00:00for this I'm excited to talk about some
00:04really important issues in augmented
00:06reality and we I didn't realize it was
00:09miked up to speakers this is awesome I
00:11thought I was gonna have to like scream
00:12so thank you but yeah so we had an
00:16amazing campout and we talked about a
00:18lot of issues at this camp outs many
00:19people in this room were there and some
00:21were not and some of the things we
00:23talked about we thought we should open
00:24up to a broader audience so this is
00:26going to be recorded and then when we're
00:28done we're going to put it online on
00:30Twitter and we will edit it obviously so
00:33if there's anything anyone says that
00:34they don't want out there just let us
00:36know and we will take it out no pressure
00:39should be worried about him me worry
00:43about Phil here so yeah I want to start
00:46with introducing John Hanke and Phillip
00:50Phil or Phillip Phil Phil Phil Caslon
00:53John is the CEO of Niantic and Phil is
00:56the CTO and they are the creators of
00:58Pokemon Go which I'm sure a lot of
01:01people here are aware of congratulations
01:04on your round of funding and thank you
01:06Sian and harrypotter super excited about
01:11Harry Potter I'm sure you can't talk
01:13tonight no but you're a pioneer in the
01:16space and that comes with certain policy
01:19changes particularly as it pertains to
01:21the First Amendment and when I went
01:23online to try to figure out like what
01:25sort of discussions were taking place on
01:27this topic and there's actually very few
01:28there's a few blog posts but I think
01:31it's actually such a huge issue and that
01:33we're not thinking about it as much as
01:35we should because we're going to come
01:36head to head with it pretty soon so what
01:39happens when we protect you know we have
01:41what sort of protections do we have when
01:42we argument public spaces you know how
01:46do we approach this world that employs
01:48two-dimensional laws in an increasingly
01:49three-dimensional world so why don't we
01:53start by talking about a recent case
01:54John basically the Milwaukee County
01:57versus candy lab is anyone here familiar
02:00with that case at all okay great awesome
02:04so not a lot of background contacts
02:08do you want me to explain the case yeah
02:10in the case and kind of what happened
02:12and we'll start there
02:14okay sure so this was the Milwaukee
02:18County Park Commission basically passed
02:22a regulation that said that any
02:24augmented reality game would have to
02:26apply in advance for a permit before it
02:29could be allowed to exist and they sent
02:31us the form and the permit form was the
02:33same form that you would fill out if you
02:34were having a 4th of July picnic or
02:36something so you would you know specify
02:38how many people were coming and all of
02:41that and pay a fee per person as well
02:45I'm not kidding I mean yeah that wasn't
02:48the thing that was troubling it was just
02:50that you know that act of sort of
02:52pre-registration with you know a local
02:55authority obviously would be a huge
02:57inhibitor if he wanted to have a
02:58nationwide or global experience it would
03:01be pretty much impossible if that were
03:02in fact the rule everywhere so it was
03:03one of those situations that really
03:05opened our eyes it was you know the
03:09facts of the case were that obviously
03:11you know pokemons go had been very
03:13popular in that area it continues to be
03:16very popular but there were certain
03:17parks there were large numbers of people
03:19had gathered there were issues with
03:20trash and there were neighbors that
03:22weren't happy that all of these people
03:23had come to their quiet neighborhood
03:25there was a particular Park in a an
03:27effluent part of town that had attracted
03:30people to the park and numbers that had
03:32not been seen before and so that from
03:35what we heard that group of local
03:37citizens had then complained to the City
03:39Council which had that leaned on the
03:41park authority to sort of do something
03:42about it and they passed that kind of
03:46while we were negotiating with them
03:48talking with them trying to talk them
03:50off the cliff of actually going forward
03:51with the regulation another company
03:54candy lab is the name of the company
03:56what do they do they make an like a our
04:00mercenaire but anybody here with candy
04:12Victor not but you're not okay nobody's
04:16asked you before II despaired so I've
04:18never met just kidding see the camera
04:22guy this is not actually they step
04:25aboard there was there is I guess an
04:29industry a nascent industry trade
04:31association and they'd together work
04:33together to file this brief was actually
04:35a great brief and it was about
04:37protecting free speech essentially candy
04:41labs save the day yeah we actually went
04:43to yeah they asked what an injunction
04:44against this and that ultimately was
04:46granted and the judge kind of cast
04:48aspersion on the regulation there was no
04:51like final ruling about it it was a
04:55preliminary ruling bit was enough that
04:57the city backed off and they've decided
04:59not to enforce and actually today or
05:01yesterday they announced that they're
05:02reimbursing candy lab for the legal fees
05:04it's awesome the fees scrape so then do
05:06you kind of back off from that but it's
05:09kind of a close call but it's probably a
05:11sign of many more discussions like that
05:13to calm I think yeah I guess sick ways
05:16well into my next question is what sort
05:18of impacts do you believe that that
05:19ruling is gonna have on our future of
05:21location-based a are gaming the impact
05:25of that ruling well I mean I hope it's I
05:28mean it definitely went the right
05:31in terms of the free speech arguments
05:33got made and there was this ruling that
05:35suggested that hey before you jump in
05:37and start regulating things like this
05:39you need to pay attention to what the
05:42impact is on speech so that's a good
05:45thing but there are a lot of
05:47jurisdictions in the world and you know
05:50the thing with the with a are is that
05:52you know it sort of weirdly bleeds the
05:54digital and sort of local property and
05:57kind of local physical access laws and
06:00regulations which you know tend to be
06:02made and adjudicated at the local
06:04government level so there's certainly
06:06room for lots of different
06:07interpretations about how that should
06:09work to happen in cities around the
06:12world so you know that's that's that's
06:16the thing that we're all facing you know
06:18and I think it's probably something that
06:20if we if you all are involved in you
06:22know AR and related kind of technologies
06:25there's probably something that frankly
06:26is going to be an ongoing discussion
06:29debate policy tug-of-war for the next
06:33many years I think they think key phrase
06:35Annette though is world right I think
06:38this was adjudicated in in a county in
06:40Wisconsin doesn't really talk about what
06:44happens everywhere else right right
06:46other cities can do strange things and
06:48there's a ski in France that's that
06:50banned Pokemon go completely and so it's
06:52illegal to play pokemon go in that
06:53country and that city rather so do you
06:56do you feel do you feel that in America
07:00there are more challenges than say in
07:02the rest of the world like or how like
07:05that is a good point that you brought up
07:07about the world is a question of scale
07:10right I mean where's the game played the
07:12most that has tends to amplify the
07:14effects well there are I mean there are
07:16legal protections for free speech here
07:18in the United States yeah that don't
07:20exist in most places in the world so
07:23we're probably in much better position
07:25to defend it from a free speech point of
07:27view here then in other countries and in
07:32addition to the sort of authoritarian
07:33types of governments where you really
07:35just don't respect free speech at all
07:38you know Europe's an interesting
07:39situation because you have a very
