00:00this is like a virtual world one of the
00:02environments that that we have in here
00:04it's um you can kind of see like the the
00:05social part of it people's movements and
00:08physics it's all synced in real times so
00:10if you kind of walk up close and then
00:11just kind of give it that shooting
00:17go first shot first shot that is
00:20actually kind of rare then we have
00:23spatial voice so you can start to hear
00:24people from over there whoa there we
00:28go we could also go to a different
00:30environment hopping you into an NBA
00:31court really wild um environments that
00:34are often very tough to get access to in
00:38life can I do uh some tricks you can do
00:42some tricks um you can kind of go behind
00:44your back and stuff um okay and then if
00:46you press that trigger when it's getting
00:48close to your hand it'll magnet there um
00:50like you you got you can do some spin
00:52moves um you know they're they're kind
00:54of doing a bunch of moves over there
00:57um there we go all right let me try
01:01try that's awesome all right it is
01:04September 28th and the last two days
01:07have been all about meta connect So Meta
01:09has released a bunch of new information
01:11they're releasing the quest 3 this fall
01:13which is their first mixed reality
01:15headset they're partnering with rayb
01:17bands to release these mixed reality
01:19glasses that use AI some really cool
01:21stuff including Mark going on Lex
01:23Redman's podcast to talk about this and
01:26they did that in VR and there was one
01:28line that really stood out to me and
01:30right now we're we're kind of sitting in
01:31a dark room which um you know is is you
01:34know familiar for for your podcast but I
01:37think part of the the vision for this
01:38over time is um is you know not just
01:42having this be like a video call I mean
01:44that's fine it's it's cool or it feels
01:47like it's immersive but um you know you
01:49can you can do a video call on your
01:50phone the thing that you can do in the
01:52metaverse that is different from what
01:54you can do on a phone is like doing
01:56stuff where you're physically there
01:57together and and participating in things
01:59together and we could play games like
02:00this so we had no idea that Mark and Lex
02:02were going to record that podcast but we
02:04did know that meta connect was on its
02:06way and so we wanted to show you the
02:08very realworld experiences that already
02:11exist on many of these devices and so we
02:13did this by partnering with gy class VR
02:15one of the top rated applications on the
02:17quest we basically went into VR with one
02:19of their co-founders Paul and Paul
02:21taught me how to dunk dribble how to
02:23really play basketball in VR and we
02:25talked about the implications the social
02:27implications the technological
02:28requirements in order to put this in the
02:30hands of the masses and of course we
02:32also talked about AI I hope you enjoyed
02:35this episode I hope you don't laugh too
02:36much at me learning to
02:38dunk oh hold both of those and then vote
02:45o o do I have the the goggle oh yeah
02:49I've got the gogg as a reminder the
02:51content here is for informational
02:53purposes only should not be taken as
02:54legal business tax or investment advice
02:57or be used to evaluate any investment or
02:59security and is not directed at any
03:01investors or potential investors in any
03:03a6z fund for more details please see
03:18disclosures here we go hello hey good to
03:23see you at the beach I know yeah this is
03:26and then people typically go in the
03:27Gazebo and that's where they hang out
03:30okay should we go over and have a chat
03:32talk about the future of VR this is so
03:35cool this is the first time I can say
03:36that for sure that an a16z podcast has
03:39been done in VR so let's let's draw this
03:42Line in the Sand I hope we'll do many
03:43more let's do it that sounds great first
03:45thing I want to ask after doing that for
03:48the first time is just you mentioned
03:50that it's one of the most popular quest
03:52apps currently um what goes into that
03:55like why do you think people are coming
03:57back because there are so many apps that
03:59kind of fail or people try once and then
04:02you know there's also a suite of apps
04:04that people have just never heard of yep
04:06I mean I think there's there's kind of
04:08two things um one like when we first
04:12launched it you know there was very
04:14little in the in the experience like you
04:16you you couldn't even actually move
04:17around or dribble the ball but our
04:19hypothesis was like if you had a shared
04:21interest in basketball with other folks
04:24and we could put you in an environment
04:25with eight other people where you could
04:26hear them they're both kind of they're
04:28all kind of going through the same
04:29experience they would want to come back
04:31and that actually ended up happening
04:33like um you know we had we made a post
04:35on Reddit and there was like a few
04:37hundred people that tried it out and all
04:38of a sudden they were in a Discord being
04:40like how can't I move around yet why
04:42can't I drible like they were asking for
