00:03do you guys see that being the case
00:05where with enough time like that is the
00:07reality where like most things that we
00:10see online are not quote unquote real
00:13and then also how does that change our
00:15relationship with the things
00:17that we see online I mean I think we
00:19could argue about real in reality you
00:21know right but like yeah I look to my
00:24Instagram feed and it's a lot of like
00:26Cryptid pranks or things that are you
00:30know LED make people believe that are
00:31real it you know people that have been
00:33highly altered and situation in context
00:35that are presented Israelites on a
00:37private jet when you don't actually own
00:39that yet okay uh and so I think I think
00:41the sliding scale of reality will will
00:44probably continue to move in the
00:45direction it's been heading in but
00:47beyond that you know the thing that I'm
00:49most excited about is is this kind of
00:51race to the bottom and a lot of media is
00:54going to like that bottom is going to
00:56hit far quicker because of AI it's going
00:57to be really easy to be good at things
01:00yeah good at making music good at making
01:02visual art good at you know creating
01:04content it's going to be really hard to
01:06be excellent and because you know models
01:08effectively are are backward looking
01:10data kind of gets more data and you're
01:12gonna have some like nasty feedback
01:13loops not entirely just similar from
01:15like what happened to Netflix when they
01:17kind of woke up and one day everyone
01:18realized that every show was a chef's
01:21table for a different industry and they
01:23were like wait I like this format and
01:25clearly the algorithm said it works but
01:27I don't feel I don't feel like I've
01:29gained any nutrients from this I've just
01:31kind of been satiated and I'm looking
01:33for nutrients and so I think we're gonna
01:35have rapid Ascent where things feel
01:39better on the cervical or looking for
01:40substance and that's when I think we're
01:42really supposed to rise to the top they
01:45augment this technology with unique
01:47skill sets do you think that maybe some
01:51maybe some or misaligned substance with
01:53what we just talk about like reality
01:55because I could see how people over time
01:59will be like okay my response to this
02:01Everything feels fake I want again like
02:04things that are truly in like meat space
02:08um and that's what they look for but to
02:09your point just because it's in meat
02:12space doesn't mean it's like real and
02:13has substance right and so it can be
02:16just as manufactured and less creative
02:19than actually something that is
02:21technically virtual but has this like
02:24Dimension to it has this depth um this
02:26creativity to it and so I just wanted to
02:28double click on that that like I guess
02:30that relationship yeah if you hit the
02:33question and typing in post for a very
02:34long time I think you know even since
02:35the emergence of like Contemporary Art
02:37right yeah there's you have this
02:39constant dialogue where it's like Mom
02:40and Dad walk into the museum and they're
02:42like what are these scribbles a
02:44three-year-old could do that you know
02:45yeah and then they walk in front of this
02:47like Photo real landscaping and they're
02:49like no that that's something I would
02:51pay for because they associate the
02:53ability to kind of like taking their
02:54Edge from you know someone's eye and
02:57translate it onto a page with like craft
02:59and skill and I think people are
03:01constantly doing the same right there
03:02aren't really good ways of understanding
03:04what is good and what is bad and so
03:06subjective that people are looking for
03:08concrete measures of what is good and
03:10what is bad and authenticity is one
03:12that's been tossed around quite a bit
03:14and I think people look for things that
03:16resonate as authentic and often
03:18associate them with like they're playing
03:20an instrument they have a craft or
03:22they're doing and I think the reality is
03:24some of the most authentic things in the
03:26world of me are like K-pop where it's
03:27entirely scripted and fictional but it's
03:30presented in our super authentic way
03:31it's saying like hey they're going to be
03:33so entertaining we've plucked the most
03:35beautiful kids from Korean middle
03:36schools give them the best
03:38choreographers and the best songs and
03:40I've taught them to speak like Justin
03:41Timberlake like you're gonna love it and
03:43there's no deception there and I think
03:45that like young people resonate with