07:40aggressive kind of privacy policy there
07:44and there's a new version of that as I'm
07:45sure many of you are aware coming down
07:47the pike so you know that's gonna create
07:50I think a pretty challenging environment
07:52as well that would be my guess just
07:56basically past experience so things like
07:57Google Streetview and Europe and kind of
08:00policy perspective on that the EPA is in
08:04each country and well the beauty of a
08:07are and someone would say the bane of
08:09its existence is that there's going to
08:10be multiple layers of a our experiences
08:13so they'll be the Niantic layer maybe
08:14the Facebook layer and the snap layer
08:16the etcetera etc etc all based on the
08:18same exact location so what are the
08:21solutions to sort of address some of
08:23these concerns about you know people
08:27coming to a place and mass coming to
08:29something that technically is just you
08:31know sort of a row in a database
08:34so like private property owners of
08:36physical property like making rules of
08:38conduct or have you seen anything that
08:40you've worked with that you've worked
08:41with like local governments or private
08:43property owners so try to figure out how
08:45to address these these situations
08:46because eventually it's going to be you
08:49know looking at two three years from now
08:50there's going to be multiple companies
08:52potentially at the scale you're at today
08:55yeah I mean we've there's sort of the
08:58what can you or what should you be able
09:01to do at the far extreme as a reach as a
09:04as a matter of free speech we have tried
09:07to be accommodating of the realities of
09:10what it really means for people to be
09:12using an experience like this in the
09:15real world and to you know just be
09:20reasonable about it so for example if
09:23private business owners say hey we don't
09:25really want people coming to our private
09:27business we'd rather not be in your game
09:30then we will remove them if a park says
09:34to us hey you know our we closed the
09:37park at 10:00 p.m. we really don't
09:38people we don't want people trying to
09:39come into the city park after hours
09:41we're gonna scale the fence after we
09:43lock the gates to the local Zoo or
09:45whatever I mean that's that's reasonable
09:47to us and so you know we have hours of
09:49operation there are things that we've
09:50added since we launched the game to try
09:52to accommodate so there might be cases
09:55where you would have really the right to
09:57do something in an extreme case but I
10:00think it's probably better if we save
10:04those for the you know the places where
10:06you really want to you know get strong
10:08political be about something you want to
10:10express and in other cases try to be
10:12reasonable and and work with local
10:14communities and to try to avoid
10:17practical problems like too many people
10:18showing up or people showing up in
10:20places where where they're not wanted
10:23you know at the same time you know there
10:27are situations like public parks where
10:29you want to give the local community and
10:32local citizens an opportunity to express
10:34some express themselves like what do
10:35they want to do like there are cases
10:37where you have a local park and they
10:40reserved part of the park for weddings
10:43and they have certain sections they
10:44really don't want people to use but
10:47times a day or four certainly maybe they
10:48think it's okay for people to play
10:50soccer get there but they don't want
10:51people to play pokemon there's some
10:53other AR experience just kind of weird
10:54interpretations and so you know rather
10:57than just accepting what some individual
11:00local official says without any kind of
11:02public hearing or giving the public a
11:04chance to sort of weigh in and express
11:05what they want you know that makes me a
11:07little uncomfortable so you know we've
11:10adopted this policy of tombstoning a
11:12location so if we you know take it down
11:13in some sort of public area we say this
11:15was removed at the request of the
11:16such-and-such organization so at least
11:18if people disagree with that decision do
11:20something they can have a local
11:21discussion about that and you know there
11:23may be people on both sides of the issue
11:25locally and it should be kind of worked
11:27out in like a town hall discussion of a
11:30Tombstone pokey stop many yeah I mean in
11:33fact in the Milwaukee case they had
11:35public hearings and go players and
11:38ingress players showed up in masse to
11:39defend the right to play the games in
11:41these public parks and that's awesome so
11:44yeah so my Scott came up with this
11:48really awesome analogy basically and it
11:52you know it kind of threw me for a bit
11:54but I it's totally similar but how
11:56similar is augmented reality to it and
11:58Yelp review yeah it's interesting when
12:02you really kind of break down what what
12:05you're saying there because there is
12:07this sort of kind of semantic confusion
12:10about AR in terms of you think about
12:14placing an object in a place and it's
12:16very easy to talk about it and think
12:18about it in terms of like atoms and
12:20physical space because you're trying to
12:23simulate that in a sense and you know
12:25with digital things so it does start to
12:27feel at a gut level to people and people
12:29start using the language about oh you
12:31put something on my property as if you
12:34really you know place some atoms there
12:36in a piece of property that they owned
12:38rather than having a row in a database
12:41that has latitude and longitude as you
12:43know one of the attributes and some
12:44descriptors of some you know
12:45visualization that somebody can you know
12:48perceive through a digital device when
12:50they're there in the same way that they
12:51might be able to read a yelp review or
12:53read an unfavorable commentary about how
12:56the you know City Council is run if they
12:58you know went to City Hall so I think it
13:02is really dangerous to start trying to
13:04regulate this and it's dangerous when
13:07people start talking about it using
13:09these physical analogies because if it's
13:12that's not correct I think and would
13:14would lead to a very restrictive way of
13:18thinking about you know this whole thing
13:19thing that scares me is there are a lot
13:22of conversations around that which is
13:23you know trying to think of it as a
13:25physical thing versus you know just a
13:27row and it kind of we're guilt I mean we
13:29kind of want to suggest to the user that
13:31is real you know in the context of the
13:32game you wanna see the spiritual
13:34character it's really there and you want
13:35to make it as realistic as possible and
13:37you're gonna be able to walk around it
13:38and have the right lighting and have it
13:39Custis a dough and you like we are
13:40trying to make it feel as if it's there
13:42but in reality it's not and it's only
13:46there if a person wants to use the right
13:47software to perceive it and people with
13:49different software can see different
13:51things and I kind of think it should be
13:53up to an individual to decide what sort
13:56of filter they want to put over their
13:57perception of the world you know not for
14:00the world to decide what kind of filter
14:01that you can have when you perceive it
14:03so yeah what is the short term ideal
14:06solution there's a lot of people in the
14:08audience and the people who are gonna
14:09watch this or entrepreneurs who are
14:11thinking about these issues as they
14:13design their products you know what what
14:16do you think are some of the solutions
14:17that you would advise them to implement
14:20in their design or how they think about
14:22what they're doing that could help them
14:24when it comes to these free speech
14:26issues well I mean I'm going back to the
14:29thing that I said earlier I think when
14:31you are designing an experience to be
14:35respectful of what kind of an impact you
14:36think that is likely to have and just
14:40try to you know be reasonable about you
