00:44JULIE SCHILLER: Hello, everyone.
00:46Welcome to UX
Evenings at Google.
00:49We're so excited you
could join us tonight.
00:50We have three exciting
speakers to talk to you
00:53about different
perspectives about how
00:55to structure a UX team.
00:57But before we begin, I want
to introduce myself and also
01:00UX Evenings at Google so you
can understand our series.
01:06I lead User Experience, Culture,
and Community for Asia-Pacific.
01:10In my role, I work
with our teams
01:12across Singapore, Japan, India,
Australia, and many others,
01:17to think about
how we can improve
01:20the way we create insightful,
innovative, and interesting
01:24user experiences
in our products.
01:27Next, let me tell
you a little bit
01:28about UX Evenings at Google.
01:31This is a Singapore-led
initiative
01:34where we're trying to
connect with innovators
01:36about the field of
user experience.
01:39We invite speakers
from across the region
01:41to talk to us about
different topics,
01:44and create a place
where our community is
01:47able to connect about
user experience,
01:50and also support the
growth of the growing UX
01:52communities in Singapore.
01:55We're really excited tonight
to be joined by three speakers.
01:58We have Mike Holzer
from Google, who
02:00will talk to us about a large
corporate perspective on how
02:03to structure UX teams.
02:06We also have Amy Huang,
coming from Lazada RedMart,
02:09to talk to us about
how she is structuring
02:13teams in her startup.
02:14And finally, we're
going to have Jay Komuda
02:17from Tigerspike-Singapore to
talk about how to structure
02:20UX teams in an agency.
02:22I'm really excited to hand
you guys over to Mike.
02:25He is a well-respected
and loved leader here
02:28at Google, who shares with
us an exciting passion
02:31for user experience,
and will talk to us
02:34a little bit about his
experience over the years.
02:37Now, over to you, Mike.
02:43Could you give us an
introduction to yourself?
02:47My name is Mike Holzer.
02:48And I'm a UX director at Google,
and I lead the payments team.
02:53We're a global team.
02:55We're in seven different sites,
four different time zones,
03:01And we work on everything
from payments experiences
03:04that are within
our Google products
03:06to our own Google
Pay applications
03:08that we have-- a few
different versions, depending
03:10on the country you're in.
03:12And I've been at Google
for 7 and 1/2 years
03:16after I worked at a
bunch of startups,
03:19and spent a bunch
of time at Yahoo.
03:20And before that, I was
in landscape architecture
03:23and industrial design.
03:24So I've tried to cover every
creative field I could.
03:28JULIE SCHILLER: Fantastic.
03:29Well, thank you so much.
03:30And I just want to
mention to the audience,
03:32that if you'd like to have
any questions for Mike,
03:34in the Q&A section you
can add your comments
03:37below in the YouTube section.
03:39And our team will review
and summarize them
03:41for the live session at 5:45.
03:44All right, Mike, can
you describe for us
03:46some of the structures
of different UX teams
03:51I think when I started first
leading teams was at Yahoo,
03:58admittedly, the culture
there was very product-
04:02That meant that we could really
operate a little bit more
04:06of what I would consider to be
an agency model, where it was
04:09a deeply studio like experience
from the designer's standpoint,
04:15where we definitely leveraged
all of the different skill
04:18sets of UXers, from
research to visual design
04:22kinds of strategists,
the whole bucket.
04:25And then when I went
into the startup world,
04:28that's where all
the circumstances
04:30changed, because you're dealing
with a much leaner team.
04:33And you're much more
sort of hand-to-mouth,
04:36sort of fed one resource
at a time, if you're lucky,
04:40just trying to move
the product forward.
04:42And we ran a lot leaner,
mostly design-focused,
04:45a couple of researchers there.
04:47And the designers we had
tend to be a lot more full
04:51stack in terms of writing
code to visual design.
04:56And I think being now at
Google, where, admittedly, we
04:59have the luxury of being able
to invest in specialties,
05:04we get a lot more
horsepower to have strong UX
05:08engineers, and
profound researchers,
05:11and content strategists
that can make
05:14everything sound perfect
and understandable.
05:18I think it does, admittedly, add
some complexity to organizing
05:22a UX team, but it
is always going
05:24to make the product
significantly better.
05:27JULIE SCHILLER: Thank you.
05:28That is a really
interesting point
05:29talking about the
diversity on the teams.
05:32Can you talk a
little bit with us
05:33about what factors influence
how you structure the teams?
05:38MIKE HOLZER: Yeah,
that's actually
05:39one I've spent a lot
of time thinking about,
05:43because it actually
intersects with career growth.
05:46So when you get into
different disciplines--
05:48and we'll just use research,
and content strategy,
05:52and let's say interaction
design as an example--
05:55you are going to
get a better career
05:58growth by reporting
to somebody that
06:01is more experienced
than you in the practice
06:03that you are best at.
06:07Now, that's not categorically
true, so nothing I say here
06:10is a statement, to be clear.
06:13But I have found that when
the population of the practice
06:17is small, having them in
their own organization really
06:21helps them with community,
culture, and career growth.
06:25So for us at Google,
content strategy
06:28is still a growing practice.
06:31We have not enough of them,
like I think most teams feel.
06:36But for me, that
means that they need
06:38to have a strong bond
between themselves to create
06:41not only a consistency of
the way we talk to our users,
06:44but also that career growth
and orientation around how
06:47to get better at their
discipline and their craft.
06:52I also think that at some
point an organization
06:54can get so large, when that
starts to become untenable,
06:58meaning it is harder
and harder to manage
07:02a huge portfolio of products
and deeply understand
07:05any one of those
products to the extent
07:07that you can help give guidance
to somebody on your team.
07:10So I do philosophically
think that there
07:13are points where an UX
organization literally
07:20And I am personally
of the belief
07:22that once it gets too big, it is
better to start breaking it up,
07:26and you can debate whether or
not you report into a larger UX
07:31organization, or report up
into product or engineering,
07:34or pick your function here.
07:37But to me, it's all about
portfolio management.
07:41And can a leader
retain enough fidelity
07:46on the portfolio to really
provide great feedback
07:50and growth to the team based
on that product portfolio?
07:53And if the answer is no,
then I am of the belief
07:55that you split up the team.
07:59JULIE SCHILLER:
That's fantastic.
08:00And as you're thinking about
the career growth for people,
08:02I like that you're thinking
about like though different
08:05ways they can grow of
the many different skills
08:07that UXers need to grow
inside their careers.
08:09I think that's a
wonderful, wonderful point.
08:15I'd love to hear a bit about
the history of your work,
08:19thinking about what
kind of backgrounds
08:22of wins and also mistakes
you might have made.
08:24Would you be willing to share
with us some of the mistakes
08:27that you've made in
the past and what
08:29you might want to do differently
now with your experience?
08:33MIKE HOLZER: Of course.
08:34I'm always happy
to admit mistakes.
08:35I have a lot of them.
08:37I think just to parlay it
from the last question,
08:45one thing I guess I just
maybe I wanted to add,
08:47but I think it goes into
wins and mistakes, which
08:50is that there are
different-- people
08:56are highly individualistic.
08:58And people want growth
in different ways.
09:01Some people want very
disciplined growth,
09:03and they want to continue
to hone a specialty.
09:06Other people want to
spread out and start
09:10to learn other functions.
09:11I think there's no
shortage of UXers
09:14that tend to get interested
in product management,
09:17So I know a lot of--
09:18I mean, I myself happen to
report to technically a product
09:22He's more of a GM
role, but I personally
09:26glean a lot of growth
from that in terms
09:28of him bringing a different
skill set to what I learn from.
