00:00welcome to the a 16z podcast I'm Margot
00:02van Maha's I'm a partner here at the
00:04firm and today we're going to talk about
00:05media I'm joined by three outstanding
00:08professionals Claire Kane Miller with
00:11New York Times which incidentally was
00:13founded in 1851 Alexis Madrigal with the
00:17Atlantic which was founded in 1857
00:19and Connie Guillermo with CNET which was
00:23founded in 1994 which in these days is
00:26almost prehistoric welcome all you're
00:29all part of reinventing long live
00:31publications and media outlets what does
00:34the change mean to each of you Alexis
00:37why don't we start with you well I think
00:39what's been really fun and exciting is
00:42that we are the group of editors who've
00:44had to do something that you know the
00:46previous hundred and 50 years worth of
00:48editors didn't have to do which was
00:49understand the disruption of the
00:52internet and understand the successive
00:55waves of disruption that have come to us
00:57and I think you know in any given six
01:01month period you could say well what
01:02does it mean to you and I would have to
01:03say well it means this Facebook right
01:06now has eaten the Internet
01:07you know I thought it means right now
01:09and so how does the Atlantic play what
01:12is like a the best possible
01:16interpretation of the Atlantic that
01:18works within the constraints of the
01:20current ecosystem and speaking of
01:23ever-changing Connie you just became
01:25editor-in-chief at Sina congratulations
01:27scene it was sort of the first
01:30instantiation of a new media property
01:33and did really well and yet I think you
01:35joined to help reinvent it so what
01:38should we look for at Cena so you're
01:42Sina was one of the first or earliest
01:45online news organizations I was
01:47completely online and it's gone through
01:49a very interesting evolution partly
01:53because of what Alexis said media has
01:55changed so much over the past 25 30
01:58years if you will really since the start
02:01of the PC revolution I think with
02:04desktop publishing changing a lot of
02:07CNET has had to embrace a lot of these
02:10new technologies first and before a lot
02:12of the print publications and so they
02:14have worked to expand their expertise
02:17before there was even expertise
02:20available to find it so moving into
02:22online broadcast quality video before
02:25that now is a staple online but a lot of
02:28people don't remember how early that was
02:31figuring out how to tell stories to an
02:34online audience it's different you don't
02:36have the luxury of someone sitting down
02:38looking at your beautiful pictures
02:39flipping pages popping back and forth
02:41it's it's a different way of talking to
02:44people and so you have to grab them at
02:46the outset you have to give them the
02:48information in digestible bits for the
02:51most part that's not to say there's no
02:54long-form online there absolutely is but
02:56that has been a transition that has been
02:58coming I think in the more recent years
03:00as people have said okay I've gotten the
03:01quick sound bites how do I get a fuller
03:05if print magazines are going away or
03:08shrinking and so my role at scene that
03:11I've been there now just four months or
03:13so is to look at the kind of journalism
03:18that we're doing the way that we're
03:19telling stories we are investing in long
03:22form journalism again which is something
03:23I don't think a lot of people associate
03:25with CNN and so that's an exciting thing
03:28for for people to realize that there is
03:31readership that people want to get all
03:33kinds of information in a variety of
03:35different ways and yes tech can bring
03:37that to you but some of the things they
03:39want or the old things like long-form
03:41piece of night and Claire you know the
03:44New York Times has been around for a
03:45while as I mentioned but then you
03:47launched and helped launch upshot this
03:50year so tell us what upshot is and how
03:52it works in the context of the paper
03:54it's a new section of the times that is
03:58a standalone section online and it runs
04:00throughout the paper in different places
04:03so that's something new before if you
04:05were a business reporter you wrote
04:06business stories that ran in business
04:08day and this is an acknowledgment that a
04:10lot of these stories apply
04:13out the paper but it's mostly online and
04:16it takes a different voice it's more
04:19analytical it's more like the news
04:22columnist it's not the op-ed columnist
04:24who are expressing opinions but the news
04:26columnist who are doing reported pieces
04:29but they actually take a point of view
04:30based on their reporting and their
04:32analysis and it's also a little bit more
04:35into interdisciplinary so I'm still
04:38covering tech like I had been but really
04:40more like the intersection of tech and
04:42economics and the intersection of tech
04:44and work and the way that we live and
04:46work and I think it's an acknowledgment
04:50the upshot is an acknowledgment overall
