00:07thank you so much for joining us today
00:10for the second edition of design e's we
00:15put together this talk series in order
00:19to create a time in a space for a
00:21dialogue around the role of design in
00:25creating a future that we all want to be
00:28a part of so we hope that you will find
00:32the speakers and the talks inspiring and
00:36help you develop your own understanding
00:39of what it means to be human and what it
00:43means to design for humans we are very
00:45excited to have Gretchen Anderson today
00:48for design is human she is the director
00:53of design for digital catalyst she leads
00:56user centered design and design thinking
00:58at PG&E and when she joined PG&E in 2016
01:03she brought a wealth of experience in
01:06digital design of products and services
01:09prior to that she led the design of
01:14hardware and software for next
01:17generational surgical systems and we are
01:20very very excited to have her here today
01:22so join me in welcoming grace
01:37so lovely to be here Thank You Kai wen
01:41Kai asked me to come talk to Google
01:44designers largely about being human you
01:48know I had a little pause about I'm not
01:50sure what I'm going to tell you I'm not
01:51sure if I can help you be better humans
01:53or self but I think you know I think
01:56there are some things that we can come
01:57around as designers who design for
01:59humans but also whose practice involves
02:01being kind of sent here kind of human at
02:04the core so I am now at PG&E with our
02:08public utility believe it or not we're
02:10doing design we're leading a product
02:12development with design there which is
02:14pretty exciting to know that it's
02:15reached into you know government and
02:18utilities design is kind of arrived and
02:21what that means to me is that all of the
02:23work that I've done as a consultant and
02:25you know I've designed Surgical robotic
02:27systems I've done genetic sequencing you
02:30know I love wicked problems but that's
02:32all because at the end of the day it's
02:34something for people I'm not the person
02:37that's going to design Netflix it's not
02:38what gets me into bed in the morning I
02:40love to watch it don't get me wrong but
02:42you know I'm really focused on sort of
02:44how are we going to change the world of
02:46humans with what we do and I hope you
02:48believe that we can so just to frame up
02:51I want to talk about I'm not going to
02:53talk too much about user centered design
02:54I'm going to assume that we all kind of
02:56get that I have a few things to mention
02:58but yep I think about it sort of I have
03:00this cycle of things that I deal with as
03:02a designer I'm at the core of it and I
03:04have a team that I work with and I have
03:06stakeholders that I serve and then I
03:08have users that I serve and so then I
03:10could I've used this as a frame for some
03:11of what I talked about today and and
03:14just to get started I want to show you
03:17guys a video as you guys heard about the
03:20teacher that has a custom handshake for
03:21every student somebody had seen this
03:23like see if I can get this to play for
03:26those of you who haven't this is a
03:27teacher at North Carolina who he's got
03:31like every public school teacher 30-some
03:33odd students and if you watch this he
03:36has one for every single one of them
03:37this one's my favorite including the
03:39ones like I'm not doing that
03:43some of them are more elaborate than
03:45and sometimes shows to people they think
03:49wow a lot of work he's got to remember
03:53all of those handshakes I've even had
03:57people ask me is this just drafting from
03:59his being a teacher very expressive very
04:13personal very theatrical so awesome you
04:29don't need to watch ABC and the reason I
04:32love this video and I talked about this
04:34as you know putting humans at the center
04:35of design is what this says to me is
04:37kind of at the core of what we have
04:38human said our designers do which is I
04:39care enough about you to make something
04:41for you and with you I really believe in
04:44that and I'm yeah it's a lot of work and
04:46I got to remember a lunch bunch of stuff
04:47and I got to run some workshops and I
04:49got to make some post-it but it's
04:50because at the end of the day I think I
04:52get to a better result I guarantee you
04:54those students are having a better
04:55educational experience because they feel
04:57valued they feel listened to they feel
05:00respected they're included and all of
05:03that makes for a better experience
05:04so as you run into people who maybe
05:06start to go okay I talked to some users
05:08user-centered my product managers like
05:11to do that right you know remind them of
05:13like it's about the love of co-creation
05:16really not just sort of like I heard I
05:18talked to ten people
05:18check the box so that's the end of my
05:23user centered design spiel thank you
05:25guys have the rest of that so now I want
05:27to talk a little bit about stakeholders
05:29you know when I talk to people in the
05:31design space who are trying to struggle
05:32with I'm new to being at a big company
05:34I'm B genius 27000 some odd people I
05:39have not been that big environment and I
05:42struggled a little bit with like how am
05:44I going to be how am I going to scale
05:46myself how am I going to be who I am