09:32So I found the same thing
with a lot of UXers.
09:34No matter where you are in
the sort of level structure
09:37is, who do you
want to learn from?
09:40And so that's always
the first question
09:42I ask anybody that I'm ever
managing, or meeting, or having
09:45a mentoring
conversation, which is
09:46like what do you want to learn,
and orient it around that.
09:52And so I think, to go
into some of my mistakes,
09:54I think that's one of the
things that took me a long time
09:56to learn was, how
do I better organize
10:01people's scope and even
reporting structure
10:04to have them work for
and on something that is
10:07going to stretch
them in the direction
10:09they're looking to grow?
10:11And I think if you don't have
that career-based conversation
10:14with them so that both of you
are clear on what they want
10:18to get better at, I think there
could be a mismatch in terms
10:22of you might think that
you're growing them in one way
10:24but it's actually something
they're not interested in.
10:29And so I always
like to have those
10:30what do you want to
grow in conversations,
10:32and then I think that
definitely influences
10:34how I think about structure
in UX organizations.
10:38It took me a long time
to figure that out.
10:40So I'd definitely put
that in my mistake bucket.
10:45I think one of the other
things I would share
10:46is my general philosophy
with running organizations is
10:51to experiment and try things.
10:55I believe that the
constraints of an organization
11:01They're market-based.
11:02They're product-based,
and all of these things
11:08An organization
is organic, and it
11:10will change whether
your partners change,
11:12the market changes, and you
always have to be adaptable.
11:16And so I'm always making micro
changes to my organization,
11:20whether that's changing the
scope of what someone's working
11:23on, to moving
somebody over here,
11:25to see if I can always optimize
for the situation that's
11:28happening right now.
11:31Now, that's a
double-edged sword.
11:32You have to be careful.
11:33Too much change management
can cause too much chaos, make
11:37people really uncomfortable.
11:39So I spend a lot
of time making sure
11:41that I'm making the
right moves and then
11:43trying to see if it
actually made things better.
11:45And I promise you, I've
made plenty of mistakes.
11:48JULIE SCHILLER: Well, thanks
for being honest about that.
11:50And also, I really hearing
about these specific examples.
11:53Because I think as
people want to try
11:54different kinds of
experiments it's always
11:56interesting to think about,
what are those dimensions
11:58that they're able
to experiment on?
12:01Getting to know that
particular environment
12:03and provide that opportunity
at the right time
12:05is a great example of that.
12:09I know you've been
doing this a long time.
12:11You've seen a lot of
different situations come up.
12:13I was wondering
if you could offer
12:15some advice to other
leaders in UX organizations.
12:18What advice would you give them?
12:21MIKE HOLZER: I think I'll
follow on a similar tone
12:24that I've been trying to share
in terms of adaptability.
12:27The mistake that I've seen
leaders make, myself included,
12:32is to take past wins and
try to repeat that recipe.
12:38And I think that oftentimes what
has worked on one team, or one
12:42organization, or one
product won't necessarily
12:45work on the rest of them.
12:47So I think that, at least
for me whenever I've joined--
12:50I've built teams,
and I've also joined
12:52organizations that existed, and
I was the new leader in town.
12:56In both situations,
I always spend--
12:59there's a lot of books
written about it,
13:01but you spend the first
90 days assessing.
13:07Understand, and then start
slowly applying changes
13:13And I think it's not
a I did this here, I'm
13:16going to bring this over,
I'm going to do that there.
13:18I've rarely seen that
be terribly effective.
13:21I think that you learned
a lot, and you always
13:22want to take those
lessons with you,
13:24but that doesn't mean that
that recipe will work directly
13:28JULIE SCHILLER: And it's
a really nice point.
13:31I also know there's
a lot of UXers
13:32working inside of large
teams, teams big and small
13:37But particularly
for those that might
13:38work on a team like
yours, a large UX
13:40team, what advice would
you give the team members?
13:44MIKE HOLZER: I think I have
two thoughts on this that I
13:47try to share with people.
13:49The first one is to recognize
that a large organization is
13:56And what I mean
by that is, there
13:58is a lot of passion
and excitement
14:05towards what we're building,
and that creates this flywheel
14:08within the
organization that will
14:12move without you or with you.
14:16And I always
encourage people that
14:18are part of large organizations
to make sure and assess
14:21their own well-being, their
happiness, their health,
14:24and to put up the right
boundaries for themselves.
14:28And the reason I say
that is because I
14:30think that the machine
is indiscriminate.
14:34It will chew you up, spit
you out the other side,
14:38and it will take up as
much work as you possibly
14:40can contribute to it.
14:42And it's not personal.
14:43It's just because
you're surrounded
14:45by a bunch of other people that
are super passionate about what
14:49And so I'm always
encouraging people
14:51that are part of
large organizations
14:52to recognize that the larger
organization is something
14:55of itself and to watch out
for your own well-being.
15:02And I don't mean from a
selfish career perspective.
15:05It's more like a watch out
for your own mental health,
15:10well-being, and
these things that
15:11are going to keep you
performing at your best level.
15:15The second thing I think
larger organizations tend to do
15:18is there is inevitable
overlapping of scopes as soon
15:22as you get into a
big organization.
15:24So do your best
to be territorial.
15:28I think did you have an
opportunity when you have
15:30overlapping scope, you can
either partner and learn
15:33from other great
people, or you can
15:37let the territorial nature--
15:39that we all have,
don't get me wrong--
15:41take the best of you.
15:42And that can cause you a lot
of undue stress, I think.
15:46Whereas, there's actually
a really strong partnership
15:49opportunity that often you will
grow in, and have more fun,
15:51and work with great people.
15:53JULIE SCHILLER: That
is a really nice point.
15:55I think especially as you
start to see the scope that we
15:58There's so much for us to be
able to share with each other
16:01and really be open to
that collaboration.
16:03And that sounds great.
16:05Thank you so much, Mike, for
sharing your experience with us
16:08and these thoughtful ideas about
adaptability and collaboration.
16:11Is there any other
last pieces of advice
16:14you might want to just
leave the crowd with?
16:18MIKE HOLZER: Keep
doing the good work.
16:20I still think that UX is a
growing function overall,
16:23especially in technology.
16:26I think that there's
a spectrum of design
16:33driven and engineering driven.
16:35And my personal perspective
is that they are all great.
16:41They all have pros and cons.
16:44I personally drive towards
UX facilitating conversations
16:49about great experiences.
16:51And it doesn't really
matter how these ideas
16:54and how these things
are driven to the extent
16:57that we can help curate
the conversation to create
17:01the right user experiences.
17:03That, to me, is our job.
17:06JULIE SCHILLER: I
really like that.
17:09We're hoping that those who
are listening, that this
17:13Thank you for sharing your
thoughts and wisdom with us,
17:17You're so late in the US, and
so we appreciate your time
17:20and thoughts for that.
17:21We will have a live Q&A
later with all the speakers.
17:24So if you have any comments
or suggestions for that,
17:26please add them in
the comments below.
17:29So thank you so much.
17:30We appreciate your time, Mike.
17:31MIKE HOLZER: I appreciate it.
17:34JULIE SCHILLER: And
now, I want to move us
17:36on to the next
speaker in our series.
17:38Her name is Amy
Huang, and she is
17:40the EVP of User Experience
at RedMart Lazada.
17:44She's worked across
several companies,
17:46and her philosophy is often
around taking ownership
17:48and helping people demonstrate
their own expertise.