14:45know accommodating the interests of all
14:48the parties that might be affected by it
14:50if it if it exists and not be too brash
14:54or clueless about that I mean I think
14:55Silicon Valley kind of gets a bad rap
14:57and certainly in Washington it has an
14:59increasingly negative connotation of
15:02just people being insensitive and being
15:04very rigorous in their interpretation of
15:07things but not being practical about how
15:09it actually affects people are really
15:13there are legitimate issues to be
15:14discussed so I think you know we don't
15:17want to be perceived that way I think
15:19it's important that you know whatever
15:22you think of you know whoever represents
15:23you in Congress but it's it's important
15:26for them to see us as people that are
15:28aware and savvy and sensitive to what
15:30are what impact our products are
15:32actually happening in the real world to
15:35listen when there are issues and try to
15:37just be reasonable and be engaged you
15:38know don't be an ivory tower don't be
15:40silent don't just like you know trash
15:42those emails I think we actually have to
15:44engage with policymakers local
15:46government citizens that may not
15:50understand what we're doing it's it's
15:53important because I do think there's a
15:55sort of anti big tech backlash which may
15:58extend to an anti little tech backlash
16:01too if it sort of keeps rolling and that
16:03that would be bad for innovation in the
16:05space and is there anything Niantic
16:07specifically is working on or is it just
16:10sort of a constant thing that you're
16:11working on with this around this issue
16:13you'd like to have an initiative or like
16:14how does it work internally I mean our
16:18big initiatives are one to gauge with
16:21policy makers so we started as a very
16:24lean startup we just had you know
16:26engineers product people and it's little
16:27overhead as we could possibly have and
16:29the last thing I ever wanted was you
16:31know a policy team we had to add one
16:34after the launch of our product and some
16:36of these issues sort of started to arise
16:38but I'd have come to appreciate the fact
16:40that we can't ignore people in
16:42Washington even if they're saying
16:43something you think is ridiculous or
16:44clueless it's kind of your obligation to
16:46go there and talk and explain and only
16:49by doing that are we gonna educate
16:50people and have them make informed good
16:52public policy so you guys are smart
16:55people and very communicators so the
16:59more of us that do that and help explain
17:01and help people understand I think the
17:02better policy is going to get made the
17:05other thing that we are putting a lot of
17:07energy into is just building tools to
17:09allow us to interface with you know
17:12legitimate local communities and groups
17:14to allow them to give us feedback about
17:17kind of how they want the product to
17:19work in their area and if they do want
17:22sort of hours of operations or certain
17:24places they want you know more stuff
17:27there it's again you know we're trying
17:31to find the public voice and not allow
17:34some local power broker to speak for the
17:37people and it's a difficult thing to do
17:40to know how to to engage with and who to
17:42trust and kind of how to navigate those
17:43waters it's actually quite tricky but I
17:45don't but you can ignore it so we're
17:47we're trying to figure that out and
17:48build the right tools to allow that sort
17:51of communication and feedback to happen
17:52you think there's room for like an air
17:54traffic control sort of GPS type service
17:57that everybody sort of subscribes to
17:59that helps like if I want to geofence
18:01this place and I'm like I don't want
18:03Banksy art here you know because
18:05everybody is knocking on my door because
18:07they want to see the Banksy I have
18:08inside do you think that that is useful
18:11or well should it be a unified thing or
18:15should should you know each sort of
18:18company or product offering a services
18:20come up with its own self police
18:23regulation about what do you do about a
18:25private space you know how do you how
18:26does something get put in a private
18:28space and how does that get publicized
18:29to people who may not have access to
18:31that private space those are certainly
18:33issues that we confront and I think many
18:36of you might confront if you're doing
18:37work in this area I don't know it might
18:40make sense for there to be some sort of
18:41unified thing I think different kinds of
18:44products are going to have different use
18:45cases and different audiences and
18:47different kind of access models built
18:49into them so I don't know if there's a
18:51one-size-fits-all kind of answer to that
18:53well thank you we're going to move to
18:57the next panel and then afterwards we're
18:58going to have about twenty to
19:00twenty-five minutes of people asking
19:01questions directly to the panelists or I
19:03find that sometimes talking obviously up
19:06here is fun but I think hearing from the
19:08audience is even more fun so we'll bring
19:10you guys back up after you meet the next
19:13three panelists thank you
19:22so I get to make this joke because I'm
19:26sure you never gets old
19:27yeah this is Diana Ross well Diana Ross
19:34the other way is a free muffin say Anna
19:40and Ross they're from Esther reality
19:44which is a wonderful company and they're
19:48basically experts computer vision and
19:49machine learning expert experts from MIT
19:51and Carnegie Mellon and they work on
19:55back in cross platform for mobile AR
19:57which we will explain in a little bit
19:59for anybody who doesn't know why that's
20:01important why it's important and then
20:03Paul was from torch 3d previously a
20:06magic leap in many other places is
20:08working on what I like to call but maybe
20:10you can explain it a little bit more
20:11which is envision for 3d so if you can
20:14imagine fast prototyping for 3d and why
20:17that might be important which we'll get
20:19into so yeah so I'm I'm going to go
20:23through some of these it was interesting
20:25because I've been talking to some people
20:26some people in the audience are very
20:27well-versed on these subjects so like
20:29maybe it won't surprise any of you but
20:31but keep in mind some people here might
20:33not actually know but Ross and Diana
20:37we've seen a lot of false starts an AR
20:39and B are a lot of people just say oh
20:41this now's the time for VR now's the
20:43time you know now's the time for AR but
20:46then like something happens and you're
20:47like okay you know kind of like with AR
20:49kit you know there was a lot of hype
20:51leading up to a or kit even Tim Cook got
20:53up there and said it was the future I
20:55said it was the future I still believe
20:57it's the future so I think we're on the
21:00cusp of what will be a massive shift in
21:02computing behavior do you agree
21:05well betting my career on it okay so if
21:09you think about it like how for me
21:12personally on like computing there's
21:14like different phases that you've gone
21:16through there was like the PC desktop
21:17phase there's kind of the mobile phase
21:19now we're starting to get into this kind
21:20of wearable computing phase in terms of
21:23headsets but what's interesting about it
21:24is like and I think this gets to the
21:26reason why there are a whole bunch of
21:28false starts is a lot of these like for
21:30tops for mobile it's getting humans to
21:32adapt to computers so if you think about
21:34like we learned how to type we learn how
21:36to use Mouse we learn how to swipe so
21:38but if you think about like with AR and
21:40even VR to a certain degree
21:41it's getting computers to adapt to the
21:43world no the thing is it's everyone kind
21:47of expects this like huge immediate ramp
21:49up where everything's gonna rush in like
21:51with a our kid or if you're going oh
21:53it's gonna take a little bit of time
21:54that's for two reasons one dealing with
21:56things that interact with the real world
21:58like the world is literally the biggest
