify
40:08and clear the path for them to get great
40:10work done and
40:11you really do get a feeling like you are
40:13contributing in a big way and I think
40:15that the team really starts to respect
40:17and value the work that you're doing
40:18so there's you'll sort of start to see
40:21kind of the benefits on both sides but I
40:23would say I know and have absolutely
40:25talked with people that have been able
40:28to go into management for a certain
40:30portion of their career and then kind of
40:32revert back to being able to contribute
40:34directly into code and or advising on
40:37code thank you
40:39next question do you have any tips on
40:41changing the culture bottom up instead
40:44of top-down oh boy yeah it's tough but
40:49here's the thing is the engineers are
40:52every bit of value that a company has
40:54right so your team's the actual
40:56individuals at your company are what
40:59your company is made of and the culture
41:01is really the thing that keeps them
41:02there so I think you know happily in the
41:06media we are now seeing enough examples
41:08of what happens when the leadership
41:10doesn't pay attention to the culture and
41:12they start to lose talent so I think
41:15from the bottom up you know being a
41:16squeaky wheel taking the initiative like
41:19there's a lot of a lot of conversations
41:22that can happen particularly in slack
41:24where people are complaining like ah you
41:26know if we just did this if we had more
41:27continues to play development you know
41:29we're doing these three-week release
41:31cycles that's crazy why are we doing
41:32this taking action to you know create
41:36sort of a side project or a pilot
41:37project or coming up with an initiative
41:39and finding people to collaborate with
41:40you you know multiple voices carries way
41:42more than just one you know start to
41:45build this from the ground up by doing
41:48it by actually taking the actions
41:50collaborating with individuals coming up
41:52with potential solutions that you can
41:54say hey I think if we operate in this
41:56way if we manage in this way we are
41:58gonna be a better company and I'm gonna
42:00do this initiative can I get buy-in for
42:03it and takes persistence it's definitely
42:05not easy and it's also it takes timing
42:07like figuring out kind of where within
42:09the company you can do this and with
42:11which groups and potentially at what
42:12times is critical particularly if you're
42:15in an enterprise companies there's like
42:16you know cycles that you have to think
42:18about that are financially bound but I
42:20absolutely think that this is happening
42:22and moreover companies respect this
42:24as a company we get so many enterprises
42:28that are like teach us to operate more
42:30flexibly teach us to do experimentation
42:32and you know run more lean if you will
42:34so there they would be huge advocates if
42:38they had someone internally that's like
42:40I want to build out a team in a
42:41different mold and I want to operate
42:43them in a different way so I think you
42:44can do this from the ground up but it
42:46takes you know it takes a little bit of
42:49risk it takes a lot of effort I would
42:51say and you know a little bit of
42:53strategy on how you can kind of operate
42:55within the bigger organization okay
42:57before we go to another more serious
43:00question he has a question that actually
43:02a lot of people have here in this room
43:04what's wrong with not going out for beer
43:06with your team yeah so yeah I pulled
43:09that example of mostly because I totally
43:11go out for beers with my team all the
43:13time I mean yeah yours but I will say
43:16that there's times where you'll
43:17recognize that it's kind of maybe
43:19opportune for you to step out and let
43:21them you know just sort of be peers with
43:23one another you can't I mean it's kind
43:25of like saying there's no such thing as
43:28like an authority figure we're not a
43:30company that does that we're not a
43:31hierarchy we're a whole lock or whatever
43:33it is but if you know I mean if let's
43:36say Robert De Niro to walk in that door
43:37everyone here would start acting
43:39differently right there are people that
43:41just have sort of a different
43:43countenance when they're within a group
43:45and as a manager when you have direct
43:47reports and you're responsible for their
43:49reviews and their progression it's kind
43:52of nice for you to allow the team to
43:53have an opportunity to collaborate
43:55without you so that's sort of what I was
43:57saying without more than anything it
43:59definitely doesn't mean that you
44:00shouldn't go and have fun with your you
44:02know the people that you're working with
44:03and to have again that authentic
44:06relationship with them but it's just you
44:08know timing things all right and now I
44:11will mix two questions together because
44:13I think I kind of get together how do I
44:16get feedback from my team members that
44:18will help me to get better at managing
44:20teams and on that point also how do you
44:24manage introverts oh yeah good one so
44:28the first one I'll take what has been
44:30interesting to me and another reason why
44:32I was like you know I'd be interesting
44:33to have a talk on this and hear other
44:34people's thoughts there's so much
44:36software out there now that's doing like
44:38three
44:3860 feedback and you know software to
44:41help you manager one-on-one so clearly
44:43this is something that companies are
44:44starting to focus their attention on so
44:47I would say there is software to sort of
44:50help get feedback from the team in an
44:52anonymous fashion some of it is a little
44:55bit cheesy to be honest it's like you
44:56know you're doing smiley faces on a
44:58weekly basis through these emails that
44:59are sent to the team but it's really
45:01nice to get a pulse of sort of how your
45:03team is feeling you can also do you know
45:06we do it on a lightweight fashion you
45:07can do Google Forms and just send out
45:09these anonymous form surveys that allow
45:11your team to give you kind of honest
45:13feedback and I think that's really
45:14helpful as a manager so that you know
45:17again to that like radical candor graph
45:18where is my you know my reporting in my
45:22direction really landing with these
45:24people that matter more right like every
45:27opportunity that you have to help give
45:29advice and guidance to the team has
45:31resounding effects for the company and
45:33for the initiatives that you're leading
45:35so making sure that that is landing well
45:37and that it's understood and that it's
45:40receptive or it received is really
45:42critical so I think you know it can be
45:44as simple as just a Google Form that you
45:46send out make sure it's like anonymous
45:47and that they clearly know it is but you
45:49can also look into them at these
45:50software's or service projects or
45:52products that are out there oh yeah what
45:55was the second one how do you manage
45:56introverts oh yeah I think again this is
46:00it can be hard because you're like well
46:02I need to develop a rapport with someone
46:04but I think it's really they're gonna be
46:06introverted so finding the techniques
46:08that really resound with them right if
46:10they are very written in their
46:13communication but not great at the
46:14verbal communication then find ways that
46:17you can sort of interact and communicate
46:18with them and more of a written way you
46:20know maybe they keep sort of a
46:21objectives and key results in a log with
46:24you right maybe they do blog post or
46:26something like that so finding out the
46:28ways that they can represent what it is
46:31that they need the pain points that
46:33they're having is sort of the first
46:34component of that and then I'd say the
46:37second component of that is you know
46:38again sort of being the human
46:40recognizing that the way that you
46:42communicate might not be the way that
46:44everybody else communicates and so again
46:46trying to kind of reach outside of your
46:48knowledge and you know your own biases
46:50to figure out ways that you
46:52can better communicate with this
46:53individual and again whether that's
46:55through you know tools whether that's
46:57through emails whether it's through
46:59written finding out ways that you can
47:02communicate based on their worldview and
47:05where they're coming from and finding
47:06the empathy of sort of what they're
47:08thinking as opposed to what you are
47:10doing with everybody else all right we
47:13have a lot of other questions in here
47:14but I'm sorry we ran out of time thank
47:17you very much for coming to the
47:18questions that are awesome and take a
47:20break
47:21[Applause]
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