17:51We're really excited to have
her join us here, and let
17:54me turn it over to Amy.
17:57AMY HUANG: Hello, everyone.
17:58My name is Amy
Huang, and I'm here
17:59to tell you about how I
structure user experience
18:02teams to do more with less.
18:04I'll start with a little
bit of background about me.
18:07I'm from San Francisco.
18:09I have an academic background
in the science behind user
18:11experience, and I've been
doing user experience
18:14for about 20 years in the San
Francisco Bay Area mostly.
18:18So I have been leading UX
teams, large and small teams,
18:23And in 2017, I moved to
Singapore to join RedMart.
18:28I've really enjoyed getting to
know Singapore, and Southeast
18:31Asia, and the unique
user needs and problems
18:33that we have to solve here.
18:37So I always kick things
off with objectives.
18:40So let's talk about
what I want to achieve
18:41as an user experience leader.
18:43First, I want to
build great products.
18:46Second, I want to
motivate and cultivate
18:48my awesome team of
designers and researchers.
18:51And third, I want to make
sure that the customer has
18:56the best end-to-end user
experience across the customer
19:00So when you ask me about
structuring my team,
19:04there are a few questions
that I then think through.
19:07So to build great products,
the first question
19:09is, well, what's the work
that needs to get done?
19:12As a design leader,
my primary task
19:14is to make sure that the
design gets delivered.
19:17Either I or somebody
on my team needs
19:19to design something
so that it can get
19:21built into that great product.
19:24Once we figure out how to
design what we need to design,
19:29then we want to do it as
efficiently as possible.
19:32So that's where tools
and processes come in.
19:36Throughout the process of
designing and designing
19:40efficiently, I want my
designers and my researchers
19:43to be motivated and growing.
19:47So I ask myself, well, what are
the skill sets that they have?
19:51And what do they need?
19:52What do they need in
order to grow and become
19:56For this last objective,
it's a little bit tricky.
19:59Because I believe that the
end-to-end user journey
20:02belongs to everybody
at the company.
20:04So it's not just my domain to
ensure this best experience.
20:09Everything that anybody
does at a company
20:13can influence the
end user experience.
20:17So when I think about
how to structure my team,
20:20the question is
really, well, how
20:21does the rest of
the organization
20:23work so that I make sure that
we are well-positioned to align
20:27and collaborate with
the right people
20:30so that we can smooth out
that end-to-end journey?
20:33So with this framework,
let's talk about startups.
20:37They have big dreams, and
that's why they're really fun.
20:41It's really exciting
to be at a startup.
20:43But what comes with
that excitement
20:44is a number of challenges.
20:47So let's just go
through some of these.
20:50You're never going to
have enough people to get
20:52all the work done
that you want to do.
20:53And in my experience
at startups,
20:56there is always more
than I could be doing,
20:58and there's always more
that my team could be doing.
21:02There's just never enough.
21:03Even if we're hiring
and recruiting,
21:06the process of
recruiting takes time.
21:08And it takes a little while
to get somebody onboarded
21:11And during that time, the
work just keeps coming.
21:16Tools and processes-- as
user experience people,
21:19we believe in a certain
amount of process.
21:22We want to have a
cycle of user research
21:25that validates our design
so that we can innovate.
21:28And sometimes at
a startup, process
21:30is really not that popular.
21:34The idea of startup is not
to be encumbered often.
21:38They don't like to be bogged
down by this idea of process.
21:41Similarly, a lot of the
tools that we use in design--
21:44and there are a
lot of them-- a lot
21:46of them come with these
big enterprise licenses,
21:48or maybe there's
a bunch of tools
21:50and they're changing
all the time.
21:52And at a startup,
you don't usually
21:54have the budget to get all
of the tools that you need.
21:59Skill sets-- when you
have a small team,
22:02you're really relying on every
individual member of your team
22:05to be more of a
generalist than they might
22:07have been at a larger company.
22:09And nobody has all the skills.
22:10I don't even have all the
skills I need for this job,
22:13but that's part
of the challenge.
22:16So now the tricky part.
22:18The larger organization
doesn't always
22:21know how to do user experience.
22:23This is why we're the experts.
22:25We're here to help facilitate
a user-centric process.
22:30But when you're working
in a fast company
22:33with a lot of things
happening, this
22:35can be disruptive in the context
of all these other constraints.
22:41So what you need to
focus on is making sure
22:43that the intentions are good.
22:45Everybody should
agree that we care
22:47about building high-quality
products with the customer
22:51in mind, and that
we focus on customer
22:54centricity of everything.
22:56Beyond that, then it's really
up to the user experience team
23:01to help educate and
get everybody on board
23:03with how to do that.
23:06So given all those
constraints, what do we do?
23:09Well, we do more with less.
23:11I'm not here to give you
a magical checklist that's
23:14going to solve all
of these problems,
23:16but I'm here to encourage
you to take a growth
23:18mindset for leading UX.
23:21There is never going
to be a perfect team
23:23or a perfect designer.
23:24You can't really focus on
an individual set of skills.
23:27But what you can do
is you can create
23:29the best combination of
people and the skills
23:32they bring to the table.
23:34And then you give each
of them ownership.
23:36You give them the space to own
something and try something
23:40as part of that ownership,
and then they're
23:42growing and evolving
from that process.
23:45And then you
prioritize like crazy.
23:48So sometimes in design, we like
to design a whole big thing
23:53But we've learned definitely
in product development,
23:56and also just from watching
how customers or users adapt
24:00to new things, it's usually
better to do it gradually.
24:03So the idea here is you do just
enough to learn and figure out
24:08what you need to do next, and
then you do that next thing,
24:10and then you learn again.
24:12And the same thing
goes for process.
24:14You do it gradually, and
you iterate constantly.
24:17So these are my overall
principles for leading design
24:22Let me talk a little bit
about how I structure
24:24my team within that context.
24:26So I have three general points
for designing my design team.
24:33First, give each designer
ownership over a domain.
24:38This is fairly common
I think in product
24:41companies, large or small.
24:43Where once a designer
has designed something,
24:45they keep designing
related things,
24:47because they can build
on their knowledge.
24:50It works really, really nicely
with the agile methodology
24:53and this idea of a
cross-functional squad.
24:58There are a lot of names for
it, but squad, sprint team,
25:01The idea is you have a product
owner, a designer, developers,
25:05all the people that you need
to build something and solve
25:08and meet some product need.
25:10You give them a
shared set of KPIs,
25:12and you give them the
autonomy to do whatever
25:14they need to do on their roadmap
in order to meet those KPIs.
25:17And by having a design
owner within this domain,
25:20you give them the chance to
really lead user experience
25:24within that small and
cross-functional group.
25:27And then you can
distribute your designers
25:29among the different domains
or the different squads
25:32that you have at your
company so that you
25:34can balance their skill
sets and give them a chance
25:37to grow in different ways.
25:39So I'm going to give you
two very quick examples
25:42from my last two startups.
25:44So Blurb is a startup
in San Francisco
25:47that allows creative people--
25:50artists, or photographers,
or whatever--
25:52to create these
books, physical books.
25:55They can make these
books out of their work,
25:57and then they can sell
them online to showcase
25:59and show off their talents.
26:02The way that we structured
our squads at Blurb,
26:05we called them product
teams, and we based them
26:07on the author journey.
26:08So there was one product team
focused on the consideration
26:13There was another product team
focused on the book creation
26:16process, the actual definition
of all the things, the details,
26:19that go into making this book.