04:52that people are looking for something
04:55new that a one that page one of the New
04:58York Times served a purpose for a long
04:59time which is this is what happened
05:00today here's what one side thinks here's
05:02what the other side thinks and that's
05:03the news and people aren't looking for
05:05that kind of news anymore that kind of
05:07news is almost a commodity you know
05:09pretty quickly what happened and people
05:12are looking for analysis of that news
05:14and deeper reporting and it doesn't just
05:17mean a quick blog post that someone who
05:22happens to have an opinion shoots off it
05:24still benefits from writers who have
05:26done a ton of reporting and are really
05:28steeped in the subject and know what
05:29they're talking about but I think that
05:30readers want more analytical takes and a
05:36little bit more point of view in the
05:37reporting can I can I just add a tiny
05:39bit to that you know I think one of the
05:41fascinating things is how the
05:42distribution and our knowledge of that
05:45distribution through analytics tools has
05:47driven some of these changes because
05:49what people have realized is that no one
05:52wants to share just like the straight
05:53news thing they want to share that what
05:55used to be called like a second day
05:57story but now it's more like a second
05:58hour story or like a fifth hour story
06:00that's an analysis of that news item
06:02that also speaks to their sort of
06:04identity and what you know we have
06:07looked into within our analytics this
06:11sort of you know what I've called dark
06:13social and which increasingly it's
06:15basically people coming out of mobile
06:17apps largely Facebook and coming to the
06:19Atlantic and we don't know where they're
06:21coming from mm-hmm and so we've been
06:23able to sort of back into
06:24bunch of different types of experiments
06:26and seeing natural experiments that are
06:28running and find that basically Facebook
06:32is sending more traffic to us than the
06:33entire rest of the internet that we can
06:36see combined with all of the blog's all
06:39of the media sites that link to us all
06:40that stuff together and what it means
06:42that more than Twitter oh i'm
06:45and so what that means for us is that
06:50for a story to succeed we need the
06:53people at Facebook to distribute it for
06:55us right we don't have right we don't
06:57unlined we don't have trucks that can
06:58make it can deliver it to people therein
07:01lies the crux right and so that's really
07:03what a lot of what we're talking about
07:04here is like how do you make things
07:06shareable in this way
07:08while still maintaining rigor while
07:09still maintaining journalistic integrity
07:10while still like delivering on the brand
07:14promise of the Atlantic or you know that
07:16times are seen that right there's also a
07:19slew of new outlets to have come online
07:235:38 Fox you know there's all kinds of
07:27property and they sort of seem to take a
07:29stance that it's less about beats it's
07:32more about a method of doing journalism
07:34so do you guys agree and like is the the
07:39beat dead I think the upshot is the
07:42closest competitor to those because as
07:44everyone knows we started it after Nate
07:46Silver left the New York Times writer at
07:485:38 and it was an answer to what nate
07:51silver did at the times but taking it in
07:53a new and different direction as well we
07:55look at it differently though the idea
07:57is that data is a tool and it's a
08:00reporting tool and sometimes it helps a
08:02story and if it doesn't help a story
08:04then we don't include it then that's not
08:06the emphasis and I think 538 would
08:09probably take a different approach to
08:12that really data drives all of their
08:14reporting and I think Vox as these three
08:17these three we're seen as as competitors
08:19and I think that in you know so the
08:21three to six months since they've all
08:22been lives we've seen them take really
08:24different directions mm-hmm I think that
08:27beats are still very important if only
08:29because in order to do the kind of
08:33analysis that we're all talking about
08:34that people value you really need to be
08:37in a topic it's hard to swoop in unless
08:41you have you know unless you write for
08:44The New Yorker and you can scoop in for
08:46two months and that's basically getting
08:48steeped in the topic the same way that a
08:49bee reporter does right and you don't
08:51have sources really if if you're not
08:53covering an industry for an extended
08:56exactly yeah I just want to reinforce
08:58what I said if you're expected to turn
09:01around a story in two hours a story that
09:04in the past the second a story or the
09:06third day story but now people want
09:09if you don't have someone who already
09:11understands the so what yes you can get
09:14the who what where why immediately on
09:16Twitter and 140 characters or less but
09:19to have someone who understands the so
09:20what that has value to me to everyone to
09:24you to your readers and the only way