21:59variable so being able to handle that
22:01amount and understanding of kind of all
22:05the different data that you have to deal
22:06with like that's a really really hard
22:08problem so it's also getting people to
22:10adapt to that line of thinking of how do
22:12you incorporate the real world into this
22:14level of computation so and then the
22:16second part is it's just completely
22:18different mechanics on how you deal with
22:19things like the time that it took cell
22:21phones to or like touch touch screens to
22:24kind of grow I mean while it was again
22:26getting humans to adapt to it it's still
22:29like a different medium so like what is
22:31a UI interface for like augmented
22:35reality how do you begin to interact
22:36with the real world so if you think
22:38about it like a are kind of introduces
22:41like the real world becomes content that
22:43you can interact with so like that is a
22:46new way of thinking about things there's
22:47content that content developers create
22:49and then there's the content that the
22:51algorithms create that it makes the real
22:53world so then like thinking about how
22:55you approach that is a new way of
22:58thinking about it so what is this kind
23:01of a false start in a sense no I think
23:04it's a SETI step up that may not be this
23:07like immediate like in three years quick
23:10exponential but it's just there are a
23:12whole bunch of new problems that people
23:13have never dealt before but like okay if
23:16Apple puts their foot down like okay hey
23:18our kid or like what two three months
23:21into it like think about Oh was the App
23:23Store dead because it the weekend he had
23:25fart apps and flashlights like I mean I
23:28mean eval evaluate it like in a couple
23:32years so like personally I think it's
23:34gonna be like probably the next 9 to 12
23:36months is going to be a time when
23:38everyone's still figuring it all out but
23:40it just takes time to develop good
23:43and and then that usually takes on the
23:46order like we look at the gaming space
23:48as the first market and like it takes 9
23:50to 12 months to make a good game like I
23:52don't know how long pokemons go took to
23:53make I imagine it was more than like
23:55three months that we've had for a arkad
23:56so like it will have its time it will
23:59just take time to develop how much time
24:03do you think putting on the spot there
24:06so again for content developers like
24:09understanding the gaming space which is
24:11where a lot of this stuff has been going
24:12I think that that's gonna take on the
24:14order of like nine months to a year as
24:16people are figuring out what are the
24:18right game mechanics so if you think
24:20about like it as a startup we need to
24:22care a lot about what is the next 12
24:24months look like what does the knife 18
24:26months look like well like larger
24:28companies can focus on what are the next
24:295-10 years look like because we need
24:31funding but tell me at werewolf by the
24:47way so then it's like more about what
24:54are the next 12 to 18 months look like
24:56and then I actually think like the first
24:58good games are gonna be coming out like
25:00next summer next fall that have like
25:03longer development title longer
25:06development cycles and then how those
25:08get developed so at least I would say my
25:11own personal prediction is for the
25:12mobile AR space I'm probably looking
25:15like next summer to next fall for some
25:18of the longer-term kind of repeat games
25:20unless there's like Harry Potter games
25:22that people been working on for a while
25:23so in terms of like headsets I view the
25:27first developer kits at least from here
25:29internally is like two and a half three
25:31years for them coming out like you're
25:33you'll hear some announcements for kind
25:36of and this is like for the bigger
25:37players like the Facebook's like maybe
25:39even apples of the world
25:40I mean magic leap I hope that they
25:42launch something soon otherwise are
25:43gonna tank to the whole AR market
25:46seriously like three-quarters of all
25:49investments in AR has been magic leap
25:51like they go down we're all screwed
25:54so I view like I missed that but I
26:01probably don't want to know but a view
26:05fairly consumer adoption of a our
26:06headsets probably on the order of even
26:08five years so okay awesome
26:11let's talk about the state of they are
26:13in general what is the state of AR today
26:17and why is it important and how does it
26:20work in terms of like paintball
26:25sorry stateful AR my stateful yes that
26:30so part of what what does stateful mean
26:33I mean part of augmented reality you
26:36have to kind of come there's there's two
26:37two parts of the to the answer one is
26:39more in the conceptual philosophical
26:41aspect is us as human how do we perceive
26:44reality those three things as matter
26:46time and space and then part of it
26:50organizing a lot of information is
26:52having a state that correlates to the
26:55digital world which would be the AR
26:57representation as part of that then the
27:00second part of the answer is more how do
27:01you then do this in terms of computer
27:04science so this first the definition
27:06more the conceptual level then more at
27:09the how do we actually make it happen so
27:12then backtracking a little bit what does
27:15time and space and matter mean in terms
27:18of a digital representation so time
27:21could mean synchronizing interactions
27:23across the present or the future the
27:25past is sort of how you store your game
27:27state that could be one or more how you
27:29have a real-time game play like a
27:32shooting game and then space is very
27:35important for us to really understand
27:37the 3d space so then having things stick
27:39if you tell I don't know let's say you
27:41build a game on you want to put like a
27:44digital plan it should state in that
27:46tape or a Fiji water bottle
27:48right so I mean part of it if you if you
27:52don't do that well having it stay there
27:54you break the illusion and the whole
27:56thing about the promise of AR is having
27:58this immersive experience so it part of
28:00it okay if I leave it there issues stay
28:02there I'm part of it okay come back and
28:04exit come back a couple weeks it's just
28:07so current solutions like AR KITT don't
28:11enable that so that's not stifle they
28:14are because the way the solution works
28:17is that it's just based on Jerusalem IDO
28:20me they did a good job with that but it
28:22only works in that current session and
28:25it's relative to that particular phone
28:27so if you have two phones even in the
28:28same space you're still missing the time
28:30synchronization and so that's missing
28:34and the space also because is their own
28:37representation with the old phone so
28:40it's missing those components and then
28:41we're dealing with multiple platforms to
28:43outcrop yeah this is just I Oh s so then
28:46it's missing all that so what we are
28:49building on is enabling the backend with
28:51a our infrastructure to enable time
28:53synchronization and space so remembering
28:57synchronizing game plays or experiences
29:00where they are so that you have multiple
29:02users sharing the same AR experience so
29:05that is what this is the only way we're
29:07gonna be able to have like multiplayer
29:08gaming which is kind of like the holy
29:10grail of sort of they are really we
29:13think about it like every phone has
29:14their own representation of the world or
29:17every headset so you can need to build
29:18it and then essentially but it's all of
29:21the same world like all of us interact
29:23with the same chairs everything else we
29:26all see it but then in the digital space
29:28you have all these different copies so
29:30it's kind of like having a version of
29:33everything like duplicated by the number
29:35of people so then that should all be
29:37condensed down into one having it work
29:39in a single phone or a single head so
29:40still rooted in reality it's not good
29:43enough it's not that much different