05:48normally in small environments when I
05:50get into these bigger places but what I
05:52think I've found is there's some
05:54principles that are the same
05:55and some of it has to do with the way we
05:57think about stakeholders so the first
06:00thing that I always think of for myself
06:02and for others is this idea of they
06:04versus us I'll talk more about this but
06:07it's great Petroff once said designers
06:11can be a paranoid Bunch I don't know if
06:14any of you recognize resemble that
06:16remark but could be a lot of like Vey
06:18don't listen to me they don't understand
06:21me you know what I try to say to people
06:24it's like who's the bay right we're all
06:28doing this together we are all doing
06:29this for and with each other and so
06:31who's the day so if you can rewire your
06:34thinking to being on the same side and
06:37being aligned that's a super big win and
06:41you know the flip side of that is
06:44somebody that just wants to kind of a B
06:46test things forever is the opposite of
06:50that which is like I'm just asking you
06:52to give me some variants and I'll figure
06:54out which one wins the popularity
06:55contest and okay I'm such a Google
06:58designers here I'm not knocking a/b
06:59testing entirely but you know if you
07:02want to get somewhere innovative you've
07:04got to dig a different hole can't dig in
07:06the same hole deeper so how are you
07:08going to know where to dig or how are
07:09you just going to allow yourself to get
07:10out of the hole you're in and then I
07:13think it's important to remind yourself
07:15and your stakeholders and you know I
07:16know from PG&E there's a lot of sort of
07:18assumption about what people need who
07:21they are what the solution is
07:23what the kpi's are what the okay ours
07:27are and all of that is important too and
07:29yet and I learned this when I was at
07:31frog you know heart Monessen juror would
07:33say the only thing I care about is that
07:35when this thing has made people love it
07:37and he was serious about that and I
07:39really took that to heart
07:40I got me out of my like I did my part I
07:43don't know one rule would open right
07:46because at the end of the day if you
07:47really care about those people and you
07:49really care about your stakeholders you
07:50really care about your team you really
07:51care about yourself you want that win in
07:54the market and that's a good lever to
07:57use with stakeholders you know anytime
07:58somebody sure sounds like yeah but
08:01I'm not sure I'm asking you if it's
08:03right I think I'm going to ask users if
08:05it's right like thank you for your
08:08after success in the market right so
08:10let's set our okay ours on that not on
08:12executive sign-off or such and so I once
08:17worked at an organization where when I
08:19got there the CEO was signing off a
08:20visual design they wanted to transfer
08:23that process to me thanks now and I
08:25wanted they want me to sign off in a
08:27requirements document and I was like
08:28what exactly does that mean if I sign
08:33off in that requirements document and
08:34that thing fails in the market what did
08:37my signature mean section doesn't mean
08:40anything so remind your stakeholders
08:43that we care about the humans in this
08:45process we care about their opinions and
08:47it can be a good casual use if you want
08:50to punch up a little bit to remind
08:52people of where what they should care
08:54about as well and then I think I hear a
08:57lot from designers is like quite get a
09:00seat at the table I'm having trouble
09:02getting in front of the right people
09:04they don't listen to me they don't let
09:07me talk to users all of that I'm sure
09:10that's true in my experience no one ever
09:12asks you to sit at the table you could
09:15try to force yourself to the table you
09:16can also decide maybe the tables not
09:18where you want to be maybe what you want
09:20to be doing again back to the life we
09:21love our users is like hey do you guys
09:24have your table conversation but now
09:26let's go talk about what humans want
09:28let's go talk about what our users want
09:30and paint that way sort of how many
09:32times you guys have been in meetings
09:34with people who are stuck on the bullet
09:35points and the spreadsheets they can't
09:37have boss someone said can't drive a
09:39parked car hit steer a parked car we got
09:42to get the car out of park so I think
09:44designers are really uniquely positioned
09:46to do this right nobody either there's a
09:48million ideas or no ideas doesn't matter
09:50both lead to the paralysis good things
09:53for designers to be able to make
09:54artifacts to say did you mean like this
09:56and it's fine if they start going when
09:58absolutely not that is not at all what I
09:59meant great now we're talking about a
10:01thing as opposed to some abstraction
10:04it's actually a little while ago at 3m
10:07they ran a study they looked at all the
10:09business plans over the last like five
10:10years or something they decided to ban
10:12bullet points I'm sure this is like a
10:14hot second but they basically looks like
10:17business plans and they were like you
10:18know what the bullet points give us they
10:20say we're to do things cheaper or better
10:23while true not helpful so how are we
10:27going to get people out of that model