03:47that I think it's harder for adults
03:48who've been who've been kind of primed
03:51on these ways of understanding
03:52contemporary art that yeah and and I
03:54think ads technology evolves in ways of
03:58changing those rules evolved they feel
04:00very uncomfortable and fall back on the
04:02kind of like Frameworks they understand
04:04yeah and actually these virtual
04:05influencers I think are biggest in Korea
04:09um and parts of Asia which is
04:10interesting it's it's maybe a cultural
04:12thing maybe it's an age thing
04:14um so yeah it's fascinating to I like
04:16that you use the word deception because
04:17you're all being deceived in ways and in
04:19terms of what's being put in front of us
04:21but like we we do fall back on these
04:23easy mechanics of like is it real or is
04:26it not yeah 100 I think we talked about
04:28this other day as abroad of like
04:29nobody's gonna like see a movie of
04:31Mickey Mouse through the early days and
04:33be like oh this isn't real how dare you
04:35guys try to present this as real right
04:37it's too clear yeah and when the bikes
04:39don't get blurred at least for those of
04:41us who like are used to something
04:42different we have a lot of hangouts or
04:45reactions to things or like
04:46misunderstandings of what they are and
04:48to me it all comes back to storytelling
04:50it comes back to me thinking that
04:52storytelling is one of the most
04:53important things that we have as humans
04:55and the way we connect with others the
04:58um emotionally and all these other
04:59things I think it's just one of the most
05:00unique things about us as animals that
05:02debrises from anything else right you
05:04know I think that enhancing our ability
05:05to tell those stories especially with
05:07the world that I see coming right this
05:09more virtual world this more inclusive
05:12this three-dimensional state of
05:13computing metaverse whatever you call it
05:14I view having digital humans be able to
05:17be able to tell those stories as an
05:18essential piece of that right and I want
05:20to help make that like book a certain
05:21way and feel a certain way and allow
05:23people to tell stories in this new way
05:24so when you when you think of it that
05:26way all this other stuff feels like
05:27noise right well yeah I'm actually
05:28curious from both of you over the
05:31numerous years you've been doing this
05:33what pushback did you see early on and
05:36also have you seen any of that pushback
05:38change like these ideas around ethics
05:40what's real what's not should you be
05:42doing this I mean yeah so many that was
05:44part of like the premise though is that
05:46like we were going to be first to the
05:47door and catch all the arrows like we
05:49were gonna like make all the mistakes
05:51quite publicly but I think the really
05:53lovely part about that is that we get to
05:54kind of like set the tone for how these
05:57things are understood going forward like
05:58it was pretty clear that people were
05:59gonna like Leverage generative media you
06:01know virtual influencer virtual
06:03characters to you know shape our reality
06:06it's just like it it it's it's too
06:08tempting not to and so how do we go and
06:10kind of like set some boundaries and
06:13some some ways of Behaving such that
06:15people following our path and kind of
06:16make things that are maybe more noble
06:17and righteous and other people could
06:20um that said some really obvious things
06:21I mean like I think people were really
06:24concerned about virtual characters and
06:27people having accounts right like it
06:30seems quite silly now where they're like
06:32wait a minute how can this like fake
06:33person of a verified account
06:35and at some point you had to kind of
06:37extend that into like wait a minute like
06:39what is Coca-Cola if not a fiction and
06:42why do they have a blue check mark they
06:44were interested in like startup land
06:45like what was like startup L Jackson or
06:47like all these Twitter accounts that
06:49were like parodies and so a lot of those
06:51things still quite passe now there are
06:54interesting conversations that I think
06:55are happening around AI nfts that feel
06:59very familiar to what we did where it's
07:01like this is new and scary and I don't
07:03like it so I'm going to be upset about
07:05it even though I'm like uninformed about
07:07it and so I think that's going to be
07:09participant forever as over to window
07:11shifts but a lot of things that we did
07:13feel quite passe right now where it was
07:15like a blue check mark next year
07:17yesterday like yeah that's fine totally