29:44aside than VR because it's still lonely
29:46you want to play with people together at
29:48the same time so a lot of this in terms
29:51of the technical challenges come with
29:53handling things with latency and then
29:55how do you take the copy of this reality
29:57here into a row and in a database and be
29:59able to retrieve it it back and forth
30:01and do it really quick across multiple
30:02devices and platforms so that you have a
30:05reality that works across phones and
30:10pretty tough problem yeah glad you guys
30:16oh yes so I believe one of the reasons
30:21we've had a couple of false starts too
30:23is that you know sometimes the like with
30:25VR we've got headsets that are there but
30:27the contents not there and maybe you can
30:30talk us through sort of like what are
30:32the challenges that designers and
30:33creatives have to even create this
30:35content they could even be stateful
30:36because we we don't even have a lot of
30:39the content yeah actually that's a great
30:41way to frame it so we're Escher's
30:44working on solving a problem most people
30:48don't know they have yet so the like you
30:50know when I first met these guys and I
30:53heard about their I was like yes of
30:54course that is a very hard technical
30:56problem and you know in my time it
30:59magically we we kind of lived in this
31:01world for a few years of this is already
31:04a possible technology as far as this 3d
31:08feeling like it's part of your physical
31:10world and once you get kind of past the
31:12mind-blown part of that like what I
31:14actually do with it that's useful and a
31:17value and so like in that ecosystem
31:21where where my company fits in is
31:24probably helping people think in 3d
31:27faster so they can more quickly realize
31:30they need their solution then then most
31:33people realize so so in other words like
31:35right now if you wanted to work in AR
31:38you're probably gonna go to a game
31:40engine and you like even you guys talked
31:41a lot about games right games the
31:43natural progression into what we're
31:46getting into because it's interactive 3d
31:47its real-time interactive 3d which is
31:50modern-day video games and the tech
31:53stack is coming from video games and I
31:56got into video games video game
31:58development to tim plus years ago
32:02because it was so technically
32:04challenging and and difficult and it is
32:09not something conducive to somebody that
32:11just has sort of a kooky AR idea that
32:15they want to what does it feel like to
32:17have a Fiji water bottle in the room
32:19well I don't need to have everyone see
32:20it at the same time just yet I just want
32:22to know me as a professional creative or
32:25as someone with an idea
32:28can I try that out and right now the
32:31answer is become a game developer
32:33essentially which is painful and
32:36expensive and then on top of that if
32:39even if you and a lot of people are
32:41hitting that wall you know we call it
32:42the brick wall of 3d right the this
32:44workflow is very difficult and then even
32:47if you manage to scale that wall then
32:49you get to the point where these guys
32:51are which is well I want you to be able
32:52to see the Fiji water ball in the same
32:54place that I see it and I don't want
32:55this like overly complicated user
32:59experience around I always want to be
33:01able to tell you everybody don't we see
33:02this virtual thing here so so we're
33:07we're looking at it is getting more
33:09people thinking about 3d computing at a
33:13much much more general level like the
33:15kind of like what you alluded to earlier
33:17which is this new frontier this third
33:20dimension where there's a we I think we
33:22all especially people here tonight since
33:25that there's a lot of untapped potential
33:28in that third dimension and we're all
33:31three-dimensional people that live in a
33:32three-dimensional world so why is it so
33:34hard for me to create a concept or or
33:37communicate a 3d concept virtually and
33:40so that's what our big focus is around
33:42is you know you see a lot of demos and
33:46stuff online and a lot of people that
33:48say like oh you know I can create a AR
33:50thing and three lines of code but to
33:52really package that up into a commercial
33:54quality what we call a product level
33:57experiences is still very very difficult
34:00to do so what we're looking at is in the
34:04ecosystem I agree with Ross's timeline
34:06by the way I think next year is gonna be
34:09a lot of experimentation and and a
34:11little bit deeper diving and and we're
34:13hoping to accelerate all that and so by
34:16removing the requirement of how do I
34:19learn a game engine how do I hire a game
34:21developer how do I teach my really
34:23talented UX designer to become a game
34:26developer can't they just grab a model
34:29from turbosquid or sketch for have and
34:32can't they pull in a 2d thing they made
34:34and just see it like why is that so hard
34:36and that's what we're we're hoping to
34:39and we said we talked a lot about
34:40unlocking for that reason and it seems
34:43like everyone I talked to would no
34:44matter what platform they're all hungry
34:46for content like yes so yes or not
34:49enough of it yeah so in that that is the
34:51ultimate blocker right the takes a long
34:55time to make a video game without a
34:56doubt a good one and it takes just as
35:00long as someone to learn that's for
35:01someone that already knows the workflow
35:03so we talk about content and we talk
35:07about lack of content and VR and AR you
35:09see a lot of game content and a lot of
35:11demo level content but not a lot of
35:13utility like these things are really
35:15gonna the the software and the
35:18experiences that are really gonna turn
35:19these into I must have this in my life
35:21every day you know I have I have a vive
35:25and a PC set up in my living room
35:26practically as an appliance like I can
35:29just turn it on and just use it and I
35:31don't use it every day why like why why
35:35can't I use it for work you know and I
35:36think you know York Ulis with - and I
35:40think people are exploring more outside
35:43of gaming kind of these initial demo
35:45experiences but what we're seeing is a
35:49lot of companies trying to figure out
35:51small medium businesses and large
35:53enterprises how does this affect my
35:55product roadmap and how does this affect
35:56my bottom line as an internal process
35:58that's why you see a lot of people talk
36:00about training and in education as the
36:04initial use cases but it's the the tech
36:06stack is hard to navigate for somebody
36:08that's not looking to do it as a
36:10becoming an aspiring game developer or
36:13comes from a game to that background and
36:15I think that's probably well that's what
36:18we believe is really holding back the
36:19lack of content in both ARNP are there's
36:22a lot of wearables out there and I know
36:25there's some wearable I saw it was like
36:28bring your own wearables party which was
36:30pretty awesome thank you for bringing
36:31them so what do you think the state of
36:33wearables are today and you know when
36:35are they going to be ubiquitous when are
36:36you gonna see everybody have them and
36:39and even more important do you think
36:41they're going to replace the cell phone
36:43well everything just depends on the
36:46timeline so we'll replace this on the
36:47cell phone just in what time frame I
36:49usually think even augmenting the cell
36:51phone so like you have an iPhone
36:53market and then you plug it into your
36:55headset up above and I could be
36:57everyone's first experience with
36:59augmented reality so it's not even
37:00replacing it's just adding on to I'm so
37:03it's kind of an extra feature on there
37:04so in terms of mm-hmm like sorry in
37:09terms of like the state of we're like
37:11augmented reality headsets are today
37:12like they're still at the beginning
37:14stages like the number of hollow lenses
37:17that are out there in the world like
37:18there aren't that many yet granted like
37:21that's the first version like you have