10:28leave them with our artifacts leave them
10:30with our research leave them with the
10:31skills that we bring that are maybe a
10:33little lacking in some of our
10:35compatriots you know show them the way
10:38to the love they know the way to the
10:40bottom line maybe sometimes they don't
10:42even know that so make things that get
10:44them kind of add up at a park get to the
10:46car we can do in a 180 but get the car
10:49in a park recently I don't know I was on
10:51Twitter a damn staffer and I are going
10:53back and forth on this idea that you
10:55don't have this realization that one of
10:57the superpowers a lot of designers have
10:59is being able to think in a multi-state
11:01system in our heads and I don't know if
11:05you recognize that that's a superpower
11:06but how many times have you been trying
11:08to have a conversation about a design
11:10and you realize your stakeholders are
11:13utterly confused right and that's why
11:16they have process Maps that's why they
11:18need step by steps because once they get
11:21past a few states it's really
11:23challenging for them so take pride and
11:26not but also acknowledge like the poor
11:28people like that you need to make this
11:30external externalize this for them you
11:33know at looking at a co-worker over
11:35there we have you know the things up on
11:36the wall the reason we put things up on
11:38the wall less you forget is to help
11:40those people manage multi states so that
11:43they don't have to do it in their heads
11:44and I think a lot of times when I see
11:46designer struggling it's because they're
11:47talking past someone who is just not
11:50wired the same way so the empathy we
11:53have for our users doesn't stop there
11:55have empathy for those stakeholders that
11:57we work with as well and okay so then
12:02that's dealing with stakeholders you
12:04know the next kind of level in is like
12:06my team I think about design being human
12:09there's the very real human connections
12:11in a team and I'm going to assume we all
12:13were considered similar models where
12:15it's all about the people right agile
12:18itself will get you wherever faster it
12:22doesn't tell you whether you're building
12:24the right thing you may be learned
12:26through some testing that it could be
12:27better or worse but your team and the
12:30relationship you have there is
12:32invaluable and also I've gotten in these
12:35bigger organizations I really actually
12:36how important that is I think the
12:38temptation at scale is to put it in a
12:41box to make it replicable just make it a
12:44process I mean I PG&E we love a lot of
12:47process that's important too but it's
12:51the people who perform that process that
12:53are actually making that magic happen so
12:55I'm a big fan of hair designs wrote a
12:58thing about it with Christmas Allah
13:00who's definitely a big proponent at frog
13:02we practiced pare design and at Cooper
13:03we practice pare design and it's hard to
13:05pull off by para design what I mean or
13:07two different kinds of people who work
13:10really on a problem together in a very
13:12dedicated way I don't mean the senior
13:15designer in the junior designer it's a
13:17form of pairing but it's really what
13:19happens like when you have a visual
13:20designer in an interaction designer for
13:22a researcher and a prototyper
13:24a product manager and a designer a
13:27developer and a designer because the
13:29magic thing that happens is two people
13:31with really different points of view
13:32authentically engaging with one another
13:34get two radically different solutions
13:37and I don't know about your experience
13:38but I often come into something like I
13:40am so right I am so so right and I work
13:45with a guy Dustin Brooklyn who actually
13:47had a couple places and he is kind of my
13:49opposite from the reasons I love to work
13:51with him and he will challenge me he'll
13:54challenge me she'll say well I don't
13:55think that that's true I think this is
13:57and I think that's absolute re together
14:00we get to a much better place and that
14:02we're actually able to have that
14:04conversation and it's not no order
14:06taking the order giving saty event you
14:08know collaboration it's like truly
14:10honestly two different perspectives so
14:14you know it's a tough thing to pull off
14:15it's something you can do on your own
14:18though right you can seek out someone to
14:20work with you you can seek out someone
14:21who's different than you I encourage you
14:23to do that get your work in front of
14:25them and do that for each other right
14:27how can we set up a democratize critique
14:29system or we can help each other out
14:32providing those points of view the other
14:35thing I realize about teens is that tin
14:38content can't be driven into the ground
14:40I don't know how many of you have you
14:42kind of been in that phase of a project
14:43where you're delivering tactical work
14:44over and over and over again
14:46you kind of lose your steam you probably
14:50lose some creativity so I'm always
14:52trying to give people both something
14:54that is strategic and big-picture as
14:56well as something tactical because also
14:58if you've done big strategic projects at
15:00some point you're like I don't even know
15:02what end is up I'm going to make a
15:03PowerPoint I don't know where this is
