00:02welcome to the method podcast I'm Aiden
00:05Simpson and this is where we talk to
00:06design of the Google about work-life and
00:09the future of design
00:10today's episode is with reader to rate
00:12an interaction designer who's become a
00:14bit of Google Law reader and I talked
00:17before the launch of a new Google Voice
00:18redesign so we hear some of the behind
00:20the scenes info about that we also
00:22talked about taking risks giving good
00:24feedback designing onboarding systems
00:27so enough from me I hope you enjoyed
00:30this episode of the method podcast hi my
00:34name is Rita Gerry I'm a designer on
00:36Google Voice I used to work on search
00:39with you so so that's a fun section okay
00:43and what are you working on right now so
00:45right now I'm working on Google Voice
00:47and we are going to be launching every
00:49design in the next couple months that's
00:52okay so Google Voice what does that
00:53entail exactly yeah so Google Voice has
00:56an acronym that kind of sounds like a
00:58lot of other products and smart Google
00:59Ventures with not the assistant
01:02basically it's a service where you can
01:05get a phone number and it's one of our
01:07sort of like cult following products so
01:09it's been around since 2006 but it
01:11hasn't been really updated since that
01:13point so we're launching a redesign of
01:16it we're going to bring it up to
01:17material standards and then hopefully
01:19work on a future of the product that
01:21makes it really compelling for today's
01:23users okay nice and nothing to do with
01:25kind of voice search or anything like
01:27that no very far away from search okay
01:30and how long have you been on that team
01:31like two months now which is a short
01:34time but I'm surprised to party been two
01:37how long have you been at Google in
01:38general a year and a half you're not and
01:41you started as an intern I did yeah what
01:45was the coolest thing about your
01:46internship I feel like is beating this
01:49one but yeah but I got to get coffee
01:54with other design interns with Sergey
01:57which was pretty exciting and kind of
02:02so basically it was the last week of the
02:07internship and the other design interns
02:09and I had this like ongoing joke that we
02:11were going to get Larry and Sergey to
02:13have a one-on-one with us and then it
02:16was sort of rounding the end and it's my
02:17last week and I we were all talking like
02:20you know how we're actually going to
02:21pull this off so we all go to tjs we get
02:24a bunch of seats and we decided that ask
02:26allies question and because I just
02:30wanted to make happen I kind of
02:32volunteered myself and so the whole ztj
02:34f is happening and I'm like writing down
02:36what I think I'm going to say so time
02:38comes and I ask a last question and the
02:41gist of it was what did I say I said oh
02:45you know we've all had such a great
02:46summer we've all had a lot of
02:47one-on-ones with people across the
02:49company and then you know would you guys
02:51have like coffee lunch you know
02:54something like that with us and Larry
02:56like looks at us like we're crazy and
02:58when Sir days like coffee works and so I
03:02was like great but we get back down and
03:04I'm super excited I like was really
03:06stoked I actually asked that I realized
03:08I didn't know when I didn't know where
03:10so I put it on his calendar and lo and
03:12behold the next day he replies with a
03:14location and then me and about six other
03:17designer turns we show up and he showed
03:20up and it was really he doing the stuff
03:22of infinite legislation actually
03:24sometimes to this day people be like
03:26wait you're the you're the person who
03:27did that like you're the intern and I'm
03:28like yes actually so yeah what did you
03:32offer I think one of like the funniest
03:34moments from that was I had like this
03:37was when they had just large since all
03:39tracking car and I like really casually
03:42seven conversation that it was like a
03:44koala and like conversation just stops
03:47dead I told them yeah looks like a koala
03:50you know he sort of like picked on that
03:52for a little bit and I was like oh you
03:53know how kind of like a cartoon one so
03:57conversation moves on and the first time
03:58in the whole conversation he slides his
04:00phone across the table to me and I pick
04:03it up and it's Google images of just
04:05koalas and he's like it looks like the
04:07fume I was like yep and now
04:09to oneself you know I don't want to
04:11claim credit but Here I am such a good
04:15story so let's dig back in time a little
04:18bit more where did you come from how did