26:21And then once the
book was created,
26:23we had a third group,
or a third set of groups
26:27actually, that focused on
the selling and distribution
26:30getting the book up on Amazon,
setting pricing and profit,
26:34that kind of thing, marketing
the book and monitoring sales.
26:38So basically we grouped things.
26:40We group the teams
by the objective,
26:43which was getting the
customer through that phase
26:46We have quite a different
approach at RedMart.
26:49RedMart is a Singapore-focused
online grocery delivery
26:54We used to be a
standalone startup,
26:55and I'm going to tell you
about what we did then.
26:58We have since
merged into Lazada.
27:00We're part of a much
larger company now.
27:02So there were red
teams at RedMart
27:05when it was a
standalone startup,
27:07and we focused our
red teams on all
27:09of the different
technologies that we
27:11had behind the scenes to power
this online grocery delivery
27:16So we had one red team that
focused on the consumer
27:19experience, the app and
website, and then we
27:21had other red teams for each
of the other user types.
27:24So one red team for sellers,
one red team for warehouse,
27:28and then delivery, et cetera.
27:29We had quite a few
different red teams.
27:31So you can kind of see
there's a few different ways
27:33to do this domain distribution.
27:36But the point being
the kind of designer
27:38that you assign to
each of these groups
27:40is going to be a little bit
different based on their skill
27:42set and their needs,
and that gives you
27:44the chance to balance skills.
27:46And, of course, then
you have the benefit,
27:48that when a designer
owns something,
27:50they can really go
deep on the user needs,
27:53and they can be strategic about
driving a user-centered process
27:56to inform that roadmap.
27:58And then the great thing I
love about the agile process is
28:01that, once you have a designer
assigned into their squad,
28:04they don't need you
to manage their time,
28:07because they have a built-in
task management process,
28:11schedule management process.
28:13They basically work
directly with their squads
28:15to define what needs to
be done by which sprint.
28:19So that makes-- that frees up
my time to do other things.
28:25So now we know roughly how
the designers are distributed,
28:30the challenge we have is that--
28:32I believe very strongly
that UX design does not
28:34exist without user research.
28:37But because designers are
quite busy on their scrum
28:40teams or their sprint teams,
the active planning the research
28:44is really difficult, especially
when you're setting it
28:46up for the first time.
28:48So for the last
few companies, I've
28:49hired dedicated researchers
for this reason.
28:53So I hire one researcher
to set up not--
28:58the very first
thing that they do
29:00is set up one user
research study.
29:03And they go through
all the steps
29:04they need in order to do that.
29:06And it can be scrappy,
and that's totally OK.
29:09They have to call
all the participants.
29:11They have to figure out
how to record the session.
29:14They have to figure
out how to pay people.
29:16And then in Southeast Asia,
it's even more complicated,
29:19because then there's all the
nuances around translation.
29:22So all of these details are
quite difficult to manage.
29:24And all of that is before
you even actually get
29:26to have that meaningful,
informative conversation
29:32So I asked the researcher to
do this once and run one study.
29:37Then I asked the researcher
to do it a second time.
29:40And then by the third
and fourth time,
29:42we've worked through
a process and been
29:44able to optimize it in such
a way that it's repeatable.
29:47And the goal is to have
a regular research cycle.
29:51We're doing it monthly now.
29:53So we have a research
study every month.
29:55And what that means is that
the product teams can now
29:57plan in advance for
their research needs.
30:01And then it also means that you
can collect overarching data
30:05from study to study so
that you can flesh out
30:09your personas gradually instead
of having to have a big persona
30:13Again, it's quick and dirty,
but it's doing more with less.
30:17So during this
process, the designers
30:19are involved as the
owners of their domains
30:22of coordinating the research.
30:23So they're coordinating
between the product owner
30:25and the researcher to make
sure that the research
30:28objectives are aligned, and that
we know what our insights are,
30:32and what to do about it.
30:33And over time, you can
develop processes to be
30:36more efficient about this.
30:38So we have things like a
hypothesis backlog and an issue
30:42tracker, which basically means
we have a list of questions
30:45of what we want to know,
and we have a list of issues
30:47that we know we want to fix.
30:48And those questions
and those issues
30:50go into research, go
into our research plan,
30:53and they go into
our product backlog.
30:55So that way, it's kind of
constantly feeding itself.
30:59In addition, I encourage
my user researchers
31:02to do their own
usability testing
31:04for the specific
small tactical things.
31:06So this is like if you have
two versions of a visual design
31:09and you're not sure
which one's clearer,
31:11it's not worth waiting for the
end of the month to do that.
31:15You need to be as
nimble as possible.
31:17So instead, we have a tool.
31:18We use a remote unmoderated
testing platform.
31:21In the US, I use
usertesting.com.
31:24In Singapore and
Southeast Asia, I
31:26use UXArmy, which is
just really great.
31:30And it's really good.
31:31You send out, you test
out into the world.
31:33And then you come
back, and you have
31:3515 videos where you
can actually see
31:38whether your study, your
product, worked or not.
31:43Now, of course, if you
don't have a tool like this,
31:45then you can conduct your
quick and dirty research
31:48and rely on the kindness
of your colleagues.
31:51I try to go for the least
biased people in the company,
31:54and those are usually
people like finance--
31:56somebody who's
not too encumbered
31:58by the product development
process or the constraints
32:02And of course, the other
benefit of designers conducting
32:06a lot of their own validation
is that it can free up
32:09the researcher in
their monthly cycle
32:11to do a lot of the
bigger initiatives.
32:14One of the great wins that I've
had on my user research teams
32:18is sometimes we actually
have the business coming
32:20to ask us to do user
research on something that
32:22has nothing to do with design,
or product, or technology
32:26And to me, that's a great win.
32:27Because what that
means is that we're
32:29training the overall company
to be a little bit more UX-y.
32:35So then now we have designers.
32:37We have researchers.
32:38We know what they're doing.
32:39This is my approach
to structuring it
32:42so that we can be as
efficient as possible.
32:44So first, I really think
it's important to have
32:46one centralized user
experience team.
32:49And in a startup with a small
team, this is quite easy to do.
32:52I know I just went on
and on about squads
32:54and how important
it is for designers
32:55to be associated with
squads, but I think
32:58they can belong to both teams.
33:00So I think of it as a loan.
33:02The designers are
part of the squad.
33:04They work closely with them.
33:06They have the same
KPIs, but they still
33:08sit with me and the
rest of the team.
33:11And the designers
still sit together
33:13and work together as a team.
33:16And that's important, because of
the communication part of this.
33:19We have constant communication
between designers.
33:22We have regular
weekly reviews where
33:25we're designing the-- we're
reviewing each other's work
33:27no matter how far along it is.
33:29It doesn't have to be done.
33:30It's just about sharing.
33:32And this is to inform each
other and also to get feedback.
33:36One of the challenges of being
a small team and owning a domain
33:39is that you don't often get
to work with another designer
33:42on the same project.
33:44So this is meant to
allow for the designers
33:47to have that collaboration.
33:49And also, it creates
small moments
33:51of mentorship between them.
33:53And it doesn't have to just
be during the weekly meeting.
33:55It can also be an
ongoing conversation
33:57that we have in our
team chat channel.
34:01The hard part comes
with everything else.
34:04So as we know, there's
a lot of other stuff
34:06that happens on an
user experience team
34:09to be efficient, things
like design systems,
34:15tracking industry trends.
34:16There's a lot of
other things that I
34:18think get lumped now loosely
into design ops nowadays.
34:22And we don't have the
luxury on a very small team
34:27to allocate people
specifically for these things.