09:26you're gonna get that so what is to have
09:28someone who actually understands
09:29immediately what the news means not what
09:32it is but what it means and what the
09:34effect is and so there are many
09:37different ways you consent news data is
09:39a great way to do it my background at
09:41Bloomberg was all about finding data
09:42sources to tell news anecdotes and color
09:45or beautiful ways to tell stories
09:47that's my magazines New Yorker thrives
09:49people don't always just want chocolate
09:52sometimes they want vanilla sometimes
09:53they want rocky road and so this idea
09:55that Enterprise for me franchise and so
09:58this idea that journalism or stories
10:01have to be one thing and that's gonna
10:02rule the day it's kind of ridiculous I
10:05wear on a chain all the time this
10:08typewriter key from a 1930s Remington it
10:11reminds me that people used to write
10:14stories on typewriters I mean
10:16Shakespeare wrote them on parchment with
10:18ink technology is a means to an end and
10:21the end for journalists is to tell a
10:22great story to communicate something
10:25that someone didn't know and tell them
10:26in a compelling way where you are
10:28fascinated or you learn something new so
10:30technology is the means it's not the end
10:34it's interesting that you say that
10:35because you know there's this pitch
10:37that's floating around there where you
10:39know like oh it's clear to me that I
10:41need to go there because they have the
10:42tools nobody set that about the printing
10:44process right like that the Washington
10:46Post have the best one so
10:47that's where I'm going to go work but
10:49that said how have the tools changed
10:52like what tool to use now that you'd
10:54love what what is missing that help you
10:57do your job more easy on the back end
11:00that we don't see as consumers the only
11:02other thing I would add about that is
11:03that the typesetters though who worked
11:05at those places we're like quite in some
11:08cases well-known they were like almost
11:09like fighter pilots and there were
11:10that's nice as though typesetting that
11:12must have been an advantage could you
11:13get the paper out faster so maybe that
11:15was boxes chorus but you know they in
11:18eighties Edition I you know toll wise I
11:23think the you know and I feel bad that
11:25I'm talking mostly about distribution
11:27and not really about journalism here but
11:29I think it's look at it interesting I
11:31think just a lot of the things that have
11:33changed or you know the the analytics
11:35and the tools that we use for
11:38distribution whether that's you know I
11:40mean basically is coming down to
11:41Facebook they've been saying but also
11:43Twitter and these other things and
11:45people doing interesting experiments on
11:46Pinterest or whatever it is that they're
11:49that they're trying to do in terms of
11:51the actual tools though I don't think
11:53that much has changed except for the
11:56really easy availability and access and
11:59comfort that lots of people have doing
12:01like light data analysis like you know I
12:04think it would be surprising to people
12:06of the 1970s how many people can just
12:08like pull down a spreadsheet from the
12:11Department of Energy and like make some
12:12stuff out of it and I just know so many
12:16reporters who can just they don't even
12:18think about that as something different
12:19you know they don't think of that or who
12:21can make a video you make a podcast it's
12:23not even they don't think of is I'm a
12:24multimedia journalist they're just like
12:26this is what my job is you know and and
12:29so it's just been naturalized you know
12:30in the course of you know five years or
12:3210 years but the job has expanded pretty
12:35dramatically right like there's a dive
12:37in Twitter footprint and a Facebook
12:39footprint and you have you have to
12:40probably go do some speaking and all of
12:42that and you probably could have gotten
12:44away without doing any of those
12:45activities a couple of decades ago right
12:48yeah I mean I also just think the having
12:51to think at all about distribution is a
12:53new thing turn on and stay you know I
12:56don't even think everybody is
12:58fairly excited about that I mean I find
13:00it personally interesting but I think
13:02that it's either it's a dangerous thing
13:04to bring into contact with journalist of
13:06certain types what I have to say I mean
13:08you can go to a cocktail party and ask
13:09anybody who has any job you know
13:12administrative assistant to a
13:13salesperson to whatever and you can ask
13:15Mike how does a company make money and
13:16somehow you couldn't ask a journalist
13:19like oh yeah how do you guys make money
13:21there was such a sort of disdain and
13:23that's just normal business and I for
13:26one think it's kind of healthy to go
13:27like all right like what stories worked
13:29and how the question is like what are
13:32the traps that are associated with that
13:34yeah even from when I started at the