04:20you get into design yeah so I feel like
04:24a lot of people are in design now I kind
04:27of stumbled into it I was always like
04:29the kid I was like building stuff and
04:31just learning random stuff that think
04:34when I was about 13 or something I was
04:37thinking that digital arts so cool but I
04:39had no idea how people actually did it
04:41and only suffers I had on my computer
04:43like the default Microsoft ones so I
04:46thought that people actually recreated
04:48stuff like pixel for pixel and pain like
04:51that just how it was done so I set out
04:53to teach myself design and I was like
04:55copying stuff and then I certifying
04:57tutorials and I was like oh there's all
04:59these software's out there so I get this
05:01copy of Photoshop that's like adobe
05:04elements like the bad version of cs2 and
05:08it was like really stripped down I don't
05:11even think there was layers but I
05:12started using it to like follow these
05:15other design tutorials Maps making
05:16digital art and of course my friends and
05:19family are supportive and great like all
05:21that stuff school blah blah blah but I
05:22wanted to get better so I was kind of a
05:26nerdy kid I was reading Forbes or
05:28something there is this article about
05:29crowdsourcing and I found this
05:33crowdsourcing website and of course now
05:35I wouldn't highly recommend
05:37crowdsourcing to any designer but I
05:39thought oh you know what would make me
05:40better a client's opinion now that's
05:42kind of a laughable thing to say but at
05:45the time it worked and so I would like
05:47look at these briefs and I would do the
05:48design and I was looking at it like
05:51purely from an educational standpoint
05:52but my second project I wanted and I
05:55like you know to the thing I think it
05:57was like five hundred dollars and I was
05:59about 15 and that's like could not
06:01believe it and I remember I had to ask
06:04my mom for her paypal email address so I
06:05could actually get paid and I was like
06:08oh yeah so I have $500 from the Internet
06:11very strange amortization and then you
06:15know I displayed it and they're like oh
06:16that's cool so then I just kind of
06:18kicked off this freelance design
06:21business where I was working with people
06:22who I never met and never would me and I
06:25was doing a lot of design projects and
06:27then I ended up teaching myself like web
06:30development from that because oh we want
06:32a full website I was like sure I can do
06:33hooked up how to do it and I was also
06:37homeschooled so I think I typed really
06:38well so nobody had any reason to guess I
06:40was like others on a professional but I
06:43was like fifteen and doing it that night
06:46yeah essentially to hear you how you
06:48just kind of you dug in and you did the
06:50time and you found a way for you to kind
06:52of upscale yourself through kind of
06:54sitting at a desk and working through
06:56the crowdsourcing website yeah which is
06:58which is really good it's like a really
07:00noble way to do it like learning on the
07:02job as opposed to kind of going for
07:03design school yeah did you get did you
07:06go to design school afterwards or and
07:07you've always just been totally felt to
07:09it yeah so I ended up doing my whole
07:12like outlook on college was kind of
07:15different so I was home-schooled but
07:18then it was for the latter half slap to
07:21surf grade it was a charter school that
07:23we did at home and one of the programs
07:25you could do through the charter school
07:26was you could go and do post secondary
07:29so the same time when I was like 15 I
07:33started taking college classes and they
07:35were like Gen ed ones so just kind of
07:38going to college and taking those
07:40classes as part of it and by the time I
07:41graduated high school I had a lot of
07:44credits so I was like okay like this is
07:46what people do they just go to school
07:47but I assumed I would be a designer I
07:50didn't ever get an internship or
07:52anything like that I just saw that this
07:53is what I'm doing so I looked at local
07:57colleges and I was really interested in
07:59just graduating like without that and
08:01being very strategic about it so I sort
08:03of like hedge my bets and found one that
08:06had a similar enough program and so I
08:09went to Bourne Green State University in
08:11Ohio and I graduated with visual
08:13communication technology but ends up in
08:16just because I've been working so much
08:17that a lot of the classes I kind of like
08:19you know yeah I breezed through a lot of
08:22them but what school did you from
08:24which was awesome was I had to get
08:26internships and so beforehand I was so