34:30But what we need to do instead
is we just prioritize them,
34:33and then we divide and conquer.
34:36Each person will
choose something
34:39to own or to facilitate.
34:41So we know that we
need a design system.
34:44There's no way we can be
efficient without one.
34:46It's super important.
34:47So we take the time to
set up that design system.
34:50One person leads that.
34:52And then everybody shares
the task of maintaining it.
34:57Now, when new work
comes in that doesn't
34:59fit into my perfect
little structure,
35:01there are two things I do.
35:03One is I just ask
if anybody has time.
35:05And if they have the time and
they want to build a skill,
35:08great, they can try.
35:10For example, I had
a new hire recently
35:12who designed an app
icon specifically
35:16for a holiday season.
35:18This designer never had any
experience designing icons,
35:23The other thing we do, if you
can't actually get to the work,
35:27or if we can't actually
do all of the work,
35:28is we have a consulting process.
35:30So I, or one of the
designers, or researchers
35:33will meet with whoever
is asking for this work.
35:35We'll talk to them
about what they need.
35:37We'll give them tips on
how we would approach it.
35:40And then we'll set up time
for them to come back to us
35:45with what they are trying to do.
35:47And we'll review it
and give them feedback.
35:50So what they end
up doing might not
35:51be as thorough as what
we would have done,
35:53but it keeps us from
being the bottleneck.
35:55And it's also slowly
training everybody else
35:57in the organization to be
a little bit more UX-y.
36:02So I've just rattle
off a bunch of tips.
36:04But just to summarize, the
way I approach leading user
36:08experience in startups is
to have a growth mindset,
36:10prioritize like crazy,
and do things gradually.
36:13And then I structure my
teams for ownership, everyone
36:17doing research, and then just
having a general collaborative
36:21and communicative structure.
36:23And these are the tips
that I follow every day
36:26so that I can build
great products,
36:28motivate and cultivate
my awesome team,
36:31and ensure that the
end-to-end user journey is
36:34as seamless as possible.
36:36Thank you very much.
36:38Stay safe, everyone.
36:40JULIE SCHILLER:
Thank you so much
36:41for that thoughtful talk, Amy.
36:43We're really excited to
hear more about it later
36:45in the question and answer.
36:47Now, I'm excited to share
with you guys our last talk
36:50of the evening from Jay Komuda.
36:53Jay is the head of experience
design at Tigerspike-Singapore.
36:57He's supported numerous
projects with global partners
36:59across APAC and
Europe, and he's also
37:02a very strong defender of the
user and human-centered design
37:08His work has been seen
in companies you probably
37:11have been familiar with--
37:12Softbank, Nestle, Singapore
Airlines, and more.
37:15And in his spare time,
he's an aspiring pilot
37:18who loves the outdoors, bike
packing, contemporary art,
37:23Please join me in
welcoming Jay Komuda.
37:29My name is Jay Komuda,
and I'm a head of design
37:32with Tigerspike-Singapore.
37:34Tigerspike is an
experience design
37:36and digital
transformation company.
37:39We originate from Australia.
37:42Nowadays, we are present
across 10 different geographies
37:48And since 2017, we are a
part of Concentric's family.
37:53So during today's
session, I'm supposed
37:55to be speaking about structuring
experience design teams.
38:00When talking about design
teams and running them,
38:03their structure is just
one of the elements.
38:06There is a very important
component of leadership
38:09as well as
organizational culture.
38:12So during the next
couple of minutes,
38:14I will share my experience
around hiring designers,
38:18about setting objectives
for your design team,
38:22as well as priorities
and daily activities
38:25that you normally run.
38:27I will speak a little
bit about the culture
38:29within the organization
itself as well as beyond it.
38:34Apparently, there
is no single formula
38:36in order to ensure a
success of a design team.
38:40There are a number
of components that
38:42needs to function in
harmony, and it all
38:44starts from an individual.
38:48As you know, each
and every one of us
38:50have own personal and
professional goals
38:55There is, of course, a
component of our origins.
38:59But here, we need to gather
together and work as a team.
39:04We need to define and agree
upon a common goal and objective
39:08for ourselves and
support each other
39:11on our journey towards it.
39:15Here comes the
role of leadership
39:17within the organization.
39:18A great leader not
only can recognize
39:21individuals' aspirations
and strengths, as well
39:25as shortcomings that
we need to work on,
39:29but also can set a vision
and define a trajectory
39:32for the whole team
and the organization.
39:35And getting your team right
is the most important element
39:42You need to find the
right people for the job
39:44and hire for the
skills that you miss
39:47or capabilities that this
particular project would
39:52So when you
interview candidates,
39:54please do interview with
real scenarios in mind.
39:57You can test them against
real-life scenarios.
40:00You can test them against
particular attitudes
40:03of your stakeholders.
40:06And, of course, as we are
in the agency environment,
40:09storytelling is key.
40:11There would be a lot of
stakeholders conversation.
40:13There would be decks to make.
40:16There would be sales
speeches to cover.
40:18We need to ensure that
people that we bring on board
40:21can be comfortable
within this context.
40:25And at the very
end, one last thing
40:28that I need to add
and emphasize on,
40:30there is no space for
ego-driven individuals.
40:34We shall gel well, after all,
and work as one team together.
40:41Of course, the structure
itself is important.
40:43There are many ways
to go about it.
40:47But what is more important for
you when running a design team
40:51is your idea how
you can scale it
40:53and how you can grow
your team moving forward.
40:57We need to be mindful that
within the design agency
41:01environment, we may experience
an influx of new assignments
41:05and influx of projects.
41:07And therefore, we need to be
very much prepared in order
41:12As a head of design or as a
person who runs a design team,
41:17you need to be mindful
you are not going
41:18to cover everything yourself.
41:21You need to have your
supporting team members
41:24that can cover the most critical
areas of design discipline
41:30We need to be mindful that
great design requires space.
41:34And the role of a leader or a
role of a head of discipline
41:38is to nurture and
empower your team,
41:42enable everyone's
professional growth.
41:45Another aspect of your
job is related to people.
41:49People matters,
and there will be
41:50a lot of tasks
related to ensuring
41:53that your team is
moving forward,
41:56either personally
or professionally.
42:00As a head of
discipline, you need
42:02to conduct regular one-on-ones.
42:04There will be 360 evaluations
with the constructive feedback
42:08that you need to
give, as well as you
42:10need to plan one's
professional development plan,
42:14and empower them throughout
their professional journey.
42:19Of course, yourself, you
need to master design ops.
42:23There will be
plenty of admin work
42:26to do around your
environment, around your tools
42:30and ensuring its
consistency, as well as
42:35ensuring efficient
process, creating
42:37repositories of resources.
42:42And let me remind you at the
very end, think about scaling
42:47The sooner you do, the better.
42:50At the very end
of this section, I
42:52would like to mention rituals
that designers care about.
42:56They are very much a vital
part of all design teams,
43:01no matter which
company we work for,
43:05whether they are weekly kickoff
meetings or regular project
43:10There can be design critique, or
brainstorming sessions, or just
43:15designer lunches where we share
our findings and discoveries
43:19or speak about current
industry trends.
43:24What is important from the
organization point of view,
43:26though, is regular
knowledge sharing sessions,
43:30because these contribute to
overall understanding of design
43:34practice across
the organization.
43:37And on top of that, they
motivate team members
43:41and keep them together.
43:44We all know that
people that we hire,
43:46their capabilities
and skill sets.
43:50The team structure we establish
within the organization,
43:54rituals or activities that
we run, and processes that we
43:59streamline, as well
as tools that we use
44:04are the obvious part
of a design practice
44:07in order to get our job done.