15:05going this might be a great idea that no
15:08one will ever see so if you can help
15:10yourself be bimodal and help yourself
15:12think about when I'm way down on the
15:14weeds what should I be thinking about
15:16that's bigger picture and help your team
15:18when there's bigger picture stuff what
15:20can we actually deliver and help that
15:22conversation it'll help your teen health
15:25and it'll help your mental health I also
15:29think that space we just moved at PG&E
15:32to a shiny new floor it's all open and
15:35it's great and we have lots of little
15:37spaces to break out in before we are in
15:39like a boiler room all 70 people one
15:42giant room I didn't have a desk for six
15:45months literally but it was kind of cool
15:48to just get in there and have it be a
15:50messy space it's also nice to now have a
15:53clean space so it's nice to go make a
15:55mess somewhere else so you can come back
15:57to a cleaner space when you need to like
15:59do your work because sometimes to
16:01actually get your work done with a bunch
16:02of clutter it's challenging so how can
16:05you yet let your team have that literal
16:07and metaphorical space to go make messes
16:10and I'm really inven tensional about
16:11messes we kind of back to the like this
16:13is don't be hired us to just follow a to
16:17B to C right they wanted us to come up
16:20with creative new innovative
16:21breakthrough disruptive whatever our
16:23ideas and some of that involves
16:25thrashing around in the woods for a
16:27little while getting lost doing it wrong
16:30figuring that out and having that space
16:32to do that so how many of you have tried
16:34to like id8 with someone that is just
16:37ready to get to the answer and the first
16:39two things that are wrong you're just
16:40like well forget it we're never going to
16:42get there now because everything is
16:43wrong so give yourself some that white
16:45space and you know if you manage
16:47designers help them get white space not
16:49just designers honestly and then the
16:52last thing is about the diversity of
16:54peen of a team this could bash that
16:56paradigm thing diversity isn't for its
17:00it's because diversity creates better
17:02ideas that's why we're going after this
17:04just at an event recently talking to the
17:07CFO of HP and she said you know it is
17:10time for us to start making the dollars
17:12and cents argument for diversity
17:15inclusion it actually has a bottom-line
17:18effect that we need to be talking about
17:20that and not the do-gooder ism other I
17:22was in design consulting we charged
17:24hella money for a crazy breakthrough
17:26ideas so how do we bring that mentality
17:29into the workplace you know and maybe a
17:31place it isn't about consulting to
17:34remind ourselves that that's why we want
17:36different kinds of people because that's
17:37where the good ideas come from and then
17:39just to talk a little bit about me and I
17:44don't mean me but I mean us as designers
17:45and so this is my quote on the wall with
17:49all these beautiful posters feel very
17:52flattered and you know I think it
17:54occurred to me about five years ago that
17:57the expectation in a lot of people's
18:00minds about digital design is that each
18:03one of us given the right same inputs
18:05will end up at the same place and that
18:08is absolutely not true just in the same
18:10way if we were making pottery the way
18:13someone does something is unique to them
18:15and as a person who manage designers
18:18that used to drive me nuts I'd be like
18:19no but I need to get here how'd you get
18:23there and not realize that it's the same
18:26thing it's the same market love it's
18:29just that person's finger prints and so
18:31for you for yourselves it's to validate
18:33that like yeah you have your own style
18:35and that style might be you know a
18:36temporary style in terms of like this is
18:38how I wear a frame or this is our I
18:39prototype but also your ideas have those
18:41fingerprints and probably it's a lot of
18:44people's fingerprints there's a
18:46temptation to want to be the person who
18:48came up with the idea have any of you
18:52ever come up with the idea no it's not a
18:55single hand raise I mean all I'm doing
18:57is facilitating the best ideas and
18:59letting everyone get those fingerprints
19:01all over everything and to celebrate
19:03that as opposed to be like yeah well
19:05that's Joe and you probably could have
19:07done it better but right like no that's
19:09what Joe did good job Joe
19:12five so yeah this is Greg Greg Petrov
19:16about paranoid designers and I've
19:18definitely heard this too I'm being
19:22there's the prima donna stereotype my
19:25way or the highway and there's the pride
19:28in our craft and I've crossed out
19:30designers are paranoid prima donnas who
19:32are proud to put up a candy because
19:35those things could be used not everyone
19:38is or wants to inhabit the prima donna
19:41persona it's a pretty good tool though I
19:44have definitely used it in situations
19:46where somebody is trying to get me to do
19:48something and that moment in time I can
19:50sort of just be like you know I'm gonna
19:52have to think about that I'm going to
19:55need a little space I'm the person you
19:57hired I'm the person whose fingerprints
19:59you wanted on this you're going to have