37:22like daiquiri ODG like it's all of the
37:26beginning stages but in terms of you
37:28need to solve the like Enterprise is
37:31usually where a lot of the kind of hard
37:33tech um kind of efforts will go for
37:36augmented reality in the beginning so
37:39then figuring out what are the exact
37:40problems that they're solving so I think
37:42there's this little bit of a problem in
37:44the augmented reality community right
37:46now that's preventing some stuff that
37:48people are kind of thinking about AR for
37:50AR sake like you go to some AR meetups
37:53and people talk about oh here all the
37:55problems for AR but it still is one step
37:57removed from here's like the customer
37:59like that's doing something one way and
38:02here's how they do it a new way okay you
38:03have it for like training you have it
38:05for the beginnings of visualization like
38:07the IKEA app I mean I personally believe
38:10that the first killer app of augmented
38:12reality headsets is gonna be computer
38:13screens so like at least in our place it
38:17looks like well they look like regular
38:18computer screens or will they be in the
38:19new sort of UI at the beginning because
38:22everything is incremental that will be
38:24in regular computer screens like right
38:26now we have one of our employees he has
38:28like six different monitors all lined up
38:31and then it's like essentially like a
38:33dome around his head and like imagine
38:35replacing that like probably three
38:37thousand dollars of like computer
38:39screens with one $3,000 headset like I
38:41can totally see that and then having but
38:43it needs to be wild field of view nice
38:46resolution like no tracking error on and
38:49then okay you need to be able to show
38:51someone else the same computer screen
38:52and show the same state so like there's
38:55still a lot of problems to get in there
38:56so for wearable headsets I mean I still
38:59put that as in the short term maybe like
39:02two to three years for enterprise I
39:05don't I haven't studied that quite as
39:07the rate of adoption there is a question
39:09but for consumer IP that's probably five
39:12years at the earliest for the like
39:15beginning of adoption for you to see
39:17like someone walking around and then
39:19it's not like Google has really like
39:20haha sorry if there any early I was I
39:27have to sorry but yeah I would say for
39:34headsets probably in the five to ten
39:36years is my expectation but I mean it's
39:39always hard to predict the future the
39:41best thing to do is created and there's
39:42great companies that are in here
39:44creating that future who hopefully can
39:45do it sooner awesome well I'm gonna open
39:48it up to questions cuz we're out of time
39:51for panel but thank you you guys
39:57hopefully we have to stay put John and
40:00Phil can come back yeah you guys can
40:03stay put for a feature we might need to
40:13scoot down so that we're in the frame
40:14thank you I'm guessing there yeah
40:17hopefully there's lots of questions
40:19we've got some amazing people up here
40:21all right I think you should take this
41:10whoa no I don't think you should have
41:14you protection against that I think I
41:15every individual should be free to view
41:17the world and like however whatever form
41:20they want to see it so I mean if
41:21somebody wants to have a you know a
41:23snapchat filter that makes things look
41:25shiny and bright like they should be
41:26able to make them look shiny and bright
41:27if they want to make them look dark and
41:29gothic they should be able to make them
41:30look dark and gothic I kind of view it
41:32as an extension of that it's like what
41:34do you want to see what information do
41:36you want to see certainly I think that
41:38if I walk into a retail store if I'm
41:39going to check the price on Amazon my
41:41god I ought to be do that right I would
42:02I mean swimmers are gonna use all types
42:36me personally if I had an application it
42:40was pushing that crap into my eyes I
42:42would take it off I wouldn't want to see
42:45adidas if I was looking at Nike store
42:46that has no relevance to me right I
42:48think for for any ad to really be
42:51effective and this is why Adsense is so
42:53works so well is that it's
42:54context-sensitive right it understands
42:57what the question you're trying to ask
42:58and tries to give you alternatives to
43:00that question or alternative answers to
43:02the question you're trying to ask if you
43:05if you're just walking past Nike doesn't
43:07mean that you're actually looking for
43:08Nike Nike shoes you're just looking at
43:10this this facade right and if you get
43:13presented with something that overlays
43:14Nike with adidas I would turn that thing
43:17off and I would venture to guess that
43:18most people would I think personal
43:22identity is a is a really interesting
43:24question related to this which is if I
43:26want everyone here to see me as a
43:28unicorn because I identify as unicorn
43:30and you are like nope I'm not gonna see
43:32you as a unicorn and I refuse to see you
43:34as a unicorn I'm going to see you as I
43:36don't know a koala my koala work
43:44I think that's one of the challenges
44:31were going to face right it's figuring
44:32out what the answers to that question
44:48what I think the the dystopian cynic
44:57these devices are not gonna be cheap or
45:01easily accessible for a while so what if
45:03they're subsidized and so what if I have
45:05a really great AR headset that I paid a
45:08couple hundred bucks for because some
45:11search engine company or some company
45:13that has interest in selling advertising
45:15has subsidized it for me and then that
45:18you know I I agree to you know I I I've
45:21always taken the the stance of which
45:25probably all agree as a tech community
45:26be very transparent and the data we're
45:28collecting and and how we're using it
45:30and then I just don't assume we own it
45:32and let the user do it but the minute
45:34you subsidize a device or a technology
45:37we've already learned this very quickly
45:39even the past few years of social media
45:42you know we're the product and some of
45:44those the situations so I think I agree
45:47with the the the more pure take of it's
45:51just not a good user experience and I
45:53wouldn't want it but if you know someone
45:56that couldn't afford you know the latest
45:59and greatest device and they're looking
46:02at it through something subsidized
46:05that's one that becomes a lot blurrier
46:10yeah this is I apologize for opening
46:15there rather that's a hell of a subsidy
46:17yeah and why is that different drug in
46:47reality how does this change when it
46:49becomes decentralized from a mapping
46:52perspective it doesn't matter if you're
46:54statically spawning something like a
46:56focus stop or it's randomized value its
46:59dynamics one of those things if you
47:01don't directly control where do those
47:04things you love do you have the
47:06liability to remove things for that I
47:10mean that's fruits I was just basically
47:12saying hey if you're making products and
47:14you need to be thoughtful about the
47:15design choices you're making you know
47:16what kind of effect is this gonna have
47:18in the real world and how can you design
47:19to create a good experience for where
47:23it's gonna happen and all of the
47:24stakeholders that may be involved there
47:25I think it's incumbent upon all of us to
47:27do that because it is decentralized
47:28there's no central authority for what AR
47:31stuff is gonna exist in the world it's
47:33by definition like people can create
47:35this stuff that can live on an infinite
47:37number of servers and there can be an
47:38infinite variety of things that are
47:40going to get created all over the place
47:41for various reasons and we need to be
47:44mindful that as part designers and
47:47create good products that you know and
47:48think about side effects or things that
47:51could happen and try to
47:55today when I imagine augmented reality
47:58its you will never be able to trade
48:01enough requests like it we need a