44:10But it's total understanding
of design process and design
44:16impact within the
organization that
44:19actually create value for
the company and its partners.
44:25It's very critical for how
we run the organization,
44:30and it creates or
adds an extra meaning
44:34to our day-to-day practice.
44:37An assumption that
most designers make
44:40is that everyone understands
design and is familiar what
44:46design actually means.
44:48When it comes to
reality, we often
44:50encounter that people
perceive design, again,
44:54as beautifully-looking images,
layouts, intuitive apps,
45:00but they do not necessarily
know what comes into the process
45:07and what is the
journey in order to get
45:10to the final stage
of this beautiful app
45:13that we are building.
45:14As we know, internal
design literacy
45:17across wider teams within
organizations can differ.
45:21Sales people may
not necessarily be
45:24extremely familiar
with a design practice.
45:28So on top of our daily
activities as designers,
45:32we need to evangelize
and educate.
45:35And it comes to educating
both internally as well
45:42educating our clients,
educating our partners,
45:45educating different
stakeholders that we engage in.
45:49Having a well-established
relationship with your clients
45:52and partners or other external
stakeholders certainly
45:57help the entire team
and the organization.
46:00Working as one team together
towards a common goal
46:04can only benefit each
and every one of us.
46:08We can build relationship
based on confidence and trust,
46:12and our design team can be a
trustworthy, valuable advisor
46:18that can aim towards
a common goal
46:22together with
clients and partners.
46:24A great team is a group
of sincere individuals
46:27who support and empower
one another in order
46:31to achieve their
personal as well
46:33as professional objectives.
46:35And, of course, there
are shortcomings too,
46:37and we need to work
on these together.
46:40What is important, in
this case, is a safe space
46:43that we create for having
these meaningful and open
46:48And sometimes these are
difficult conversations
46:51or challenging critique
sessions, and that's all OK.
46:55As soon as we are transparent
and honest with each other
46:59and we aim towards
common improvement,
47:02we will challenge each
other, and often so
47:05disagree with one another.
47:07As I mentioned, we are
on a journey together.
47:10And we will have more difficult
and easier days as well.
47:15We will make plenty of mistakes,
and hopefully, learn from them.
47:21What I would like
to emphasize on
47:23from a leadership perspective,
or from a head of a discipline
47:27perspective, is that we shall
remember about one thing.
47:33We shall remember that right
now we work for our team,
47:39and our team, its well-being,
its growth, and its development
47:43is supposed to be our
key and major objective.
47:49Thank you very much for
following this session.
47:51I hope it was useful
for all of you.
47:54If I were to summarize
and bring two key points,
47:59the conclusion of the session,
it would be, number one,
48:03remain open to your wider teams.
48:06And ensure that everyone
understands and is
48:09familiar with your
design practice,
48:13and recognize this prominence
of your design team
48:17across wider organization.
48:19And the second one, be
mindful about scaling.
48:22The sooner you start,
the better for you.
48:28JULIE SCHILLER: Wow.
48:29Thank you so much
for that talk, Jay.
48:31It was really nice to
hear about your thoughts
48:33about how to structure UX teams.
48:35This is exciting moment.
48:37We're going to be switching
over now to a live question
48:40Based on all your
comments below,
48:41our team has reviewed them, and
we'll be pulling up question
48:44and answer time with
the participants now.
48:47So please continue to discuss
on the comments thread,
48:51add any additional
comments you'd
48:52like to have asked
from the participants
48:54or from the community itself.
48:56We're really looking
forward to this chance
48:58to hear all the speakers
at the same time.
49:09Thanks, again, everybody.
49:10It was so nice to
hear your talks
49:11and get to understand
a little bit about how
49:13you've been thinking
about structuring
49:15UX teams at your companies.
49:17Also, a big thank
you to everyone
49:19listening in and entering
in thoughtful comments.
49:22This section in our live
question and answer,
49:24we're going to be
addressing a lot
49:25of the comments we've heard.
49:26So first, let's jump in and
talk a little bit about the team
49:32I think all the
talks mentioned it.
49:34And I do want to just quickly
mention that due to the time
49:37difference to California,
unfortunately,
49:40Mike Holzer won't be able
to join us in this session.
49:42But since I've led
teams here at Google,
49:44I'll be happy to represent
that perspective.
49:47So let's talk a little
bit more about the team
49:50And a couple of really
insightful questions
49:52came up about thinking
about centralized teams
49:54versus distributed teams.
49:56And I'd love to
hear your feedback
49:58about how you think
about centralizing
50:01your team versus making
it a distributed team.
50:06AMY HUANG: Should I start?
50:09So I know that I spoke about
having a centralized team.
50:13I think it's important for
designers and researchers
50:17to work closely with
their specific squads
50:20or their specific product teams.
50:22But in the context,
particularly in a small company
50:25when you can have
a centralized team,
50:27I think it's really important
to be together so that you
50:29can learn from each other and
hear about all of the work
50:33that you're doing and how
it impacts each other.
50:35So for example, if the driver
app team is making a change,
50:39it's going to influence
the customer experience.
50:42So it's really important that
we know about those things.
50:46JULIE SCHILLER: Fantastic.
50:47And, Jay, did you
want to add anything
50:48from your point of view?
50:49JAY KOMUDA: Yeah, I think
it's very important,
50:51alongside our journey, no matter
which engagement we are working
50:56on, that the team is constructed
in a way so each and every one
51:03cross-pollinates one another.
51:05And we can have a very healthy
and inspirational platform
51:09in order to actually
learn from one another
51:13and increase our capabilities
and skill sets moving forward.
51:18JULIE SCHILLER: I
really like that.
51:20And I think thinking
about seeding
51:21is such a great metaphor for
how we think about centralized
51:24versus decentralized teams.
51:26And over at Google,
I know that we often
51:28swing back and forth
from sitting together
51:31And that sort of
is a representation
51:34of what that ideal
size of the team
51:37is as well as how it connects.
51:40One quick follow-up that
came in the chat I also
51:42want to ask about is, how does
this structure change, or does
51:45it need to change, when
we're working from home
51:48in a time of crisis like this?
51:52JAY KOMUDA: So
let me start here.
51:55This is very
interesting, because we
51:56know that for all of us it's
been a challenging time.
52:00And we had to a
little bit revamp
52:02our ways of doing things.
52:05So as you can imagine,
due to the fact
52:07everything has turned
into a remote mode,
52:11the, let's say,
workshopping bit has
52:14been very interesting
experience from our perspective.
52:19And when we gather
onto a virtual board
52:21and actually play
around with stickies
52:23and prioritize together
with our clients,
52:27or when we think
about, let's say,
52:29conducting stakeholders
interviews,
52:31there may be a concern about
building this kind of intimacy
52:37space when compared
like you're in a room
52:41with your interviewee.
52:43And it actually works
surprisingly well.
52:47You can actually build the same
analogical mood and feeling
52:51between individuals while
being on a video call.
52:56And that's actually a
great, surprising experience
53:01from our perspective,
having a chance
53:04of practicing it a
little bit more as we
53:09used to be back in the days.
53:10So that that's perhaps the
key difference, I would say.
53:15AMY HUANG: I would
say, for us, I
53:17can talk a little bit
about the physical space,
53:19the physical proximity first.
53:21But I remember when
we chose where we
53:24were going to sit at RedMart.
53:25We actually chose a spot that
was close to all of the squads.
53:28We distinctly found a spot
that was our own space,
53:32but that we were physically
accessible to everybody.