20:01to respect my authority a little bit you
20:04might not be that person you might be
20:05like no I'm a more humble person that is
20:08totally fine - you may or may not be
20:11paranoid if you are paranoid and you are
20:15thinking that they're always out to get
20:16you you know there's that assume best
20:18intent but use that that's a bessa
20:20signal to you there's a problem going on
20:22right so instead of getting paranoid and
20:23being a victim about it hey put your
20:26problem-solving skills on that if you
20:28don't feel included how could you change
20:29that conversation who do you need to get
20:31in front of don't wait for someone to
20:33come to you so hey I need to talk to you
20:35you're not listening to me you're not
20:37and then you know being proud of our
20:39craft again I think people in digital
20:42design and in the design field
20:44I don't know especially in tech the
20:47coders and the product managers have big
20:50clout and designers can sometimes feel
20:53like well we're just designers it's not
20:57that again this is a real craft it's a
21:00craft that's been developing for a long
21:01time I know that you are all good at it
21:04demonstrate that and be proud of the
21:06work that you do and make sure others
21:08know that you are that it's not you're
21:09not just a cog in the machine
21:10you're not just someone who can like
21:12make some pixels you're a problem solver
21:15you're a creative thinker and you've led
21:16them on a new path you've got a
21:19deliverer don't get me wrong you can't
21:20just pontificate about this but if you
21:23can show them and we're just doing a
21:26confident design problem but that moment
21:29still happened where we came up with two
21:30things they had never thought of before
21:32and that was their moment of like oh
21:33maybe really not you're talking about so
21:36okay so have some pride and then I don't
21:40know about you guys it's hard as a
21:42creative person in an analytical world
21:44right there's deadlines and all this
21:46like forced stuff I love my relationship
21:51with the muse she has been very good to
21:53she is not consistent I have learned to
21:58not force her I try to be open to when
22:02I'm creative and when I'm not quite
22:04feeling it if that's a good time to go
22:07quit your own work that's a good time to
22:09go get with someone else and crit their
22:10work that's a good time to redline stuff
22:13that's a good time to document stuff
22:14good ways to think about being bimodal
22:18and have this conversation with those
22:22around you right be able to express I
22:24think as today is a day where I'm going
22:26to need a little space I'm not feeling
22:28you can bring out the word muse or not
22:31you can use your own language there some
22:32people might be weirded out by that but
22:33it's a thing right like there is this
22:36phenomena we have a Greek myth about it
22:40you know acknowledge that we are not
22:42machines who are going to be on all the
22:44time we are creative people and frankly
22:47developers are too and I think they have
22:48the same issue and sometimes what you
22:50might perceive in other designers or
22:51other team members is running up against
22:53that something's asking you for the good
22:55juice and you're just not there so give
22:58yourself a little space I am a big
23:01snowboarder what I learned from
23:04snowboarding is especially what it's
23:07high-stakes I can't be distracted I have
23:11to be really focused I have to be able
23:13to bend my knees and take a deep breath
23:14and that same thing happens in the
23:16business world it just made a few if you
23:19think about all of the amazing people
23:21even the Zuckerberg zand the Bezos and
23:23all those people somewhere in their
23:25success in their career success was good
23:28luck we love to think it's all
23:30meritocracy and all of the best people
23:31are at the top thank everyone this also
23:33knows as utter everybody has
23:36had it I've had a million lucky
23:38breakthroughs I would not be here today
23:39it but how are you going to be open to
23:42the luck when it comes because like the
23:44muse it's going to come on its own
23:46timeline can't force it so how are you
23:49okay enough that work how are you not
23:51grinding away so that when it knocked on
23:54the door you're like I'm too busy
23:56I'm triple booked right now it's part of
23:58that again is being able to have
24:00conversations with your manager again if
24:02you are a manager how are you supporting
24:04your team in that way
24:05how are you letting them cut knees bent
24:07taking deep breaths and feeling
24:09confident right so if you catch yourself
24:11or others of your team members feeling
24:14stressed out like let's check in on each
24:17other let's ask out what's going on hey
24:19it's personal we don't need to get into
24:21the personal but if it's something that
24:23we can help each other out with it
24:25benefits us all so again where this is
24:27not a 2 B 2 C 2 Z there's a moment in
24:31there and creativity where magic happens
24:33and you can't I mean we all know this
24:35experience I don't really know where
24:36that idea came from it's our communities
24:38in his bath like bolt from the blue oh
24:41that's that idea finally you've got to
24:43be able to pay attention to it all right
24:47you know some types of you might have