13:36time clearly there remains very much a
13:39church-state scenario but we're thinking
13:41more about distribution so for a long
13:43time it was we didn't even see what was
13:45most popular there's that little most
13:47emailed list on the side of the times
13:49where you can see the most emailed but
13:50that means that they used that box to
13:52email so it's not actually even that
13:54accurate and other than that we really
13:56didn't see what was most popular what
13:59was most read at all and the idea is
14:01that if a bomb killed six people in
14:06Baghdad and not that many people read
14:07the new story are we not supposed to be
14:10covering that of course not it's still
14:11really important to cover that so we
14:12shouldn't be determining what we cover
14:14based on what people are reading and
14:16while that's still very much true it's
14:19changed in that we're really aware now
14:21right before I left here I got a note
14:23from someone at the Times telling me
14:25that one of my stories was doing
14:26remarkably well on Facebook and had
14:28generated this huge debate on Facebook
14:31way more reader comments than three
14:33times and did I want to go and weigh in
14:35and that's the kind of thing just to be
14:37aware of oh well we touched a nerve in
14:39this audience and that we weren't even
14:41hearing about that stuff a few years ago
14:43the last thing that I'll say about this
14:46it's just that you know it that the
14:48attitude that you what was popular was
14:51sort of like popular because of innate
14:53characteristics of the story
14:54is the thing I think that has really
14:55changed I mean even just in an example
14:59from this past week we had a story about
15:01tattoos and why how tattoos work like
15:05within your body and like a health story
15:07and we sold it once on Facebook I think
15:10on Wednesday and kind of not
15:11happen you know maybe we're talking a
15:13few thousand unique visitors to the site
15:15sold in a different way on Saturday at a
15:18different time maybe it's an algorithmic
15:20thing and end up a million people ended
15:22up reading that story over the next
15:23three days so what you say you sold it a
15:25different way I mean on Facebook there
15:27was a different cell I mean there's a
15:28live the Atlantic's brand page you know
15:31it's hardly but you know you can't
15:32really distill the rule that easily I
15:35think it's an art like everything else
15:36it's a it's a genre of writing that's
15:38very weird and very specific but the
15:41benefits of it to individual stories and
15:44to brand to the whole are really clear
15:46it's called spin we're talking you know
15:54whatever there's a 500x difference and
15:57same story sold it twice and everything
16:00is the same except for like you know 75
16:04words at the top of the thing right even
16:07headlines I think a lot of publications
16:08now have a print headline and a web
16:10headline and the print headline is the
16:12old-school thing where people make fun
16:14of New York Times headlines because it
16:15is a certain style that might not really
16:18tell you exactly what's in the story
16:22Claire makes fun of headline and a web
16:25headline has to be something very
16:26different I think though the point that
16:29you're making Lexus is that because of
16:31Technology and because of all these new
16:33ways of distribution news has to be sold
16:35which in the past it wasn't people had
16:38magazines they had publications readers
16:40cases was who decided what news was and
16:43what you were gonna read and so you
16:44chose to affiliate yourself with a
16:47certain publication because that was who
16:49you were or how you wanted to identify
16:50yourself and with all of the millions of
16:54stories that are generated each week and
16:56I'm sure they're in the millions you
16:59have to rise above the noise and so that
17:01has what's changed I think most
17:02dramatically headline is probably in the
17:05most obvious way to resale or repackage
17:09or promote your story and that's why
17:11people experiment with headlines all the
17:13time so I mean we all know upworthy was
17:1625 different versions of their headlines
17:18until it goes viral or however many it
17:20takes because that is what they are
17:24they're producing news they're not
17:25creating it they're figuring out how to
17:27produce and sell it you're packaging it
17:29essentially right right so how do you
17:31then withstand the pressure they sort of
17:33race to the bottom all right one more
17:35Apple story right because I'm guaranteed
17:37that much traffic and what not to and
17:40you know and still stand for you know a
17:43respected news outlet that gives you the
17:45so what that has a point of view that
17:46can be trusted which is really the way
17:48to rise to the top over the long term
17:51and then also that allows you to attract
17:53the right kinds of advertisers and rates
17:54and all that kind of stuff how do you
17:56think about that yeah I think it's I
17:59mean I've just started this new job and
18:00one of the things that I asked before I