53:35And obviously, again, when
you have a small company,
53:39But that's important,
because it means
53:40that you have--
what I wanted to do
53:42is make it as
efficient as possible
53:44to be collaborative
with either group.
53:46And having our
little designy space
53:49with the whiteboards
and the Post-it notes,
53:51it helps create
the design culture.
53:53So what has been helpful
in the transition
53:55to the online-only situation
is that we didn't just
53:59rely on physical proximity.
54:02We had the meetings set up.
54:05And those things are
helpful anyway even
54:07when you do have physical
proximity if somebody's out,
54:10somebody's working from home.
54:12You have everything
consolidated in a system
54:14so that you don't
have to remember
54:16to catch each other up.
54:18So it's been really
hard to be apart.
54:21I like to see my team.
54:23I like to turn on the
camera and say hi every day.
54:26But we still have that
culture and that closeness,
54:29and we've carried it through.
54:31JULIE SCHILLER: I'm
really happy to hear that.
54:33I think similar at Google,
we face several challenges
54:35of getting together.
54:36And sometimes we've even
seen teams leave open
54:40And if you're not on a call,
you just sort of leave it
54:43on in the background
to keep that sort
54:44of bumping into each other
sort of feeling as well.
54:48Thank you for sharing your
thoughts about team structure.
54:51A lot of comments also
came in understanding
54:54a variety of UX disciplines.
54:55So as we talked about
at the beginning,
54:57this series is not
only for designers
55:00or for researchers,
but really inclusive
55:01of the many different
types of practitioners
55:04we have in the UX field.
55:05So I'd love to hear a little
bit about your thoughts
55:08about when you're structuring a
UX team how you think about UX
55:11writing, UX engineering,
UX program management,
55:15and some of the growing
specialties inside of UX now
55:18that are a bit more [INAUDIBLE]
55:21AMY HUANG: Jay, do you want to
go first since you might have
55:24more diversity on your team?
55:26JAY KOMUDA: Yeah, absolutely.
55:27So first of all, from the
agency perspective, what
55:31is very important
and interesting
55:34is to be nimble when
it comes to how you
55:37form your team moving forward.
55:38Because actually, there are
multiple of roles out there,
55:41and we are very familiar with
UX service, and researchers,
55:46and business strategies that
are on a project often so.
55:50But actually, the way
we structure a team
55:54should be responding
to a pipeline of work
55:58As you may imagine-- and this
is perhaps the key difference
56:01between our organizations--
56:03is that our, let's
say, six months ahead
56:08can be different than nowadays.
56:10And we need to be
mindful that, hey, this
56:12is this particular account
we will be working with,
56:15and this is the
set of capabilities
56:17we need to seek for.
56:18And therefore, these kind of
individuals or these kinds
56:22of candidates would
be the most suitable
56:24for the job at this
particular time.
56:27It also determines how
we convert moving forward
56:35Because some projects may
last, let's say, three months
56:40or six months, and that's
perhaps a short period of time
56:42to bring somebody in-house.
56:44And then we need to rely on a
number of either freelancers,
56:48or in our case as being
a global organization,
56:52we can have capabilities across
different offices globally.
56:56So we can ask somebody
as a condiment
56:59to join the project for a
particular period of time.
57:02But I think the
main key aspect is
57:06to be nimble and be responding
to a particular need
57:12as the different projects in
the pipeline are shaping up.
57:20JULIE SCHILLER: Thank you.
57:22That's a really
interesting point of view.
57:23I know a lot of people
are particularly
57:24interested in content strategy.
57:26I don't know if anybody
had any feelings
57:28about working with writers
and content strategists.
57:32AMY HUANG: I have worked with
some really great content
57:34strategies in my
day, but it really
57:35depends on the company and the
focus, how much of the focus
57:40is on writing at that company.
57:42I would say at Blurb, we had
a lot more writing because
57:47of the author situation.
57:48At RedMart, we do have some
writing, but it's very little.
57:51It's more around just
messaging and coordinating.
57:54So there are a few people
around the company who
57:56are good at it and care, and
those are the ones who step up.
57:59And then everyone
else contributes.
58:04And I think that's my reaction
to the general question
58:09around specializations
is that-- well, you know
58:11what I'm going to say, right?
58:12We don't have enough people to
specialize, so we do our best.
58:16And each of my team members
grows in each of those ways
58:21depending on the
need at the time.
58:25JULIE SCHILLER: That
makes a ton of sense.
58:26And we're very lucky to have the
specializations here at Google.
58:30And I know myself, I've
learned a lot about UX writing,
58:33and content strategy,
and the variety of ways,
58:35especially as we're moving
away from always visual UIs
58:39to conversational
UIs and a variety
58:41of different mechanisms.
58:42That will be really an
exciting future for our field
58:45to think about how these
different disciplines work
58:49I think earlier, Jay,
you had mentioned
58:51a bit about scoping work
and being responsive
58:54to the business needs, which
I think is a great question.
58:57So I know in an agency--
58:59I worked in the past
in one-- that there
59:00is a lot of changes in
scope from your clients.
59:04And I'm sure Amy and I can agree
that continues to happen even
59:07when you're in-house.
59:09I'd love to hear about how you
think, when you're structuring
59:11your team, how you're thinking
about scoping work, and being
59:15able to ensure that the
team has velocity, but also
59:18is responsive to the
bandwidth of the team.
59:22JAY KOMUDA: So I
think what we need
59:24to be mindful of, that
design teams should operate
59:29in a very close collaboration
with delivery or tag teams
59:33that are responsible for
developing the product
59:37And we need to have
a certain foresight
59:40on what kind of
capabilities we are after.
59:45Of course, from the leadership
perspective, what is very key
59:48is to know each and every
one of your team members
59:51and actually be able to
pick the right person
59:54for this particular job
or set of activities
59:58that needs to be conducted.
01:00:00Yet, again, I need to
mention a very key part
01:00:04in scoping or getting
the team right
01:00:08for the project is working
closely with delivery
01:00:12and being able to
actually see everyone's
01:00:15availabilities moving forward.
01:00:19And again, people may be
jumping between projects,
01:00:22which often so happens.
01:00:24So perhaps this is one
of the differences that
01:00:29can be assigned to agency type
of teams versus large scale
01:00:35organizations or startups.
01:00:40JULIE SCHILLER: And,
Amy, I know in your talk
01:00:42you mentioned quite
a bit about research
01:00:44and being able to scope research
as well to be part of that.
01:00:47Could you talk a
little bit about how
01:00:48you think about ensuring
the team's capacity
01:00:52and structure is responsive
generally, but also,
01:00:55particularly to UX research?
01:00:57AMY HUANG: Absolutely.
01:00:58I am a big proponent of scoping
to fit, doing what you can,
01:01:05and then prioritizing
within that.
01:01:07So I mentioned that we have
been able to develop a process
01:01:11where we can set up
a monthly research,
01:01:15and that's roughly
because that's how long it
01:01:17takes to set up a study.
01:01:19You have to start planning
that far in advance in order
01:01:21to get all the people.
01:01:23So I coordinate the effort
of my researchers to plan.
01:01:29Their planning
takes about a month.
01:01:30And then, therefore, the
product team and the designers
01:01:33can take about a month to
figure out what they need to do.
01:01:35So basically, the beginning
of every month, we
01:01:37decide what is the priority
for the next study.
01:01:40And then it really then
ends up being a balancing.
01:01:44So if you know you should
probably only spend
01:01:47about an hour with
each participant,
01:01:49because they get tired
at the end of that,
01:01:51then you have to prioritize.