24:48had the experience I have from
24:49consulting where I had the best idea we
24:53delivered it it never went anywhere and
24:55someone called me like six years later
24:57looks like I found this printed how long
25:01ago this was printed deliverable with
25:03your business card in the back and I
25:05looked you up in the Internet
25:06I want to tell you we really want to do
25:08this idea it's like wow you're six years
25:12late but hey let me see if I can help
25:16you out because maybe it is the right
25:17idea how do we catch surf the wave as it
25:20happens but just to kind of rewind and
25:24recap here you know there's the users
25:26and Yawar user centered designers the
25:28thing we want to remember is that you
25:31know empathy is a big loaded word but we
25:34are doing things for and with people
25:35because we care about them ultimately
25:37more than anything else more than the
25:40paycheck when we're talking about
25:41stakeholders you know something to think
25:44about stakeholders at their core your
25:46relationship with them can be about
25:47helping them experience design so you
25:49know again I just started at PG and I'm
25:51talking to a bunch of people who are
25:53is CAD of substations I don't know what
25:57you're talking about
25:58and I've given the spiel and I've given
26:01the talk but the thing that works beyond
26:05the training is letting them experience
26:07it it's that workshop where you took
26:08them through the journey mapping or
26:10building personas or prototyping that's
26:14where that breakthrough comes - there's
26:15no like dancing about architecture here
26:17help them experience it and that might
26:19take a little bit of going back to that
26:20prima donna thing of like hey just trust
26:22come on this ride with me a comet's you
26:25will be fun you know try that out make
26:27sure that they have fun in that
26:28experience as experienced designers but
26:31you can now help you out at scale I
26:35think this means focusing those people
26:37who are not designers on the so that I
26:39can part of the user story
26:41everybody loves the as an X I need Y
26:45part of the user story so that I can
26:48what right that's how you can help your
26:50stakeholders get them really laser
26:52focused on what's the business benefit
26:54what are we enabling I'll handle the
26:56solution there you know the tech team
26:59will handle the solution there no one
27:01else can really and rebuild them up
27:03we're relying on you mr. business person
27:07as a business person to know the
27:08business value and help them focus on
27:11that at a team level I think my key
27:14takeaways are about that diversity of
27:17opinion diversity of approaches
27:20diversity of skills with enough space
27:23and kind of air cover so again as
27:24somebody who's teams of people it's
27:28important for me to use my clout to buy
27:30them time I know that my bosses do a
27:33great job of digging big upping me at
27:36work and I have to do that for other
27:37people we can do that for each other so
27:39that there's some air cover there so
27:41that it's not like you're not out there
27:42on the ledge and if you made one mistake
27:44you're kind of dead like nobody should
27:47be in up that situation let's give each
27:50other and give your reports of you're a
27:52manager of that airspace at scale and
27:54again I kind of go back to the like I
27:56wish we could just put it in a box I
27:59don't think you can I think that what
28:01teams that scale means is that they're
28:02actual authentic connections between
28:06militate them we can do stuff like this
28:08that allows you all to come together as
28:10human beings and meet each other and
28:13network and whatnot but there's no
28:15process there's no tool that's going to
28:19make the team stick together so you know
28:23be good at that I really love I see a
28:25lot of people in my office it's the
28:27eating lunch it's the night going for
28:29runs it's I'm not that person but I'll
28:31you lunch with you I'm not going to run
28:33with you but that's cool
28:35they can run together right and so how
28:37are you participating in that larger
28:39community and this is again like a great
28:41example of that there's probably at
28:43different levels that that can happen
28:44and then at the personal core you know
28:49that's you leaving your fingerprints all
28:51over everything and then it's scale your
28:53helping other people and you're not
28:54being the person that feels like I have
28:56to be recognized as the you know
28:58creative fairy dust magic maker a lot of
29:02debate and user centered design about
29:04ego driven design versus user centered
29:06design you can have an ego in user
29:10centered design that's the fingerprints
29:12part yes you have an opinion you have
29:14experience you have a gut you have
29:15intuition all of that is priceless
29:18direct it toward users fantastic and
29:21help other people that are stay on that
29:23and again come your your leaders your
29:25stakeholders can understand that too
29:27that there's many people's fingerprints
29:30on this you know and I've see this I'll
29:32see this among product owners or
29:34stakeholders where like they need to be
29:35seen as the one with having the idea and
29:37you can take this opportunity to make
29:38sure we're all synthesizing everyone's