18:03came in is what how do you view the
18:04journalism here what are the metrics for
18:06how you define success you know I worked
18:09at Bloomberg in Forbes pageviews and
18:11reader numbers were a very key metric
18:14but that's not the only metric influence
18:17people talking about it sharing it
18:19causing a company to do something
18:22because of your story these are all ways
18:24that you measure the influence of this
18:26story and so that's very important to me
18:28what I love to have every story read by
18:31a million viewers absolutely I mean who
18:34but I'm also realistic that if a story
18:37is only read by a couple of hundred
18:40people or a thousand people and it
18:42changes something or it's read by the
18:441,000 people that have influence in that
18:47sphere that's important too I don't
18:50think a lot of news organizations though
18:52think about in those ways because
18:53they're dealing with the pressures of
18:55selling advertising and making their
18:57revenue numbers but I hope and I do
18:59think that the out course of some of
19:01these metrics will be that people start
19:03to rethink what are our measurements for
19:06success they do not have to be one note
19:08just like stories don't have to be one
19:10note exactly so it's talked a little bit
19:12about tech you all have covered an hour
19:14covering technology subject for the most
19:16part how is that changed how is the the
19:19it has that you know for each of your
19:22outlets while seeing that being an
19:24exception like has it risen in terms of
19:26like how important it is to the
19:28publication has the audience changed
19:30like what are the changes I think it's
19:35everybody lately there's all these new
19:36publications there's startups that are
19:38tech you know tech journalism startups
19:40that was not happening for a lot of
19:42years it seems to be a huge topic again
19:45I think one of the reasons obviously
19:47it's because the tech industry is doing
19:51very well and when it doesn't do well
19:53it's less important but I think this
19:55time is a little bit different I think
19:56that technology is has so permeated all
19:59of our lives now that even if you know
20:02the in the tech industry starts to not
20:05do so well or VC funding goes down we're
20:07all still going to have this iPhone in
20:09our pocket all the time and it's really
20:10permeated our lives so people have an
20:12interest in it that extends far beyond
20:14business coverage or really geeky
20:17coverage to more sociological and
20:20cultural coverage so I think that's a
20:23big thing I also think these companies
20:25that for a while where these little
20:27startups that you know were funny doing
20:29funny things out here and you could
20:31bring your dogs to work are now these
20:33huge monopolies in many cases with a ton
20:36of power they all have these huge
20:38lobbying arms in Washington and they
20:40have they really control a lot of our
20:42lives and or have influence I should say
20:44over big parts of our lives and over the
20:47economy and so it has become a much
20:49bigger business story as well as a
20:51political one okay I just think the mood
20:53is so much darker than it was five years
20:56ago around technology I mean you know if
20:58you look at the rise of a place like
20:59Mashable it's basically all around like
21:02every single time there's a new tweet
21:04record there's a record number of
21:05Twitter users there's a record number of
21:07Facebook users the entire story of
21:10Mashable's rise was just these kind of
21:12like celebrations of the of the rise of
21:15social media and then it got here and
21:17everyone's like this sucks like
21:18this isn't what I meant for you know and
21:20I think that has been like generally
21:23speaking the the mood out there you
21:27can't just write a celebratory story
21:29like that and have anyone want to read
21:30it like no one wants to hear that and so
21:32I think you know certainly the Snowden
21:35stuff certainly like yeah I mean just
21:38Facebook and Google essentially having
21:41hegemonic control of our mobile
21:42advertising which is what everyone sees
21:44things going there are just a number of
21:48we're like both media companies and I
21:50think readers at large feel like have
21:53darker moods on the other hand I think
21:55that there's a new kind of story that
21:58we've been doing a lot of economy's kind
21:59of under the rubric of kind of
22:01adventures with technology that are that
22:03are basically just like technology
22:06integrated in people's lives and they
22:08tell like a story in which the
22:09technology plays a role and that kind of
22:12story would have been like totally weird
22:13to have you know whatever kind of pure
22:18play human interest stories that revolve
22:19around a piece of technology used to be
22:21a sector that was its own Island and now
22:24it's sort of everywhere and pervasive
22:26and I think that's changing now let me
22:28ask a question about the companies the
22:29tech companies themselves do you think