08:29kind of like fly-by-night just doing my
08:31own thing I didn't really think about
08:33giving an actual design job but because
08:37they had to get the internship my
08:39freshman year the summer of my freshman
08:41year I got one at an agency and I
08:44learned so much like you know school
08:47classes are one thing but at the agency
08:48we had all these clients and yet to
08:50present the work and there was you know
08:52tons of different briefs and working
08:54with a team and I actually worked with a
08:58designer at that time and now he is at
09:01Google like many years later I'm a play
09:04team always from Ohio so it's a very
09:06very small world how did the
09:08homeschooling of that kind of your
09:10outlook in the way you approach thanks
09:12to me you know it's weird because
09:13there's a stereotype of being
09:15homeschooled and there's I would say
09:17more homeschooled people in Ohio still
09:19relatively uncommon but I think it made
09:22me pretty confident and I think that is
09:24different from like a stereotype that
09:26you kind of picture we have stack of you
09:29know curriculums for the day to get
09:30through and if I was like you know
09:33really fast with it and worked really
09:34hard I would have the whole day free to
09:36do whatever I wanted and so I think
09:38because of that I have this very like
09:41self teaching mindset and so if I wanted
09:45to do well on the test I would really
09:46have to like look at the material for
09:48myself and it wasn't that I could ever
09:51say oh you know a teacher didn't post on
09:53this or this you know my mom didn't she
09:56was pretty hands-off and just graded
09:58stuff or would check the tests or you
10:00know games quizzes but it was very very
10:02self driven and so I'm lucky that that's
10:05an environment that I really thrived in
10:07do you think kind of homeschooling has
10:09made you kind of go out and just keep
10:10looking for other things to keep
10:12yourself inspired and motive
10:14yeah I would definitely think so so the
10:18BBC thing actually came out because when
10:21I was about 19 I thought I was reading
10:24so many blogs about the design industry
10:25and people getting awards about life I
10:27think I want that like I think I want to
10:29start getting some awards or something
10:31and I didn't know how or why I
10:33completely deserve them but I just
10:35started sending my work out and trying
10:38to get it sort of in the industry and so
10:40I ended up getting runner-up for this
10:44magazine that was based out of London
10:46and so when my name was sort of out
10:49there a little bit and so then fast
10:51forward two years I just got this cold
10:53email from a producer at the BBC site or
10:56making this kid show we're working with
10:58a lot of like YouTube bloggers to get do
11:01these bits about tech for kids but we
11:04don't have anyone who's actually in the
11:06industry and we've had your name on some
11:09spreadsheet for who knows how long
11:11and so like would you make spots for us
11:14and so I ended up making these holes
11:16like tutorials like how to do digital
11:18art how to make a website and these
11:21little two-minute bits for this kids
11:23show and that's for the first season and
11:25it was fine like I wrote the scripts and
11:27I filmed it with my little sister so
11:29they're like my assistants for it if you
11:32will and they loved it but then for the
11:35next season they ended up getting proof
11:38in our season they had a bigger budget
11:39and so like this year's CES and that's
11:43like sending me out there and I covered
11:44it with their crew like as their
11:46reporter for it so it's just this kind
11:48of funny side project stuff where I
11:51don't know if it's homeschooling but I
11:53have a tendency to think if something's
11:55just intimidating enough or just scary
11:58enough to just kind of like throw myself
11:59into the situation because I think
12:02really well on my feet which I'm
12:04happiness and skill I have but then you
12:06never know what will come out of it and
12:08it could be embarrassing or can be cool
12:09but I don't broadcast the embarrassing
12:11stuff so you also mentioned kind of your
12:15your strengths there as being like being
12:18think quickly in your feet what do you
12:20think is like the design kryptonite mmm
12:23I'm just sitting in front of a computer
12:27for too long I kind of will get to this
12:29space where I'm just like pushing
12:31rectangles around if I get instead
12:33headspace like that's my complete
12:34kryptonite and you know maybe getting
12:37way too into a certain use case can send
12:40me there but once I start I don't really
12:43just spending way too much time getting