48:02municipality there will be so many
48:04applications so many uses for this
48:06municipality we'll never be able to take
48:08down everything right a business owner
48:10will never be able to take down
48:12everything and so that's like how you
48:15know wondered about the societal impact
48:17of that I mean the difference thing here
48:20is like when the internet was being
48:21created there were no norms because it
48:23was something new that people hadn't
48:25really dealt with before right now
48:27there's a lot of kind of social baggage
48:29or social customs people have with this
48:32is my fenced area this is my property oh
48:35this is a park this is how it all looks
48:36so if you think about like cities that
48:38are a little bit more designed that you
48:40need permits for now if you can change
48:41them an AR it's changing a little bit of
48:45the social dynamic in which how people
48:46are thinking about how things have been
48:48done before and now if it can be changed
48:51quickly and then all this other stuff
48:52it's a lot more kind of its it kind of
48:58attacks people a little bit more if you
49:00want to put a harsh term on it because
49:02it's like no no no like my fence garden
49:05this is my Park here's how it all looks
49:06like and then ok if there's a whole
49:08Russian of people or things start to
49:10look different changed on like these
49:12different AR levels that's what I view
49:14the difference is from like how the
49:16internet was developed because it was
49:18kind of a wild one knew what norms were
49:20it took a decade or two to like really
49:22have that more settled in when wow what
49:25the physical world we know how to deal
49:27with it now we're changing that actually
49:29I think it all gets a lot clearer if you
49:31think of it more as like you know a pair
49:34of sunglasses or the music that you hear
49:36over your you know headphones as you're
49:39walking around in the world and it's a
49:40kind of filter it's a kind of
49:41augmentation that you choose we have
49:43analog equivalents for that you know and
49:45so it's really I would you know that's
49:47where I think that that's the right
49:49place conceptually to come from versus
49:52thinking of it as a atoms and place and
49:54it gets really weird and confusing but
49:56really it's about what you're putting
49:58into your mind as an individual and
50:00individuals have should have choice you
50:03know they should have the ability to
50:04choose that and control over that that's
50:05it that's kind of where I'm
50:11yes related to that the you know the
50:18creator of the wiki isn't actually in
50:20Portland and I he hasn't even thought
50:22about this 3d stuff yet and we talked
50:25about I think the wiki is an interesting
50:27model to look at and he's actually he's
50:30actually done a new version of the wiki
50:32which allows you to layer your latest
50:35version and it's decentralized this it
50:38looks like a single source of data but
50:39it's actually coming from multiple
50:41sources and so I think the wiki is an
50:43interesting model of like community
50:45moderated it's like yes someone
50:48originated this but as a as a society
50:51it's being edited together and yeah
50:54there's a prod there's a process there
50:56that might be interesting the key is
50:58including all the stakeholders right
50:59make sure that you include all the
51:01people who have were impacted by this in
51:04a conversation most of the time they'll
51:06just show up and yell at you but in the
51:11end they've had their voice
51:50well if you think about an augmented
51:52reality what is like the new thing
51:53that's different about it say from a
51:55game developers perspective it's like
51:57okay you have the same avatars you have
51:59like gameplay and everything else it's
52:00kind of what is the kind of object file
52:02of the world like normally in a digital
52:05context that's uploaded and if you want
52:07to do like a multiplayer game you just
52:09copy that digital file when you download
52:11the app the difference in a augmented
52:14reality world is that it's no file is
52:17actually like kind of stored when you
52:19download the app it's kind of built up
52:21based off of the environment so then
52:23from a like game developer perspective
52:25just thinking about on very simple terms
52:27like you just need to essentially create
52:29that what becomes a dynamic file that
52:32you need to kind of interact with it's
52:34kind of a high level way of thinking
52:35about it but then for kind of larger
52:37multiplayer you actually need to have
52:40like a kind of regular state of the
52:42world or a map just elaborate a bit more
52:45yeah right now I guess you could call it
52:47analogous we are in the single player
52:49state with what Eric it has released I
52:51mean to some extent and to get to more
52:55interesting applications and to really
52:57fulfill this promise the tools are not
52:59there and part of it is enabling this
53:02persistent yes yes persistent state and
53:08synchronization so time and space I mean
53:11that's what I mean you said you are game
53:14developer and that is that's how you
53:15gravitated towards as a product person I
53:17think those are the most interesting
53:18kinds of games but other kinds of games
53:20have different I mean they're
53:22appropriate for different situations and
53:23different people's tastes but to me it
53:25feels like the large-scale MMO is the
53:27most interesting ultimate evolution
53:30of games and then to transpose that into
53:32the real world is and that's why we're
53:34doing what we're doing because we think
53:34that's a super cool yeah yeah yeah
53:40so our game before Pokemon go ingress
53:42global game you know they're currently
53:46downloading people competing over a
53:47shared global state continuously 24/7
53:50there's a huge event in San Francisco
53:52this weekend where they'll be many
53:53thousands of them will be here in San
53:54Francisco competing over this shared
53:57state experience together out in the
53:58real world so those are super cool cuz
54:00they combined like real world social
54:02interactions with gaming yeah that's
54:08I'll put you on the bigger list if you
54:10are interested like the interesting
54:18thing about a are particularly err
54:19optical view through wearable AR is you
54:23just want other people to see what you
54:25see you may not even care like you may
54:27not say I want you to play this you know
54:30virtual chess game I just want you to go
54:31see what I see and like if you very
54:34quickly run into that and it goes back
54:37to the what I was seeing it like once
54:39you play with this tech enough and you
54:40feel like you've gotten past the
54:42mind-blown phase a little bit and you're
54:43like I want people to use this because
54:45it's cool you want so badly to people to
54:48see what you see this is a key piece
54:50what gives you something to talk about
54:52right oh my god you see that blue buddy
55:00to make it isolated yep you've been just
55:03four demos like earlier I mean well the
55:05daiquiri really great but like just
55:07having someone kind of go around and
55:09staring at the world it's like what are
55:12they doing we've actually seen a lot of
55:16crests of people who just want like
55:18something for demos of like can I just
55:20have an app that I can hold at my phone
55:22and see what a our headset is looking at
55:24because I have no idea to how to debug
55:26it all they're wearing it and so I
55:28actually think from enterprise
55:29applications there are like many
55:31different aspects but like you like even
55:34now we're not even at like the regular
55:36single-player it's kind of like an
55:39arcade game but then every time you walk
55:41away from it you unplug it and reset the
55:43yeah on so it's like just getting up to
55:45the next level that's always plugged in
55:48Matt you had a question right okay
56:44I mean there's kind of two different
56:50layers to that if you want to think
56:52about it from a technical perspective
56:53first one is like these can just well I