22:32they're doing a good job keeping up with
22:34the changes in terms of like how to how
22:37to tell their stories to a broader
22:38audience because they're they're not
22:40necessarily talking to other geeks but
22:42they're talking to the world at large
22:44and you know talking to Cena may not be
22:46good enough to explain yourself I you
22:49know 3 to be specific yeah that's that's
22:51a complicated question actually I mean
22:53companies do have various ways of
22:57telling their stories and you know I
22:59started writing about tech you know a
23:03more than 20 years ago which dates me
23:05and I wrote for the first issue of Wired
23:07and people were talking about how tech
23:09was changing things right changing
23:12industries and you could really see it
23:13instead of taking a box of equipment you
23:15could take a camera to cover the war in
23:17Iraq and so there was a lot of
23:21excitement and a lot of buzz about how
23:23things were changing and I and I think
23:24people were able to tell a story then
23:26that was easier for people to understand
23:28because technology had played a
23:30predictable role in making something
23:32easier more efficient less expensive
23:34with the technologies that we have now
23:36they're solving all kinds of problems
23:39and some of them are problems that we
23:40don't even know that we need to solve
23:42but the technology enables it for you to
23:45do it and then you can get a startup
23:46going and some VC will back it and I've
23:49got a million Twitter followers now so I
23:52think that you know just to play off
23:55that dark mood in Silicon Valley a
23:56little bit just because you can do
23:59something with technology doesn't mean
24:00that you have a business
24:01or that people want to buy it and so
24:03there is a lot of excitement around the
24:06tech and look at what I can do and how
24:07each of these pieces together right and
24:09I've got an app but I don't know that
24:13companies that every company has
24:15assessed whether that app is worthwhile
24:17what what kind of a problem are we
24:19solving I mean I make this joke that
24:22Facebook has some of the smartest people
24:24on the planet working day and night to
24:26figure out how to serve me a better ad
24:28that I don't want so that's a lot of
24:32brainpower working on a problem that I
24:35don't necessarily see how's an end game
24:37that's not to say Facebook doesn't have
24:38utilitarian use and that people don't
24:40love it and you're done things but
24:43that's a lot of smart people working on
24:45how to serve you a better ad it's not
24:47really what you want all those smart
24:48people working on got it got it
24:51I think the companies for the reasons I
24:54was saying before that they are have
24:55become such bigger players in our lives
24:58and in you know business and and
25:01regulation and all of that I think that
25:04they I'm talking about the big companies
25:06here like the googles and Apple's and
25:07Facebook's I think they've gotten a
25:09little bit scared and have really sort
25:13of hunkered down I feel like they've
25:14become extremely controlling just in the
25:17past a change even in the past five
25:19years about what story they tell and
25:21what message they're getting out and
25:22you're the professional in this market
25:24so you probably know if that's a good
25:25thing but I ask the questions for us it
25:30is a very challenging thing because
25:32they've become a lot more controlling
25:34and on the one hand I see that if you
25:35are a big company like Johnson & Johnson
25:38there are not that many stories written
25:40about you every year if you're a big
25:42company like Google I was on the Google
25:43beat for the past five years there could
25:45be four news stories a week every little
25:47thing that they did every little thing
25:49that happened to them from a regulator
25:50from a privacy advocate whoever it is
25:52that's a news story now and they're
25:54really under the microscope so I see why
25:57they have taken this controlling stance
25:59but it can be frustrating for reporters
26:03yeah the most interesting change seems
26:06to be a lot of them just like do things
26:07on their own blogs and their own media
26:09sphere I was waiting for that answer yet
26:14I'm I mean I'm interested I mean I wish
26:16I could get a better access to lots of
26:18them but on the other hand like I'm not
26:20gonna cover that many things you know
26:21and I and I feel if I put myself in the
26:24shoes of any company I mean we're doing
26:26a podcast here we are venture capital
26:28firm you know write this it makes a lot
26:32of sense and I think a lot of these
26:35companies can actually have a better
26:37sense of who they're trying to reach and
26:40so they don't have to let go they don't
26:41have to lend through a reporter who's
26:43gonna try and mass-market it right
26:45instead they're just gonna go alright
26:46there's basically 250 people who need to
26:48know about this I'm gonna put it on my
26:49blog I'm gonna tweet it and those 250