12:45stuck on a problem I need to like step
12:47out of that and you know ask somebody to
12:50look at something I think you know call
12:52it imposter syndrome but sometimes you
12:54guys don't want to ask for feedback on
12:56something until it's like perfect or
12:58like what you would love to have your
13:00name behind and you know waiting to at
13:02that point I think I can get really
13:04stuck and so it's just about sort of
13:06like you know kind of being a little
13:08humble about it stepping aside and
13:09knowing that like for the sake of being
13:11productive and happy and not in a rut
13:15like just looping other designers and on
13:17the product and you know not to like
13:19plug for the company working but there
13:21are like a lot of cool people who work
13:24here and they're totally willing to lend
13:25a hand and you know people love to yeah
13:28they like to design like to solo the
13:30design problems that's for sure exactly
13:32what I mean it's nice to like if you're
13:34working out a product and you're stuck
13:36in something and somebody else okay
13:38what's your opinion of this if you have
13:39like this quick moment of like oh yes I
13:41know design is also a break for them
13:44like yeah and people asked me to speak
13:45back because I can like stop thinking
13:47about my problem and think about them
13:48you know is that the collaboration is
13:51key and okay let's talk about feedback
13:54then okay and what ways have you found
13:57to like get constructive and good
13:59feedback I think it's how you like frame
14:02the question so I think one of the tough
14:07things is at least for me when people
14:08ask for feedback is so let's throw you
14:10in the middle of this space that they've
14:12been working on and I'm working at you
14:14know 10 things and it's hard to know
14:16like what I should go with on my gut
14:19tell them and so when I'm asking for
14:21feedback I try to be really concise
14:24about like okay you know this is the
14:26problem this is yell
14:27that thought and and put it in a way
14:30where like people can digest it I still
14:32think that's really hard like even if
14:34you go to a more formal review session
14:36like with the lead I feel like half the
14:38battle is having empathy with that lead
14:40because they're just you know they're
14:42looking at a million things and now
14:43they're seeing this problem of yours
14:45that is pretty it's pretty nuanced and
14:48you're just like well what do you think
14:50and they are suggesting things and you
14:51hit them with the appendix you're like I
14:53already thought of that
14:53and so I think it's kind of looping
14:56people in early boss having empathy for
14:59the fact that they like don't have tons
15:02of context the pressure engine isn't in
15:05as much as well as the feedback I love
15:07that feedback someone's more than other
15:09designers feedback because it's so down
15:11to the earth finger designer feedback is
15:14like all but like what if you know let
15:16me did this interaction I saw and you
15:19know you're all like that's amazing we
15:20should do that and engineers like our
15:22web launch next week like what do you
15:25think because what are you talking about
15:27I'm this is that case and that age case
15:29and you thought about that yes oh yeah
15:31yeah engineering edge case in Seattle
15:33and I'm in right now is about for launch
15:36of product and all the edge cases are
15:38like nobody thought about this
15:40got to do it so you know you mentioned
15:43deadlines earlier I think one of the one
15:47of the things I struggled with when I
15:48first started working here it's a lack
15:50of deadlines okay a self-imposed
15:51deadline that can always be moved yeah
15:53do you find using that structure or your
15:56pretty self motivated to meet your end
15:57deadline just the kind of person I am
16:00and I've been trying to self this point
16:01away from the suspect I do need
16:03deadlines I end up with working really
16:06great under pressure like that is when I
16:08get inside my flow and it's the things
16:11are actually essential if I leave things
16:13too ambiguous for myself I find ways to
16:16like you know like work on other stuff
16:19or work on lots of explorations but I
16:21don't really get down to the solving of
16:23it like I can do so many explorations of
16:26something I think that's one of my
16:27strengths but if I don't either give
16:29myself deadlines or there's not like a
16:31launch and pending I can spend things
16:34off so long in that phase and it's
16:37really important to be like
16:38okay times make decisions like what do
16:40you care about what features do we care