29:40idea if it was their idea how come it
29:43didn't work last time you tried it
29:44because they probably did so but I do
29:49some QA right and this is my daughter's
29:51drawing she wanted to make sure you all
29:53knew that but thank you so much I loved
29:56any questions you guys have yes thank
30:01I have mic here so take some questions
30:06from the audience here I feel you on the
30:08speaking to the engineers part I grew up
30:11with engineers my dad's Emmy and my
30:14grandfather was a seee and so when I
30:16speak about design they they kind of
30:18glaze over a little bit so when you
30:21working with your computers at work have
30:24you sat down with them and try to
30:25understand them from the substations
30:27that they to speak about have you tried
30:29to learn about you know PG&E and what
30:32they do and from the engineering side to
30:34actually speak to them better yeah
30:35absolutely and that's part of the reason
30:37I took the job so I'm not working on
30:39consumer stuff so much I'm working on
30:41tools for our workforce and so I love
30:43the ride-along I mean to a man and
30:46they've been mostly then you ask them
30:48about their favorite part of the job
30:49they're like I like being alone in my
30:51truck they're all crystal clear on that
30:55benefit right it's that autonomy you
30:57know they have they get to be judgements
31:00and like really trying to understand I
31:02can't quite understand substation
31:04engineering but I can understand the
31:05mentality of someone who's working a
31:07super high risk situation like people
31:09are injured and killed working with
31:12electricity and gas right so again back
31:14to that empathy of like I'm absolutely
31:16trying to understand them I'm not
31:18necessarily trying to get them to
31:19understand me in the same way like back
31:21to that like I want them to experience a
31:23great thing if at the end of the day
31:24they still don't know what design is I
31:26don't care that's fine I want them to
31:28love the thing I made literally that is
31:30my bottom line and maybe they learn a
31:32little something about design that's
31:33cool I know I was with one guy he said
31:36well my product design that's
31:38interesting and yes and look at my
31:39coworker what'd she do I said she's a
31:42scrum master he who started laughing
31:44he's like what at what is that I've
31:46never even heard those words put
31:49together before is that rugby and part
31:53of obsessing views are just like that's
31:54cool dude you don't need to understand
31:56spare mastering sorry scrum master
31:58Academy diva so my question is that I
32:05don't know if you have experience that
32:07you have to work with people that
32:08already have a tension in duration ship
32:11and how to try to repair so that you
32:14and move on and do good looks yes the
32:17therapy situation and no I don't know if
32:21you're talking about you're talking
32:21about like you and that person have a
32:23bad relationship or they just in general
32:25have been burned by designer not
32:26necessarily between you and our audience
32:30but in the whole group there some
32:32tension yeah I mean that's the reality
32:34of a team right where's one of the
32:36storming norming forming reforming blows
32:43up in the end the array go back together
32:44it's a match that's a part of life right
32:46and so I think part of what it is about
32:48being a human centered designer and kind
32:51of what I'm emphasizing here is that you
32:52should we should have tolerance for that
32:54humanity and be okay with that I've know
32:57you guys me shocked I get told that I'm
32:59too aggressive and bossy all the time
33:04it's fine I am hella bossy but part of
33:09it is like that's who I am
33:11you know I'm 45 years old I'm not going
33:12to die I've tried can't be any less
33:14bossy so bring your authentic self to
33:18that and be focused on the goal of
33:20pleasing your users and winning their
33:22hearts and minds and see if you can work
33:24through all that stuff see if you can be
33:26the bigger person again we have great
33:29skills to break through the issues we
33:32can get people to be kind of
33:33relentlessly positive and I didn't work
33:37with super I've never worked with the
33:38like super negative goth designer I'm
33:42sure they exist but even the like kind
33:45of most cynical all black wearing
33:48designers I know still our lot are
33:51problem solvers at their core so they're
33:53not going to walk up to that tension and
33:56just tolerate it they're driven we're
33:58all driven to address that problem so
34:00you know be patient take some space do
34:03stuff that is not hitting that problem
34:05on the head all the time and squat to
34:06lunch let's go for a run let's like do
34:08whatever that is and I would be very
34:10vocal about the fact that like this
34:13debate this tension totally fine in fact
34:16if it weren't there I might be asking
34:19why why is that why are we all getting
34:23along are we getting the best ideas like
34:25that - pear design like
34:27why do I even need to be here so I get
34:29the question sometimes my product owner
34:31is drawing wireframes for me are they
34:34any good because if they're a good
34:36designer like you could be like I'm
34:38going to go over here you could totally
34:39solve that you've got this thing like go