26:51people are gonna find out about it and I
26:53actually you know if you just if you
26:54step back from being a journalist or a
26:56media person you think about an
26:58information ecosystem like that's
27:00actually okay you know let those people
27:01connect on the periphery and then we can
27:03focus on you know these are the types of
27:05stories yeah I know I agree I mean I'm
27:07usually in favor of I think a company or
27:10firm or whoever is always better off
27:12explaining themselves but then not
27:13everything that you actually need to
27:15explain to your users might meet the bar
27:18for someone to write about so I think
27:20both both channels are important and I
27:22think companies and consumers and media
27:25should use all of those channels very
27:27effectively and I think actually that is
27:29something that is working so companies
27:31as much as they may want to exert
27:32control there are lots of people on
27:35Twitter on Facebook and you know
27:37everywhere who can make their voices
27:39heard and I actually think that's a
27:40great you know it's a great dose of
27:42sunshine that that works well so on the
27:45kind of how to part a little bit I do
27:48want you all to talk a bit about what
27:50how do you think about a story you know
27:53if someone's listening saying like wow
27:55I'd love to tell the Atlantic about my
27:57startup you know you're probably not
27:59gonna write down like oh here's what the
28:00startup does and you're the seven
28:02features but how do you think about what
28:05makes a great story we're just like when
28:07there's sort of an idea inside of it you
28:10know like there was a there's a tiny
28:12little thing that Google did recently
28:14that I that I found kind of interesting
28:16you know they started sending people
28:17instead of just they started sending
28:19people little stories that they had
28:21auto-generated out of the photos that
28:23they backed up on Google+
28:25and and it's a little thing and like not
28:27that many people want to write about it
28:28but I kind of found it fascinating
28:29because it gets to this idea of like how
28:32do you train Google to understand the
28:34human world in ways that make it more
28:36helpful and you know there's Google now
28:39which many many people have written
28:40about but this is actually almost like
28:42more interesting to me at some level
28:44it's sort of like the long-form Google
28:46you know Auto story like how do you
28:48actually get to that and so I think a
28:53lot of what I want to hear from startups
28:55and the way that I end up working is
28:57just going like is you know like Connie
28:59was saying earlier this so what the idea
29:00that's embedded inside of these startups
29:03it's usually more interesting than
29:04whatever thing their actual app is doing
29:08that and I also I'm a huge fan of
29:11although if they're difficult to get
29:13like real processors where we can
29:15actually get at what it's like to build
29:17something because these systems are
29:19incredibly complicated and they look
29:21really simple and smooth in in your
29:23phone and no one actually wants to talk
29:26about those kinds of real stories like
29:27the difficulties and I'm just like dying
29:29to just talk to people who are like
29:31here's what's actually hard about
29:33building an app now right you did write
29:34up someone to talk about that people go
29:36like I don't have an app as if it's sort
29:37of a small thing all right well mental
29:40you're like these guys must be sitting
29:42at their keyboards for like you know 400
29:44hours in a row doing something right and
29:45I'm part of it is that it's difficult
29:48that Red Bull household 20 years right
29:50yeah but that's like one of the things
29:52that we've always wanted to do that we
29:54actually find most difficult to do is
29:56explain what it is to to code and
29:59explain what it is to solve problems in
30:01code because that kind of gets at the
30:03motivations of lots of these people like
30:06a deep level they like solving problems
30:07in code and and yet they never want to
30:09talk to us about it so what makes a
30:11great scene at long-form story that that
30:14you say that you want to do I think it
30:17goes back to what alexis was saying the
30:19idea this so what you you want to start
30:23with something that is real that is not
30:25a fabricated idea of oh look we're we're
30:29gonna do something that will make it
30:31easier for you to do your laundry or you
30:32know that's been done
30:34I think legitimately sometimes companies
30:37struggle with this because we look at I
30:40don't know it take air B&B and rent out
30:42a couch IIIi don't know about the three
30:45of you but like a lot of people's are
30:47like that is like it just seems silly
30:49and it's a monstrous company and you
30:52know it has it's a cultural phenomenon
30:55and whatnot so how does one get past the
30:58like okay up these seven features and
30:59she's a bigger thing so you I had a
31:01short stint in PR as you know Marv you
31:05remember that yes and as a journalist