16:41about and just really do that and so I
16:46my personal back right yeah I try to set
16:49up reviews that feel maybe a little bit
16:50too close just because I know that like
16:52when I just have that little bit of like
16:54a fire that's when I really perform at
16:57my best and so yeah all right let's talk
17:01about Google Voice have you mentioned
17:02before you started on search what was it
17:05the jury to the Google Earth team I'm
17:07really interested in how can you like
17:10really connect people one of the things
17:12with Google Voice is you have a phone
17:15number and you have all the controls
17:17around it that you would for like a
17:19social media profile so you can say who
17:21can contact you when and then all of
17:24that information with your phone is just
17:26in your Google account so you could sign
17:28it on your laptop you could lose your
17:30phone you could leave your phone and
17:32know you're not going to miss anything
17:33important and I love this idea of
17:35working on products that help free
17:37people from their technology a little
17:39bit more I think it's such a
17:40technological world and its really great
17:42but so easy to be glued in it's so easy
17:45to feel like you have to be or
17:47responsible not to be glued to your
17:48device and so I love working on this
17:51product where Oh respond like you don't
17:54have to be connected to a copy because
17:56one of the things little I'm guessing
17:57yeah yeah any piece of technology Google
17:59Voice might work on exactly so if you
18:01can you know sign in to Google you can
18:03use Google Voice and yeah and I just
18:07think that's a really interesting space
18:09to be working in and also it's um it's
18:12you know it's one of those frontiers of
18:14design I haven't worked on yet and so I
18:16search even though I was not on the team
18:20as long as a lot of people have been on
18:21some teams it wasn't challenging in the
18:25sense where I felt like I knew what was
18:26going on the team has grown so much and
18:29you know I just I had a really good
18:31pulse on how that space works I
18:33obviously could have learned a lot more
18:35but the new team is like I've never
18:38desired for communications before and
18:40that's sort of putting myself back in
18:42that mindset of being a kid where I was
18:44learning design and you know that sort
18:47of right strand of like oh how does this
18:48work look it up and so
18:50I love putting myself in that headspace
18:51I really look for opportunities to put
18:54myself about like learning feeling a
18:56little over my head staying and so yeah
18:59yeah nice like what do you think has
19:01been the hardest problem you've worked
19:03on since you join that team so right now
19:06I'm working on well I mean I would say
19:10there's two one we're working on the
19:12brand identity which i think is hard
19:15because it can be ambiguous and you have
19:18to have these sort of like firm opinions
19:19on things like you know what time does
19:22this brand persona go to bed and it's
19:24kind of absurd but it means something in
19:26a way and you're like other memory
19:28dissolves all of it like probably
19:29relative of it but yeah so it was really
19:32fun but it was challenging again just
19:34because it's the kind of thing that you
19:36don't normally do but it really helps
19:38inform like because we're going around
19:40like a product pivot in a sense it's
19:43about you know what kind of features do
19:45you really care about like what is this
19:46actually for and so that's you know
19:50that's its own challenge but I would say
19:52the most like on paper challenge has
19:54been my current project which I'm
19:56working on the onboarding for our
19:58updated Google Voice and I think like
20:00I'm boarding is one of those things that
20:02nobody has told anything even about
20:07onboarding I'm not sure if it's anything
20:10that you know it hasn't been said before
20:12but I have been just like sound playing
20:16the marketing screens and using
20:18illustrations for things that only
20:21really convey meaning or almost using
20:23them as a decoration but having every
20:26screen be about a precise action and
20:29granted that's different from a lot of
20:30products like for Google Voice we have
20:32to a just because of the legacy of a
20:36prophecy about ten different types of
20:38users but for new users there's this
20:41whole process of picking a phone number
20:42that has been really interesting to
20:45solve because before we have this link
20:47and say drop-off rate with people open
20:49up this experience and they like 48% of
20:53back just like yeah all right yeah well