34:42again you don't have to solve every
34:43problem so be that bigger person is my
34:46advice what it's worth thank you so much
34:50speaking to the theme of design is human
34:53I was hoping you could speak to ethics a
34:56little bit and maybe back to your time
34:57as a consultant when when does human
35:00Center design offer us a chance to to
35:03sort of touch ethics because well we are
35:06focused on the user maybe even if we're
35:08providing something for them that's
35:09that's exactly what they want is that
35:12really better for them as people and
35:14then maybe speaking to your experience
35:16of PGE when do we have to think about
35:18something like the environment for
35:21example and when does that come yeah I
35:23mean it's a very live conversation right
35:26now in fact I think when we met I was
35:28kind of talking about ethics and AI
35:29right that's a big point for us as
35:33designers I think the thing again I
35:37would go back to being user centered now
35:39if somebody says I want an easier way to
35:42do X you know we know to go past that
35:44what's the Henry Ford quote if you ask
35:47them they just say they wanted a faster
35:48so listen past that what are you
35:51actually missing in your life and is
35:54this going to fill the void I know if I
35:56start doing too much online shopping I'm
35:58like maybe see there's something going
36:00on trying to fill that hole all right so
36:03how do we external eyes for other people
36:05for our users that there are also like
36:07pretty tactical things that you could do
36:09in terms of ethics like the what
36:13recently there was some science had
36:15found the scientific answer the beauty
36:17the absolute perfect nostril size for
36:20beauty was on the Today Show you want to
36:22own some perfect nose Kate Middleton got
36:27it all there's two white newscasters
36:30having the Spanish two african-american
36:31newscasters on either side of them who
36:32are just like nostril fuss seriously
36:36like did nobody else think about the
36:39funnel going into the stud
36:40and how whether it was broad enough so I
36:42think there are things we can do to poke
36:44on like our algorithm building we can
36:46poke on our automation building when I
36:49was working on the surgical robot I
36:50would see something in the surgery and I
36:52would think I'll design an answer to
36:54that and I'd come back and the
36:54developers would say oh we're just going
36:56to automate that does the doctor want
37:00that automated can you want a minute
37:02what if you automate it badly like it's
37:04some point we still need to be we are an
37:06interface between the algorithm and the
37:10human and then in terms of that you know
37:12PJ in the environment you know the
37:15organization at large is very focused on
37:17that we have a huge target and like
37:19looking salutes 90% of renewables by
37:222050 50% renew I gotta get that speaking
37:26point down but you know our leadership
37:28sets these and actually the people of
37:30California have set targets for us and
37:33that's a great way to do that too which
37:35is again to say we're all focus on this
37:36end goal right let's measure ourselves
37:39on that end goal not on some random step
37:42somebody decided to take on a Tuesday
37:44because they thought it was a good idea
37:45if I may push back just a little bit I'm
37:48really interested though and when maybe
37:50when they come in conflict with each
37:51other so in the case of like consulting
37:54or let's say the shot the example of
37:55shopping theory there's this this
37:58emotional needed being filled by
38:00shopping likely the client on on design
38:06the interface for that shopping is not
38:07really concerned with their emotional
38:09needs and in fact it benefits them to
38:11capitalize on that so when is the
38:13opportunity to like innovate a little
38:16bit on the way we apply ethics maybe
38:18yeah I mean no technology is utterly
38:23benign but we don't have to be
38:26Oppenheimer's right Oppenheimer invented
38:29this bomb for those of you don't know
38:30that reference so I think there's some
38:33gray area there like if you've gone to
38:34work for a retailer you want to work for
38:39any retailer like that's the business
38:41you got into you don't think that's a
38:43healthy business probably don't work
38:44there but if you're actually in a
38:46situation we're being asked like what
38:48was the latest Ober screw-up
38:51whatever it was somebody on Twitter was
38:53like at what point we start asking about
38:56the engineers who say yes to that stuff
38:57right so there is a like on being asked
38:59to do something that I don't agree with
39:00and you can decide what stand you want
39:02to take there all the way up to and I'm
39:04out but I don't know that you also have
39:06to like walk into e-commerce and try to
39:08say I'm going to make ecommerce not
39:11addictive for people who are having a
39:13down day because I don't know that you
39:15can solve that from that position you
39:16might want to make an app that deletes
39:19those apps from my phone when they
39:22dejected my pad right whatever I'm like
39:25winging it here about depends on yeah to
39:28interrupt that so I think there's not a
39:31queen in my mind there's not a clean
39:45all right no one else has a question all
39:53right well thank you very much thank you