01:01:52Within that hour,
what can you achieve?
01:01:54What are the questions
we want to study?
01:01:57And what can you achieve?
01:01:58Sometimes we have a
few different projects
01:01:59or a few different kinds of
questions we want to answer.
01:02:02So then we have
to balance those.
01:02:03Is worth doing a
teeny-tiny study
01:02:06at the end of the bigger study?
01:02:07Or do you try to
break it off and do
01:02:09something unmoderated
or quick and dirty
01:02:13with your friendly colleagues?
01:02:14So for me, it really--
01:02:15I don't have a formula for you.
01:02:17It's basically, this is
the time that we have.
01:02:18And this is what we can
achieve within that time.
01:02:21JULIE SCHILLER: Yeah,
that's a really great point.
01:02:24I've been a researcher
for about a dozen years.
01:02:26And as I think about the
team and how we structure it,
01:02:29exactly that question
of like, well, there's
01:02:31the capacity of what we have.
01:02:32But also at Google,
sometimes we'll
01:02:34do that planning with
our stakeholders.
01:02:36And so we'll go through
that process and say,
01:02:39Before we kick everything
off, how's that coming?
01:02:41And you may have a similar
process [INAUDIBLE]
01:02:46We're at the top
of the hour, which
01:02:49I want to be very thankful.
01:02:50We have one last
question for you,
01:02:51and then we'll start
wrapping things up.
01:02:54The question is about
understanding design systems.
01:02:57So I think this gets back
to my first question, which
01:03:00was about centralized
versus decentralized.
01:03:02A lot of questions
came up thinking about,
01:03:04how do you make time to build
out a meaningful design system
01:03:08as an example of a kind of a
long-term project that may not
01:03:10have a call from the
business urgently?
01:03:13I'd love to hear either
of your perspectives
01:03:15about thinking about
prioritizing work
01:03:18on design systems and also
evangelizing that voice
01:03:20to your stakeholders.
01:03:24AMY HUANG: So I guess
being at a product company,
01:03:29we have a long-term
design system.
01:03:32It lives, and it lives
forever and ever and ever.
01:03:35And so for us I would
say there's always
01:03:38that moment when you look
at the design documentation
01:03:41and you realize
that it's a mess.
01:03:45We had screenshots
of screenshots of cut
01:03:50out screenshots
pasted into Sketch,
01:03:53and that's just because that's
what we needed to do in order
01:03:56to define the thing.
01:03:57So stepping back
and realizing it
01:03:59was very systematic, very basic.
01:04:02Within Sketch, let's start
creating some symbols.
01:04:04So it's really about making
sure you have the right tools
01:04:06and you use those tools.
01:04:08And then we slowly layered on.
01:04:09So we've got the combination.
01:04:11I think it's pretty common--
01:04:12Sketch, Abstract, and Invision.
01:04:14And most of us, it's in Sketch.
01:04:16And even before we
had Abstract, we just
01:04:18had a shared Sketch file, which
is really risky, by the way.
01:04:23So these are the kinds of things
that we just try to do as much
01:04:27of it as we could at a time.
01:04:29I have the same answer for you
for every question-- do as much
01:04:32as you can when you can do it.
01:04:34JULIE SCHILLER: I
like the consistency.
01:04:36That's wonderful.
01:04:38How about you, Jay?
01:04:39Do you guys ever
struggle with systems
01:04:40thinking about design
systems in your work?
01:04:42JAY KOMUDA: So this is very,
very interesting area for us.
01:04:45Because, of course, like
you know, as an agency,
01:04:48we would work on our set
of tools and design system.
01:04:53And we would work as
being 10 different offices
01:04:56globally together with
our global head of design.
01:04:59But we need to be also mindful
that aside from our own design
01:05:04system, we would fall under
different design systems that
01:05:07live across our accounts.
01:05:09And this is very
interesting, big, because,
01:05:13again, like we are aware that
there is a different design
01:05:16maturity across clients.
01:05:18And that's perfectly fine.
01:05:20And some of them may have
developed a design system
01:05:23to a certain extent,
and in some cases,
01:05:26it may not exist,
for instance, and we
01:05:28need to start from
scratch building it.
01:05:30So actually often so,
it ends up that instead
01:05:35of being focused on
our own design system,
01:05:38we would create a design
system for the engagement
01:05:41or for the experience that
we are right now creating
01:05:45And that involves a lot
of activities around,
01:05:49and a lot of evangelizing, and
educating as we move forward.
01:05:55And especially, it brings
a number of challenges,
01:05:59for instance, if we have
a number of stakeholders
01:06:02or a number of partner
organizations working
01:06:05on the engagement.
01:06:06So our voice, from the
experience design company
01:06:11or agency, we need to be very
clear what we want to achieve
01:06:15and how we want to go about
either our process or a set
01:06:19of tools we would be using
for this particular project.
01:06:24And then, again, the whole
agility and being nimble.
01:06:29It might be so, that for
instance, one account
01:06:32is working with
this set of tools,
01:06:35or there has a certain
type of-- or a chunk
01:06:38of work created in
this set of tools
01:06:41while it may be a totally
different set of tools
01:06:43for another account.
01:06:45So we need to be able to
actually remain flexible.
01:06:50And it can end up that
the preferred tool that we
01:06:55are using in-house,
for instance,
01:06:57may not be preferred
tool for the project.
01:06:59Because we need to ensure
continuity or what's
01:07:02being done before.
01:07:05JULIE SCHILLER: That is
really, really interesting.
01:07:07And over at Google,
I think we have,
01:07:09of course, Material
Design, and it's
01:07:11a pretty well-known system.
01:07:12And we're evolving
that at all times.
01:07:14And so I really like
this point about thinking
01:07:16about being responsive and
thinking about the tool sets.
01:07:18Because inside, we also
have a variety of tool sets
01:07:21that different teams use.
01:07:22So I think one other area we've
been trying to invest a lot in
01:07:27is thinking about how not only
do we create a system that's
01:07:30usable for us, but also
broadly other people
01:07:32can adopt and personalize
for their own use.
01:07:35And that is a hard
question for us.
01:07:39There were so many more
questions in the chat.
01:07:43So I'm very sorry to people
with saying we didn't
01:07:45get to all of your questions.
01:07:47But this is a
quarterly series where
01:07:48we will be able to come
back and review new topics.
01:07:52So I encourage you
to fill out feedback.
01:07:56We'll be sending
you feedback forms.
01:07:58Give feedback to our
wonderful presenters,
01:07:59to also Google about how
you feel the thing went.
01:08:03Any suggestions for new
topics are most welcome.
01:08:06I also want to give a huge
thanks to the amazing Google
01:08:10team that works so hard to put
together this beautiful event.
01:08:15Thank you, everybody.
01:08:16We really appreciate
your work on it.
01:08:18And we're really looking
forward to learning
01:08:21from this community, engaging
in a conversation about how
01:08:24user experience is working, in
Asia-Pacific and in Singapore
01:08:29I also want to
wish everyone who's
01:08:31listening a lot of good
health during a lot
01:08:33of these tense and
terrible times right now.
01:08:35I hope everyone stays safe.
01:08:36And we're really grateful,
again, for all your time.
01:08:39So thank you everyone, again.
01:08:41Thank you, Amy, for your
thoughts, your time.
01:08:44And we're really grateful for
all of your time and thoughts.
01:08:48Thanks, everybody.
01:08:50JAY KOMUDA: Thank you.
01:08:50AMY HUANG: Thank you.