04:44a lot of things related to basketball
04:45but they were coming back just to chat
04:47with people and hang out with someone
04:49who might be in another country or um or
04:52but but they share this common interest
04:54and so that's definitely one of the
04:56biggest drivers um within VR today like
04:59um you know most of the top 10 13 15
05:03most played VR apps on the quest they're
05:06they're social it's ways to share
05:08experiences with people from around the
05:10world um in a really immersive and
05:12expressive way um you know there's no
05:14other technology outside of VR today
05:18that gets you as close to expressing
05:20yourself like you would in real life um
05:23it's not all the way there but it's
05:24close um and that that allows for way
05:27more interesting social interactions
05:29yeah it almost sounds like social is
05:31effectively the killer app that we've
05:33been looking for with VR and I I mean
05:35even on Zoom I'm constantly thinking
05:37about the fact that like this cannot be
05:38the end State like this box that we have
05:41like floating heads it like that cannot
05:43be the best that we get to in terms of
05:45communication and digital social
05:48interaction and so you're saying that
05:50basically this is a step ahead but I'd
05:52love for you to speak to where we are in
05:55that trajectory of VR because I mean I
05:57think it has taken a while and I think a
06:00lot of people think we're still in this
06:01trough of disillusionment and so I guess
06:04first would you say that we're still
06:05there um and then also what will it take
06:08really for VR to be the everyday
06:11household activity or not even activity
06:13right something that just integrates
06:14into your daily life the way that an
06:16iPhone might or the way that you know uh
06:19you know your computer and watching
06:20Netflix might the expectations that
06:23people have are these headsets VR AR
06:25headsets are going to replace a
06:27smartphone and they're going to be
06:28something you always have on um it
06:30creates you know digital layers on top
06:32of your everyday world that um that all
06:34of a sudden makes everything you know
06:36digital and it brings the internet
06:38everywhere and I think over the long run
06:40something like that is is going to be
06:42inevitable but there's um you know
06:45there's all these steps along the way to
06:47get there and the way to kind of you
06:48know replace a smartphone is isn't to
06:51just kind of build you know a device
06:53that's great for gaming it's a device
06:55that has value to you in all parts of
06:57your life so that you might want to you
06:58know use it in all parts of your life so
07:01um I think you know the way to get there
07:02is all of these different use cases that
07:04bring you back wanting to use this
07:06device um just like with a smartphone um
07:09you have an app for your camera you have
07:11an app for navigation um all of these
07:13things that might have required special
07:15Hardware before it became an app um and
07:17I think with these headsets um what
07:20we're turning into apps are experiences
07:22so things like hanging out under a
07:25gazebo with someone from a few thousand
07:26miles away you know getting you're
07:28downloading an NBA basketball court to
07:31your to your house um you're not
07:32downloading a camera you're downloading
07:34a whole experience um and so I think the
07:37the big idea is like there's going to be
07:38an app for all of your experience maybe
07:40we can speak a little bit to two other
07:42things that maybe relate to the Arc of
07:45VR one is the social side and one is the
07:48technical side just tell me what you're
07:50seeing like are are people already
07:52adhering to this and saying this is
07:53wonderful or their parents who were like
07:56no Take that thing off like go hang out
07:58in the quote unquote
07:59real world the most common comment is
08:02like just go outside um or like why
08:05don't you just do that in real life
08:06you'll get better at the sport um and
08:08the funny part is we don't see that as
08:11much for someone playing a console
08:13basketball game or a console sports game
08:15or or on mobile that's that's kind of
08:18like you know what what gets me excited
08:20um isn't that you know VR and these
08:22Technologies are going to be replacing
08:24everyday life like we're already
08:26spending most of our lives on our phones
08:29on T you know playing games on TV he's
08:31watching content on TV and those are
08:33just such um like the the humanity and
08:36the expressiveness and how social those
08:38moments are are just so much worse than
08:40if you you know got off the couch and
08:43instead of learning a bunch of
08:44controller combinations to get better at
08:46you know a basketball game you're
08:48actually moving um and all of a sudden
08:50that can also expand the sport and make
08:52you feel a lot more fulfilled less
08:54lonely you're connecting with people on
08:55a much deeper level so I just see VR and
08:58and and these Technologies is a way to
09:00level up these um these really kind of
09:03like um you know low impact digital
09:06experiences that we're getting used to
09:08and make them feel a lot more like real