56:57guess the three of them so first one is
56:59just like what is the state of the world
57:01which is a little less on the AI side
57:02like AI is what is the right
57:04representation like how do you like make
57:06decisions about it kind of like okay if
57:09you search for something what type of
57:10results do you get that's more of an AI
57:12style problem so I think for a are like
57:15we're gonna see it is like one first
57:18with like sort of semantic knowledge so
57:20in the academic community there's kind
57:21of semantic mapping semantic
57:23understanding segmentation of the world
57:24which that just means like knowing a
57:27wall as a wall or knowing a floor as a
57:28floor rather than some raw plane that
57:32like it kind of makes this up so right
57:34now we're still in the very early days
57:35and then like later on beyond that is
57:38what can you do with it and what kind of
57:39information can you pull from the
57:41digital world like saying like okay
57:42tinder linkedin like it scares me like
57:45hell when facebook comes out what
57:46they're like facebook a are headset and
57:48like you can see everyone's profile and
57:51what they did like three years ago
57:52here's a memory of what this person did
57:54like but i think in terms of the AI
57:58phase for right now for a art it's on a
58:00little bit early and it still needs time
58:03to develop a little bit more of the
58:04fundamental infrastructure and it's
58:06gonna be more how do we flesh out some
58:08of that infrastructure I think in terms
58:10of understanding the semantics again
58:12walls wall floors floor I mean it does
58:33you start first understanding the
58:35geometric composition of the world
58:36without labeling that this geometric
58:39blob thing is a chair or a table and
58:42then given that you notice a chair a
58:44table what do you what do you do how do
58:47you build a let's say like an API that
58:49yep you want to feel like a optical
58:51Buster obstacle avoidance or some sort
58:53of digital pet that navigates through
58:55your room if it's in a couch you want
59:10one way I think about it is cut I mean I
59:13don't know many many things in the world
59:14maybe most things in world at this point
59:15have a sort of digital doppelganger you
59:18know like all of us do this building
59:19does the bus stop does the bus does like
59:22you know almost all the atoms that we
59:24touch a product like there's a digital
59:26you know there's digital information
59:28about it there's a digital service that
59:29it could be accessed in it is just a
59:32matter of it's a little awkward to do it
59:34today you could get out your phone you
59:35could scan something or type in a search
59:37or whatever go to the right web page and
59:39start looking up the bus schedule view
59:42ar is really just this kind of shortcut
59:44I mean it's almost a user interface
59:46thing of it's just connecting you to
59:47that digital version of the world that
59:48already exists out there but it makes it
59:50more immediately accessible and we're
59:52naturally accessible but I think that
59:54has an exponential effect on what you
59:56can do with it you know and how will
59:58lead our lives I think we have time for
01:00:01one more question by the way
01:00:27well if you think about what's new for a
01:00:30our gaming there's kind of two main kind
01:00:33of technical aspects that really change
01:00:35with it one is the position of like the
01:00:38kind of camera matters in the world so
01:00:39both in terms of like where you're
01:00:41walking in parks but also like where you
01:00:43are with like a like where the phone is
01:00:47in space like how do you draw with your
01:00:48phone with a our kid
01:00:50the second aspect is like the real world
01:00:52becomes content like we had one I always
01:00:56loved this example this one game
01:00:58developer working with us who designed a
01:01:00like game where you can mine color from
01:01:02the world so you can actually like use
01:01:03the real world as content on in terms of
01:01:06it so it's not just like GPS location
01:01:09it's not just phone location but also
01:01:10kind of taking in the map as we were
01:01:12talking about of the world and
01:01:14incorporating that
01:01:15so the third real aspect of augmented
01:01:19reality is kind of a little bit more
01:01:20fuzzy and emotional like it fulfills a
01:01:23fantasy for people like I'm at like
01:01:26seeing a Pokemon in the real world it
01:01:29kind of like for those five seconds like
01:01:31really fulfills a fantasy that makes the
01:01:33game more compelling than if that wasn't
01:01:35there in some cases
01:01:46this blend between I mean traditionally
01:01:49graphics computer graphics and computer
01:01:51vision have a very hard line in terms of
01:01:53the field so here really blends them
01:01:55together so you could take the video
01:01:58feed and treat that as the graphics to
01:02:01some extent you could create and
01:02:04transmute objects with real objects in
01:02:06the world like change them you could
01:02:08take patches of the world and treat them
01:02:10as texture so you could build I don't
01:02:12know like a digital chameleon and then
01:02:14it takes the patch of the carpet and
01:02:16becomes the carpet catcher or a
01:02:18transformer you could hide real world
01:02:21objects in your AR Bishan so kind of
01:02:23diminish reality so you could do all
01:02:25these funky things at the edge of
01:02:27graphics on the edge of computer vision
01:02:29I would I would kind of reiterate that a
01:02:33little bit back to the future not right
01:02:35now conversation expectations
01:02:38reconstruction and object recognition
01:02:39like they're necessary for a lot of this
01:02:42kind of AR fundamental stuff but to make
01:02:45that accessible to a creative game
01:02:47developer in a meaningful way
01:02:49is we don't necessarily know what all
01:02:52the possibilities are like but they're
01:02:55not only exposing that technology but
01:02:58then creating tools and workflows like
01:03:01game development for a long time has
01:03:04been very hard coated and meticulous and
01:03:08there is some discussion around his game
01:03:10ville am I gonna be become more like a
01:03:12dungeon master type of role where you're
01:03:16dealing with variable inputs and you
01:03:18still have to maintain a linear
01:03:20storyline somehow in a very arbitrary
01:03:22physical context and you know I think
01:03:25the only example I can think of off the
01:03:28maybe is fragments from hollow lands
01:03:30where they like had a character that
01:03:32would they sort of maybe recognize the
01:03:34chair and so the character would sit on
01:03:36a chair but like so we have so much
01:03:38further to go so I think as far as
01:03:40gaming telling a story that's
01:03:43contextually aware and responsive I
01:03:45think there's so much potential there
01:03:47but you've got to expose that to the
01:03:49creatives it's like for the for the
01:03:51really creative person the writer who
01:03:53game designer for them to be able to say
01:03:55well if there happened if we happen to
01:03:57be in the person's living room we could
01:03:58tell this scene and ice it gets so
01:04:01complex and we just don't have the tools
01:04:03yet to manage that yep yeah well next
01:04:19one is how do you take it out in the
01:04:20real world outside right we can bring
01:04:26technical limitations on that for a more
01:04:28we're all starting on a small level
01:04:29they're like oh yeah well I want to
01:04:36thank all of you for taking time out of
01:04:37your schedules I'm sorry for bombing the
01:04:39B question for us your reality which is
01:04:41about stateful AR and not the state of
01:04:43the art I've been sitting here like
01:04:49beating myself up for that I'm sorry
01:04:51guys and thanks everyone for coming and
01:04:54we're gonna have some more snacks and
01:04:56drinks afterwards so hopefully everyone
01:04:58will want to mingle for a little bit and
01:04:59then you know once we put together some
01:05:02video and stuff like that we'll we'll
01:05:04send it out to everybody thank you