20:57it was while before I mean you have
21:00there's like three different feels and
21:01if you check a text box another box
21:03shows up you have to check and this
21:04happens for about eight work boxes this
21:07like create the experience you have to
21:08unpack and so from what I've learned in
21:11this essentially is each screen making
21:14sure it's around an action and making
21:17that actually really clear because
21:18before we're in this place where you
21:21know it's Google right if you want to
21:23all their options but being smart about
21:26where you limit their options where you
21:28give them more options but having every
21:30screen really be about one central topic
21:35basically make it simple so one of our
21:38users said this thing after our third
21:40round of testing it went from nobody
21:42getting through it to our last reviews
21:44and we was like we asked someone how
21:46they thought it was and I was just like
21:48every screen I did what it said to do
21:50and it just did it and we were like
21:53going like the best feedback ever it
21:55sounds pretty underwhelming but like we
21:56were stoked about that
21:57so we em we learned something in photos
22:00as well recently about users in in India
22:03who don't actually speak English but
22:04they look at the pictures of that one
22:06boarding and they were allowing that
22:07picture for that to tell them exactly
22:08what they need to do but even those
22:10principles they give they kind of
22:12reflect to with even American American
22:15users because we're only launching in
22:16the US as a US only product which is
22:18pretty different from the rest of Google
22:20but we had a user in one of our studies
22:23with none of the users read the text is
22:26the main thing and I had put together
22:28some really quick illustrations and
22:31people like oh just Bobby I just guess
22:33what it did or some of the things like
22:35it's pretty a lot like technically how
22:38the product works very elaborate and so
22:41a lot of our old copy would explain that
22:43and some more old designs were really
22:44using that old copy and people would
22:47just blaze through the screens and just
22:48be like continue continue continue and
22:50then they get to a stage like picking
22:52their phone number and they would be so
22:53confused like they had no idea why they
22:55were seeing this box they didn't know
22:57and so sort of you know understand
23:02anything like Oh copy is good but
23:05you gotta make it super concise and even
23:07better if you can illustrate it and yeah
23:09shoutouts illustrators who make stuff
23:12make sense because I was talking to the
23:14one on my teen about like what I wanted
23:15I was like oh my god I'm like the worst
23:18client ever I'm like you know just
23:19something cool be trendy I'm like boom
23:23the agency world the point is nobody
23:25come but he could go back to that 15
23:29year old self in front of the computer
23:31about to go on a crowdsourcing website
23:33what advice would you get the evelopment
23:36I would probably say I don't doubt
23:40yourself so much I feel like I went a
23:42lot of my career and even now just kind
23:45of thing oh you know I'm good I'm not
23:47good enough yet or I would tell myself
23:50like oh you should wait before you do
23:51this or you shouldn't apply for this
23:53because you might not get it and so when
23:57I applied for my Google internship
23:59actually like that was very
24:00spur-of-the-moment thing and I thought
24:02it was this completely far-fetched like
24:05I just want to get it I didn't have any
24:06references I didn't know anybody at
24:08Google and it was just this company I
24:11wanted to work for but I would love to
24:14tell it fit you know me like no just do
24:16it like if you underestimate
24:17underestimate yourself like other people
24:19aren't going to as well because you're
24:21not putting yourself in the way of doing
24:23something exciting great let's go
24:26there's a million questions I could ask
24:28you from that but yes people will call
24:30it that all right thanks so much for you
24:35all righty just a final word from us at
24:37Google design did you know you can sign
24:39up for Google designs quarterly
24:41newsletter covering the latest and
24:42greatest design stories from Google and
24:44beyond all you have to do is go to
24:47design google forward slash newsletter
24:49put in your details and receive all this
24:51goodness straight into your inbox one of
24:53my favorite parts is actually the five
24:55things to love right now section this is
24:57a curated list of cool things chosen by
24:59people at Google and I always learn
25:01something new all right that's it from