31:09going in I would tell our executives who
31:13wanted to do a press release because
31:14everyone wants to do a press release and
31:15put out a story and I would say give it
31:18to me in a sentence what is the story in
31:20a sentence give me the headline on the
31:21story from my Bloomberg day 63
31:24characters tell me your story and you
31:26can be like Tom's the executive vice
31:28president would be very trite a new and
31:36revolutionary breakthrough blah blah
31:39software and their software that allows
31:41you to string those sentences together
31:43so I would say that that that is what a
31:47good journalist can do is they can go
31:49through and do hours of interviews and
31:52research an investigation to get to that
31:5463 word headline at 63 character a
31:57headline but they don't have the luxury
31:59of doing that anymore all right you have
32:01to like look at something and assess it
32:03so now the onus is on the company to
32:05already figure out for me what that 63
32:08character headline is when they pitch
32:10their story because it's not about a
32:12pitch it's about that they've figured
32:14out and distilled it down to that point
32:17one thing I will say is that's not an
32:19easy thing to do I'm not saying that you
32:21can just you know this is why you have
32:22professionals however a lot of a lot of
32:25folks say no I could never do that I
32:27could never figure out what my business
32:28model is in that few words and then I
32:32would say well what who's the number one
32:34give me their business model in a
32:35sentence and they can always do it oh
32:37that's a good friend so if you if you
32:39can do it about your competitor
32:41damn straight they can do it about you
32:43it's really just you know thinking you
32:46know everyone's special yeah but getting
32:49to what really makes you special that's
32:51work it's easy to write a thousand word
32:53story it's hard to write a 200 word
32:55story yeah because you have to edit and
32:58you have to think and you have to
32:59rethink what it is that you're trying to
33:01say but that's where the work is that
33:02should happen before you go out as a
33:05company because that's the story that
33:06you're gonna tell ultimately so anyone
33:08who wants to get to you Claire and be in
33:11the news section well what's their best
33:14approach when I started at the times I
33:17was covering startups and venture
33:18capital and I got so burnt out on doing
33:21the quick the here's a new startup story
33:23because it sort of felt like you're
33:24writing rewriting a press release here's
33:26there's not a whole lot more to say
33:28about it so I agree with what what both
33:31Alexis and Connie said which is that you
33:33guys are great way to me you have to
33:34have an idea and especially now for the
33:37upshot we're much more about ideas than
33:40about you know just the fact that this
33:43is new and it exists I think the times
33:46had because it has a general readership
33:49we all sort of have this person in mind
33:51this this anonymous reader is
33:53non-anonymous reader it's everyone has
33:55one for me it's my grandma in Iowa and
33:57it's like how do I make this story
33:59interesting to my grandma in Iowa and
34:00that is not against grandmothers or the
34:02Midwesterners it just means someone who
34:04does at your only demographic because
34:06why deny America not in Silicon Valley
34:12or in New York City and someone who you
34:15know might not have used Airbnb before
34:18what's like the bigger idea and and then
34:21the other thing that I really like to be
34:22able to do is to tell narratives and
34:24that's similar to what alexis was saying
34:26also it's like if you really I remember
34:28in in 2008 and 2009 when all the venture
34:33capitalists were saying you know we have
34:35to freeze everything and you really need
34:38to focus on profit that's the most
34:39important or less famous lytics that
34:42and actually Sequoia did that slide deck
34:44and I did a story with one of the
34:46Sequoia CEOs where I actually said you
34:48know what was it like that day what did
34:49you do not just like we cut costs but
34:51like what did you do what was your
34:53actual RIA motional reaction what were
34:55the conversations you had and I think
34:57those narratives are a lot better and
35:00I've done a lot on women and tech
35:01recently where where it's been reporting
35:04for months and months to tell a story
35:06and to me that tells a little bit about
35:09what it's like to be in this place and
35:10to live and work in Silicon Valley is a
35:13much more interesting story to me to me
35:14that I mean I get to live in this
35:16industry but I will say like the best
35:18the stories I most enjoy give me the
35:21feeling if someone's taken me inside
35:23whether it's a warzone or a different
35:25industry or you know different
35:27demographic and I sort of feel like I be
35:29I can actually be a fly on the wall so I
35:31would love for you guys to all keep
35:34doing those so that thanks a lot guys
35:37you're welcome please