09:10life and a lot more personal maybe we
09:12can jump to the technical aspect because
09:15there's been you know the Apple Vision
09:16Pro has the announcement has come out
09:19soon we're going to uh hear from meta uh
09:22in terms of meta connect and what
09:23they're doing next tell us a little bit
09:26more about what you see on the horizon
09:28technically and if you see any important
09:30unlocks that would allow us to have just
09:32you know much better experiences and
09:34allow more people to want to participate
09:37yeah so I think there's um there's
09:40technologies that move the ball forward
09:42on use cases that we already know work
09:44in in VR and AR um so new devices uh
09:48especially like new VR devices like you
09:50know the next Quest and you're we're
09:51going to see a lot more they can they
09:53could do a lot more in terms of
09:54performance and the resources that they
09:56give a game so like for instance um like
09:58Quest too it's it's incredible like we
10:01could run an NBA court like we got
10:03crowds like all of that kind of stuff um
10:05but it's running on on an old smartphone
10:08chip um and the fact that any of this is
10:10running sometimes kind of blows my mind
10:13um we've got like customizable avatars
10:15like you know we have you know people
10:17that could hop in and um and connect
10:19with each other and sync that physics in
10:20real time um the next devices will just
10:23allow us to create um you know more
10:26immersive experiences like we'll have
10:28more resources to create larger
10:30environments like bigger worlds like
10:32have more people in these worlds you
10:34could imagine like a car driving by and
10:36all this kind of stuff that um you
10:38expect from you know maybe console
10:39experiences will be able to start
10:41leveling leveling up these spaces make
10:44them more social make them more
10:45immersive but where things get really
10:46interesting is some of the new use cases
10:48so like even for us um if you have a
10:51device where you can see your
10:52surrounding environment um and maybe the
10:54hand tracking is much better maybe it
10:56has real time object detection um all
10:59all of a sudden like you could put your
11:00controllers down um and you could have
11:02an interactive experience with a real
11:04basketball um and you could start
11:05tracking um you know how many shots
11:08you've made you could do dribbling
11:09drills you could have a coach uh that's
11:11animated in front of you that were
11:13trying to match your motion to them so
11:15all of a sudden that unlocks a training
11:17use case which is like a really big
11:19Market um in a a deeper Fitness use case
11:22so I think piece by piece we'll just see
11:24um you know these new devices unlocking
11:27very valuable use cases that um I think
11:30it'll it'll give you more reasons to use
11:32the device every day and start to have
11:34it really be a replacement U for the
11:36smartphone as well maybe you could speak
11:37to some of those opportunities I mean
11:39you're obviously working hard on gym
11:41class and it's going well it's one of
11:43the top rated apps in the quest store
11:45but what else do you think is just like
11:47an untapped opportunity given let's say
11:49the next 3 to 5 years of technical
11:51advancements that you see coming you
11:53know with a social technology like this
11:56um there's a lot of you know companies
11:58and meta doing this they're kind of
11:59going after how do I build kind of like
12:02this big platform of open worlds where
12:04everyone can create whatever they want
12:06um and maybe that'll lead to this
12:07metaverse um but I think the the best
12:10way to go about it and this is kind of
12:12like the the dimension that we're going
12:13about it in is like um we're focused on
12:16one interest which is basketball right
12:18now and that's the reason why you
12:19download um and then you stay for the
12:21people and the relationships you're
12:23making and kind of like the back and
12:24forth um interactions that you get um
12:27and so I think the biggest opportunity
12:28to folks is like pick an interest and
12:30create the like the simulation
12:33experience where people can really go in
12:36and really dive deep into it and make
12:37friends around that interest um and make
12:40it as realistic as possible so it feels
12:42like you're having that experience um
12:44and and from there um you know you could
12:47expand to so many different things or
12:49just focus on that interest and you're
12:51kind of building almost like a digital
12:53online representation of all the things
12:56that happen within that interest in real
12:58life like with basketball you know
12:59fashion culture um and people you know
13:01people want new shoes in here and new
13:03clothes and all that stuff like all of
13:04those things start to become
13:06opportunities for you digitally you know
13:08really just picking something specific
13:10and making it great um and and making it
13:12social there's there's just kind of like
13:14endless opportunity there within the
13:15space let's end off on on a question
13:18that I feel like I have to ask in in
13:20this era but where does AI come into all
13:22this like I feel like people think Ai
13:24and VR are two separate things but to me
13:26as you were talking there about the
13:28different problem to be solved and the
13:30worlds to be built that AI has to be
13:33part of this like how are you thinking
13:34about that new technology integrating
13:36with what you're building yeah well when
13:38I think about AI I think a lot of what
13:40it does is help you create more content
13:42and experiences and personalize content
13:45content experiences at scale especially
13:47with games and social media you know for
13:49for moderation there's there's systems
13:50that we have there we have a lot of the
13:52standard things like recommendations
13:54that that we're building um and we also
13:57you know our art team for instance uses
14:00um you know generative AI for concepting
14:02and kind of Designing things before
14:04before they build them so I think right
14:06now at least our team you know for the
14:08past year has been in that phase of
14:11starting to move dis like you know
14:13existing use cases as well as you know
14:15as we're seeing new generative uh tools
14:17to be able to move you know certain
14:19parts of the art exper you know uh
14:21workflow and Engineering workflow to
14:23those tools um VR though is really
14:26really interesting because um one you
14:29know you can imagine being able to
14:30create endless content like if you you
14:32think you know 100 years and this
14:33technology it develops um it really
14:36becomes something of like an experience
14:37machine uh in some ways of you're
14:39hopping on and you're like whatever
14:41experience you want um you'll be able to
14:43have it uh and maybe it's with real
14:46people or maybe it's with you know you
14:48know ml you know agents that are kind of
14:50like Bots that come up to you um all of
14:53those things are ml problems and it's
14:55again very personalized that's what
14:57that's what you often want you want a
14:58bot to to be able to respond to you to
15:00move you know and and kind of respond to
15:02a scenario um to say something that that
15:04makes sense like all of those become
15:06really really interesting uh problems to
15:09solve within a 3D space um expanding
15:12content and things that you can do um
15:14and then when things where things get
15:15really interesting is is really motion
15:18um and that's where we're focused on in
15:19the short term um like the way that you
15:22move um imagine imagine kind of like
15:25your dribble move um or or kind of like
15:29um you know if if you could somehow
15:30capture that and then let you maybe
15:32control that over mobile um and start to
15:35move like you and um and behave like you
15:37like those are things that are really
15:39big opportunities I think in terms of
15:41where VR is going to head um in the
15:43short term I think it's all going to be
15:44about how VR connects to mobile whether
15:47through content or gameplay and and
15:49that's where I think Apple's in a really
15:50great spot um and in the long term I
15:53think you know you you'll imagine
15:54endless um personalized content that you
15:57know you want to figure figure out how
15:58to you know go swimming or go fishing in
16:01in a crazy part of the world now there's
16:02an app for that um and and you could you
16:05know play you could progress you could
16:06get better um you know you could you
16:08could kind of discover incredible things
16:10in those experiences absolutely um even
16:13the note on AI like it seems like right
16:15now you haven't gotten the avatars to
16:18like move like the facial expressions
16:20the the mouth moving I saw this thing on
16:22Twitter recently where you know you
16:24could record a video it would translate
16:27it into another language and then it
16:28would also modify your mouth movements
16:30with AI match the new the new language
16:34so it looked like you were really
16:35speaking French or German and I can
16:37imagine you know that's like an
16:38immediate implementation to your point
16:40of just making everything look more real
16:43to make everything feel more intuitive
16:45like if I do these movements you know
16:48the relationship between like what I'm
16:50doing and what the quest is picking up
16:53it's just more intuitive so I'm really
16:55excited for that Paul this this has been
16:57awesome I think I'm going to have to
16:59go practice by the way and then I'll see
17:00you back on the court let's do it let's
17:06court all right if you made it this far
17:08thank you so much for watching our very
17:10first interview done in virtual reality
17:13this very much was an experiment for us
17:15but if you'd like to see us continue
17:16experimenting let us know in the
17:18comments below also let us know if
17:20you're seeing virtual reality be applied
17:21to other Industries because maybe we'll
17:23cover that too on that note we'll leave
17:25you with a video of how VR is being
17:27applied to education and then of course
17:30we'll close out with the bloopers
17:33finally the Basketball Star I always
17:35be oh hold both of those and then V
17:42ooh ooh oh waa there we go all right
17:47just nope almost all right
17:52oh did I punch any holes in the
